[Work in progess] Burnins Avalon Chip to mining board service - page 114.

Tursk

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Quote from: dani on July 16, 2013, 12:40:43 PM

Anyone thought about a suitable PSU? I'm looking around for a cheap 80+Gold single rail PSU that can handle 700-1000 Watt (will use two of them), any recommendations? I don't care about noise, I'd buy a turbine if it's cheap and efficient. I'll make sure that the load never exceeds 70%, so any brandmark should do.
Single rail is obviously the best for me because I cannot mess up anything Grin

I bought Corsair AX760 to power up my six upcoming Bitburner XXs. 80plus Platinum, modular cabling, 6x6pin PCI-E etc. It isn't cheap, but has right amount of PCI-E connectors. 92% power efficiency keeps it cool and electricity bill is at least a little smaller than with 80plus Gold PSU.

http://www.corsair.com/en/power-supply-units/ax-series-power-supply-units/ax760-atx-power-supply-760-watt-80-plus-platinum-certified-fully-modular-psu.html

dani

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..yeah

Anyone thought about a suitable PSU? I'm looking around for a cheap 80+Gold single rail PSU that can handle 700-1000 Watt (will use two of them), any recommendations? I don't care about noise, I'd buy a turbine if it's cheap and efficient. I'll make sure that the load never exceeds 70%, so any brandmark should do.
Single rail is obviously the best for me because I cannot mess up anything Grin

Micky25

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^ +1

SebastianJu

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Legendary Escrow Service - Tip Jar in Profile

Quote from: robix on July 16, 2013, 11:55:56 AM

@burnin

When you launch your shop, I think it would be wise to disable the order button in the beginning for a certain time (1 or 2 days), so that all the guys can have a look at the offering, the different items and how to combine them. That would prevent possible wrong orders done in a hectic rush and also the trouble you would have to correct the orders. When questions arise you can answer them in advance.

Just my thoughts.

Thats a great idea since burnin already stated that he will give out a warning about the opening of the shop 24 hours before. When he opens the shop with buying disabled everyone has 24h to calculate and maybe even prepare the basket.

robix

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@burnin

When you launch your shop, I think it would be wise to disable the order button in the beginning for a certain time (1 or 2 days), so that all the guys can have a look at the offering, the different items and how to combine them. That would prevent possible wrong orders done in a hectic rush and also the trouble you would have to correct the orders. When questions arise you can answer them in advance.

Just my thoughts.

cimpex

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maybe there is a small temp. difference inside the avalon chip at the IC between AC and WC -> same surface temps but different performance. if an IC is working at his limit just a few degree will matter.

SebastianJu

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@burnin... I believe Klondikes can only be highervolted with changes on the board. For example other parts soldered in. Is it different with your design? Easily doable without soldering?

And can you tell what fans are used so i know what quality they are, air volume per hour and so on...

What do you think about BKKCoins problems with noise that leads to higher error rates. Do you expect that he will get similar results when he suppressed the noise with ferrite beads?

nemercry

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Vice versa is not a meal.

Quote from: Schrankwand on July 16, 2013, 09:30:59 AM

Quote

434 - 57, 31, 1.28V, 82W, 4% hw errors means 434 Mhz - 17.36Mhz(434*0.04Hwerrors) = 416.64 Mhz (actual usable speed with WC)
434 - 57, 52, 1.28, 82W, 10% hw errors means 434 - 43(434*0.1Hwerrors) = 390.6 Mhz(actual usable speed with AC)

And that means, the choice here is between:

434 - 57, 31, 1.28V, 82W, 4% hw errors means 434 Mhz - 17.36Mhz(434*0.04Hwerrors) = 416.64 Mhz

and 409 - 56.5, 51, 1.28, 77W, stable

If you already have everything in place, I doubt you need the water blocks. But if you ask me, that means that I am going to buy a 7mh/s increase for 15€ per board with additional costs of about 200€ per 10-16 boards.

Im not sure that is worth it.

Lets see what happens if burnin highers the voltage. As you can see in the AC chart, there are volt settings which cause much more errors, than a little higher on. And while the AC cooling still is on its limit. WC could still be able to manage the 250 with little less, no or the same amount of hw errors than the 434 stage. Due that the board is much cooler than with AC.

For example:
409 - 55, 48.5, 1.25, 2% errors
409 - 56.5, 51, 1.28, 77W, stable
on AC

Could be the same as
434 - 57, 31, 1.28V, 82W, 4% hw errors
(MAYBE, not a real value!)450 - 57, 31, 1.3V, 82W, 0% hw errors

It could be possible because the board itself is significantly colder than with ac. In this case it should be a good roi for the difference in hashrate.(But to be honest its more a thought than a real expectation = ])

menace_one

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Quote from: fiktionist on July 16, 2013, 09:55:31 AM

iam pretty sure, if you would raise the voltage to 1,35v (which should not really be a problem at 110nm) and keep it cool on water 450mhz must be reachable

yes probably no problem for 110nm chips, but I'm not sure about the voltage regulators.

Covers the Waterblock also the VRs? On GPUs is that very important.

fiktionist

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iam pretty sure, if you would raise the voltage to 1,35v (which should not really be a problem at 110nm) and keep it cool on water 450mhz must be reachable

Schrankwand

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Quote from: ewibit on July 16, 2013, 09:34:43 AM

Quote from: Schrankwand on July 16, 2013, 09:30:59 AM

If you already have everything in place, I doubt you need the water blocks. But if you ask me, that means that I am going to buy a 7mh/s increase for 15€ per board with additional costs of about 200€ per 10-16 boards.

Im not sure that is worth it.

how big (and valuable) is the difference of the noise?

I can't tell, since I don't know what kind of fans you need.

If we were talking the sound of my Gigabyte 7970 vs watercooling : Watercooling all the way.

If I can use Akasa 120mm silent fans to get the cooling I want: Fuck that.

ewibit

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Quote from: Schrankwand on July 16, 2013, 09:30:59 AM

If you already have everything in place, I doubt you need the water blocks. But if you ask me, that means that I am going to buy a 7mh/s increase for 15€ per board with additional costs of about 200€ per 10-16 boards.

Im not sure that is worth it.

how big (and valuable) is the difference of the noise?

Schrankwand

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Quote

434 - 57, 31, 1.28V, 82W, 4% hw errors means 434 Mhz - 17.36Mhz(434*0.04Hwerrors) = 416.64 Mhz (actual usable speed with WC)
434 - 57, 52, 1.28, 82W, 10% hw errors means 434 - 43(434*0.1Hwerrors) = 390.6 Mhz(actual usable speed with AC)

And that means, the choice here is between:

434 - 57, 31, 1.28V, 82W, 4% hw errors means 434 Mhz - 17.36Mhz(434*0.04Hwerrors) = 416.64 Mhz

and 409 - 56.5, 51, 1.28, 77W, stable

If you already have everything in place, I doubt you need the water blocks. But if you ask me, that means that I am going to buy a 7mh/s increase for 15€ per board with additional costs of about 200€ per 10-16 boards.

Im not sure that is worth it.

nemercry

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Activity: 339

Merit: 250

Vice versa is not a meal.

Quote from: ecliptic on July 16, 2013, 08:20:41 AM

Quote from: ummas on July 16, 2013, 06:35:14 AM

I`m in with WC.
AC will be noissy. With WC i can put hest whre ever i need/wont.
We know nothing about lifetime of the chip. We know it works for 6 mounths with no OC. But what about after
OC?
AVALONS can be oc`ed for haw long, month or so?
I`ll better pay little bit more and stay safe.
Pmps, radioators and all the stff i have alredy,

Huh? Based on burnin's numbers, 372 MHz is the limit for Vcore = 1.2V, regardless of cooling method. Water cooling is only slightly cooler (50C vs 54C).

Watercooling's only advantage is it would be quieter

and actually, cgminer's temps are basically useless on water.. they're all 30, even when the chip itself is getting hotter

What do you mean with useless on water? I dont get your explanation could you try this in more detail ?

Still does the board with the cooler temperature has slighty less errors. I think errors does mean, that the board answer back with wrong or non nonces, what should mean that the calculated hashes are wrong or not existing. So i would assume that
434 - 57, 31, 1.28V, 82W, 4% hw errors means 434 Mhz - 17.36Mhz(434*0.04Hwerrors) = 416.64 Mhz (actual usable speed with WC)
434 - 57, 52, 1.28, 82W, 10% hw errors means 434 - 43(434*0.1Hwerrors) = 390.6 Mhz(actual usable speed with AC)
[im not sure if this behaves linear but i take it as assumption.]

If WC would have zero effect on the boards, there should be no drop at the hw rates.
But there are drops in errors, even they are low. But they could be low because of the fact, that the reason of the hw errors does not effectively lies in the chips but instead in the heat of the sourrounding components of the board.

madmax_ger

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Quote from: ecliptic on July 16, 2013, 08:20:41 AM

Quote from: ummas on July 16, 2013, 06:35:14 AM

I`m in with WC.
AC will be noissy. With WC i can put hest whre ever i need/wont.
We know nothing about lifetime of the chip. We know it works for 6 mounths with no OC. But what about after OC?
AVALONS can be oc`ed for haw long, month or so?
I`ll better pay little bit more and stay safe.
Pmps, radioators and all the stff i have alredy,

Huh? Based on burnin's numbers, 372 MHz is the limit for Vcore = 1.2V, regardless of cooling method. Water cooling is only slightly cooler (50C vs 54C).

Watercooling's only advantage is it would be quieter

and actually, cgminer's temps are basically useless on water.. they're all 30, even when the chip itself is getting hotter

perhaps the WC guys should start thinking about downcooling water Wink

what about putting the radiator / mora in a fridge? Tongue

ecliptic

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Activity: 322

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Quote from: ummas on July 16, 2013, 06:35:14 AM

I`m in with WC.
AC will be noissy. With WC i can put hest whre ever i need/wont.
We know nothing about lifetime of the chip. We know it works for 6 mounths with no OC. But what about after OC?
AVALONS can be oc`ed for haw long, month or so?
I`ll better pay little bit more and stay safe.
Pmps, radioators and all the stff i have alredy,

Huh? Based on burnin's numbers, 372 MHz is the limit for Vcore = 1.2V, regardless of cooling method. Water cooling is only slightly cooler (50C vs 54C).

Watercooling's only advantage is it would be quieter

and actually, cgminer's temps are basically useless on water.. they're all 30, even when the chip itself is getting hotter

nemercry

sr. member

Activity: 339

Merit: 250

Vice versa is not a meal.

Quote from: ummas on July 16, 2013, 06:35:14 AM

I`m in with WC.
AC will be noissy. With WC i can put hest whre ever i need/wont.
We know nothing about lifetime of the chip. We know it works for 6 mounths with no OC. But what about after OC?
AVALONS can be oc`ed for haw long, month or so?
I`ll better pay little bit more and stay safe.
Pmps, radioators and all the stff i have alredy,

Does not sound bad at all. @Burnin: Do you have tried to cool the other components too with some air cooling ? Maybe you could reach 450MHZ with extra air cooling on the left components while using watercooling on the chips.

ummas

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Activity: 274

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I`m in with WC.
AC will be noissy. With WC i can put hest whre ever i need/wont.
We know nothing about lifetime of the chip. We know it works for 6 mounths with no OC. But what about after OC?
AVALONS can be oc`ed for haw long, month or so?
I`ll better pay little bit more and stay safe.
Pmps, radioators and all the stff i have alredy,

Schrankwand

full member

Activity: 224

Merit: 100

Thanks Burnin.

I will in fact not go for water cooling thanks to your tests, the additional cooling and mh/s ratio is not worth it for me. Also for the newer values calculated.

f.baasch75

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Activity: 77

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really impressive, really brilliant!

Topic: [Work in progess] Burnins Avalon Chip to mining board service - page 114. (Read 624197 times)