Wondering out loud: Which should Chinese miners support - Core, Classic or another? - page 18.

ShadowOfHarbringer

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Quote from: CIYAM on January 29, 2016, 12:27:56 PM

Quote from: ShadowOfHarbringer on January 29, 2016, 12:26:13 PM

FYI: Companies such as Bitpay, InPay, Coinbase, Purse.IO process tens of thousands of normal people's "normal transactions" every month. Are you arguing that we don't need that ?

I am not in dispute about the existence of such companies.

Yes you are. Perhaps you don't realize that.

Normal shops are probably never gonna bother with accepting Bitcoin directly, the same as they will not bother with accepting VISA or Mastercard directly. That's what payment processors are for.

So basically, by saying that "Bitcoin shouldn't be used for normal transactions" you are actually saying that all of these companies should go out of business. (because Bitcoin shouldn't be used for buying coffee or some other ridiculous thing).

EDIT:
Anyway, that is absolutely ridiculous argument and I hope you understand that this argument has no power in this discussion.
Please skip to the next one.

CIYAM

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Quote from: tAP on January 29, 2016, 12:28:22 PM

What kind of argument is that? I'm a teacher, I make less than 33k a year. I am hardly rich by my countries standards (I qualify for social assistance for the love of god). I buy my BTC through multiple sources. I also participate on Purse.io so that I actually DO help people in areas who can't buy BTC like me get BTC for rates cheaper than Localbitcoins.com.

If I concerned myself with every purchase I make, and how that would make someone who can't afford it feel, life wouldn't even be worth living. I don't reprimand people who make more money than me for buying a nicer car than I can afford... what?

If you really want to waste your BTC on coffee then that is up to you.

But it you really think that Bitcoin is more than just a PayPal replacement why on earth would you do that?

tAP

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Quote from: CIYAM on January 29, 2016, 12:22:41 PM

So - how did you get your BTC in order to buy coffees?

(are you paid in BTC for your work and if so how is that done?)

(you people that say that you have BTC to buy coffees are actually hated in the poor world where they have no BTC at all - so I hope you are proud of the fact that you make most poorer people feel sick when you complain that you can't buy coffee for BTC when they cannot even hope to get any BTC at all)

What kind of argument is that? I'm a teacher, I make less than 33k a year. I am hardly rich by my countries standards (I qualify for social assistance for the love of god). I buy my BTC through multiple sources. I also participate on Purse.io so that I actually DO help people in areas who can't buy BTC like me get BTC for rates cheaper than Localbitcoins.com.

If I concerned myself with every purchase I make, and how that would make someone who can't afford it feel, life wouldn't even be worth living. I don't reprimand people who make more money than me for buying a nicer car than I can afford... what?

CIYAM

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Ian Knowles - CIYAM Lead Developer

Quote from: ShadowOfHarbringer on January 29, 2016, 12:26:13 PM

FYI: Companies such as Bitpay, InPay, Coinbase, Purse.IO process tens of thousands of normal people's "normal transactions" every month. Are you arguing that we don't need that ?

I am not in dispute about the existence of such companies (which btw only convert BTC to USD so really aren't helping anything much at all).

None of the merchants using such companies are receiving BTC (they are just receiving USD).

ShadowOfHarbringer

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Quote from: CIYAM on January 29, 2016, 12:20:01 PM

I'm sorry - the image of some old, fat (possibly angry) woman is supposed to mean?

"whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat ?".

So, you are seriously claiming that nobody is using Bitcoin for "normal transactions" today ?

How did you even come with such a ridiculous argument ?

FYI: Companies such as Bitpay, InPay, Coinbase, Purse.IO process tens of thousands of normal people's "normal transactions" every month. Are you arguing that we don't need that ?

CIYAM

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Ian Knowles - CIYAM Lead Developer

So - how did you get your BTC in order to buy coffees?

(are you paid in BTC for your work and if so how is that done?)

(you people that say that you have BTC to buy coffees are actually hated in the poor world where they have no BTC at all - so I hope you are proud of the fact that you make most poorer people feel sick when you complain that you can't buy coffee for BTC when they cannot even hope to get any BTC at all)

tAP

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Quote from: knight22 on January 29, 2016, 12:20:49 PM

Please provide evidences of that claim because that seems to be only assumptions (I, for one, use bitcoin for normal txs and expect to increase my usage over time).

Thank you. Likewise.

oakpacific

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Quote from: canth on January 29, 2016, 12:13:27 PM

Quote from: oakpacific on January 29, 2016, 11:36:09 AM

Then, I guess, perhaps we could agree that, hard fork the network with the support of just 6 pool operators, and one month "grace period", while completely disregarding the response of the network of full nodes at the time, like what the Bitcoin Classic people are very clear about what they are trying to do, is very undemocratic and should not be supported?

If the pool operators were the only ones interested in >1MB blocks then this would fail since most users and merchants would reject their larger blocks. this is not the case however...these companies are supporting it too:

Coinbase
OKCoin
Bitstamp
Blockchain.info (Peter Smith)
Xapo
Bitcoin.com
Foldapp
Bread Wallet
Snapcard.io
Cubits
Vaultoro
Coinify
Bitso
Bitnet
BitOasis
Lamassu
BlockCypher
BitQuick.co
itBit
BitAccess
Coinfinity
Chronos Crypto

How are companies, most of them centralized services, even supposed to be in this argument bewilders me. They have no place in Bitcoin's original design, and they don't add anything to the democratic value of the whole hard fork campaign, I hope you don't think their support are nearly as good as a real referendum being held? Heck we don't even have any idea how much they account for all the Bitcoin business activities!

tAP

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Quote from: ShadowOfHarbringer on January 29, 2016, 12:18:57 PM

Quote from: CIYAM on January 29, 2016, 12:06:15 PM

No-one is using Bitcoin for normal txs

Is this even supposed to be a serious argument ? Enlighten me, because I really don't know how to take this.

Maybe I am in the minority but I use Bitcoin for as many transactions as I can. Anything I can buy with Bitcoin, I do. It's not spam, either as Luke JR would have people believe. Just because you buy coffee doesn't make it spam because it's less than 100 bucks. What's the cap on spam? If I spend 200 is it spam? 1000? When am I no longer 'spamming?'

I'm certainly not paying EXTRA fees to use SIDECHAINS to do my normal purchases that Bitcoin blockchain is more than capable of handling.

knight22

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--------------->¿?

Quote from: CIYAM on January 29, 2016, 12:06:15 PM

Quote from: tAP on January 29, 2016, 12:00:50 PM

Whether or not we should adopt a 2MB block size increase ASAP, or not - and good, logical reasons to support each side.

I see zero logical reason to do that.

No-one is using Bitcoin for normal txs and that isn't going to change this year or next year.

A small group of people are trying to "take over the project" by pushing about this need for everyone to be able to use Bitcoin to buy "coffee".

Please provide evidences of that claim because that seems to be only assumptions (I, for one, use bitcoin for normal txs and expect to increase my usage over time).

CIYAM

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Ian Knowles - CIYAM Lead Developer

I'm sorry - the image of some old, fat (possibly angry) woman is supposed to mean?

tAP

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Quote from: watashi-kokoto on January 29, 2016, 12:14:11 PM

Quote from: ShadowOfHarbringer on January 29, 2016, 11:11:25 AM

Sorry, my mistake.

These two are only strongly affiliated with blockstream. Not employees.

I will have proof in a minute, working really hard here.

A Ty jaką masz wymówkę, by nie wychodzić z piwnicy?

LOL always so personal on this forum

ShadowOfHarbringer

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Quote from: CIYAM on January 29, 2016, 12:06:15 PM

No-one is using Bitcoin for normal txs

Is this even supposed to be a serious argument ? Enlighten me, because I really don't know how to take this.

CIYAM

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Ian Knowles - CIYAM Lead Developer

Okay - well I am lost with the trolling (and being accused of being a troll) and the supposed stats and the rest of it.

If you'd like to start a reasonable conversation then I can do that (and I can do that in English).

ShadowOfHarbringer

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Quote from: watashi-kokoto on January 29, 2016, 12:14:11 PM

Quote from: ShadowOfHarbringer on January 29, 2016, 11:11:25 AM

Sorry, my mistake.

These two are only strongly affiliated with blockstream. Not employees.

I will have proof in a minute, working really hard here.

A Ty jaką masz wymówkę, by nie wychodzić z piwnicy?

I don't have time for this offtopic.

Also, this discussion is in english.

watashi-kokoto

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Quote from: ShadowOfHarbringer on January 29, 2016, 11:11:25 AM

Sorry, my mistake.

These two are only strongly affiliated with blockstream. Not employees.

I will have proof in a minute, working really hard here.

A Ty jaką masz wymówkę, by nie wychodzić z piwnicy?

canth

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Quote from: oakpacific on January 29, 2016, 11:36:09 AM

Then, I guess, perhaps we could agree that, hard fork the network with the support of just 6 pool operators, and one month "grace period", while completely disregarding the response of the network of full nodes at the time, like what the Bitcoin Classic people are very clear about what they are trying to do, is very undemocratic and should not be supported?

If the pool operators were the only ones interested in >1MB blocks then this would fail since most users and merchants would reject their larger blocks. this is not the case however...these companies are supporting it too:

Coinbase
OKCoin
Bitstamp
Blockchain.info (Peter Smith)
Xapo
Bitcoin.com
Foldapp
Bread Wallet
Snapcard.io
Cubits
Vaultoro
Coinify
Bitso
Bitnet
BitOasis
Lamassu
BlockCypher
BitQuick.co
itBit
BitAccess
Coinfinity
Chronos Crypto

tAP

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Quote from: CIYAM on January 29, 2016, 12:08:42 PM

If you just can't understand the basic things and think that Bitcoin will somehow compete with VISA if it is increased to 2MB or 20MB then I think you need to either get some extra education or just stop posting nonsense.

You have to be a troll. There is no other explanation. We literally just talked about being done with personal attacks, and once I bring up a good point, there you go again. Incorrigible.

Not ONCE did I mention Visa.

ShadowOfHarbringer

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Quote from: CIYAM on January 29, 2016, 12:11:58 PM

Quote from: ShadowOfHarbringer on January 29, 2016, 12:10:24 PM

Quote from: CIYAM on January 29, 2016, 11:58:03 AM

So what is exactly the percentage of Core Devs that work for Blockstream?

(I guess this should be the key issue here)

Correct.

Proceeding with developer list. Please note the metric used (number of commits) is far from perfect:
#1 laanwj1, 205 commits
#2 sipa 640 commits
#3 gavinandresen 484 commits
#4 theuni 330 commits
#5 TheBlueMatt 288 commits
#6 jonasschnelli 223 commits
#7 luke-jr 199 commits
#8 gmaxwell 133 commits
#9 fanquake 117 commits
#10 MarcoFalke 112 commits
#11 jtimon 106 commits
#12 petertodd 91 commits
#13 cozz 70 commits
#14 sdaftuar 65 commits
#15 morcos 55 commits

That does not show who works for Blockstream - so is there another post I am waiting for from you?

Sorry, my mistake - the bold ones are from Blockstream.

Better version from reddit (pasted above):
https://i.imgur.com/jM6oxr3.png

CIYAM

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Ian Knowles - CIYAM Lead Developer

Quote from: ShadowOfHarbringer on January 29, 2016, 12:10:24 PM

Quote from: CIYAM on January 29, 2016, 11:58:03 AM

So what is exactly the percentage of Core Devs that work for Blockstream?

(I guess this should be the key issue here)

Correct.

Proceeding with developer list. Please note the metric used (number of commits) is far from perfect:
#1 laanwj1, 205 commits
#2 sipa 640 commits
#3 gavinandresen 484 commits
#4 theuni 330 commits
#5 TheBlueMatt 288 commits
#6 jonasschnelli 223 commits
#7 luke-jr 199 commits
#8 gmaxwell 133 commits
#9 fanquake 117 commits
#10 MarcoFalke 112 commits
#11 jtimon 106 commits
#12 petertodd 91 commits
#13 cozz 70 commits
#14 sdaftuar 65 commits
#15 morcos 55 commits

That does not show who works for Blockstream - so is there another post I am waiting for from you?

Topic: Wondering out loud: Which should Chinese miners support - Core, Classic or another? - page 18. (Read 38093 times)