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Topic: [Work in progess] Burnins Avalon Chip to mining board service - page 111. (Read 624200 times)

hero member
Activity: 1232
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Yesterday the first chinese chip-preorder guys received their chips, so we should see some chips outside of china in the next two weeks hopefully. Prepare for massive impact  Cool

What? Where? When? Do you have a source for this information? Link? I wonder why this didn't cause massive enthusiasm in this thread, looks like it got overread. Or I am misinterpreting things. So please clarify.

I think they are refering to this post? not sure...

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/april-15-chips-arrive-258231


That's todays post. Yesterday some Russian company received Avalon chips to their warehouse in China:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.2739962

Thanks for the links, guys. Look like the game is on. WOOO-HOOOOH ! Soo excited !! (<- this happens rarely  Wink). But... Woooooo-hoooooh again!  Cool
member
Activity: 92
Merit: 10

Yesterday the first chinese chip-preorder guys received their chips, so we should see some chips outside of china in the next two weeks hopefully. Prepare for massive impact  Cool

What? Where? When? Do you have a source for this information? Link? I wonder why this didn't cause massive enthusiasm in this thread, looks like it got overread. Or I am misinterpreting things. So please clarify.

I think they are refering to this post? not sure...

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/april-15-chips-arrive-258231


That's todays post. Yesterday some Russian company received Avalon chips to their warehouse in China:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.2739962
newbie
Activity: 42
Merit: 0

Yesterday the first chinese chip-preorder guys received their chips, so we should see some chips outside of china in the next two weeks hopefully. Prepare for massive impact  Cool

What? Where? When? Do you have a source for this information? Link? I wonder why this didn't cause massive enthusiasm in this thread, looks like it got overread. Or I am misinterpreting things. So please clarify.

I think they are refering to this post? not sure...

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/april-15-chips-arrive-258231
hero member
Activity: 1232
Merit: 516

Yesterday the first chinese chip-preorder guys received their chips, so we should see some chips outside of china in the next two weeks hopefully. Prepare for massive impact  Cool

What? Where? When? Do you have a source for this information? Link? I wonder why this didn't cause massive enthusiasm in this thread, looks like it got overread. Or I am misinterpreting things. So please clarify.
sr. member
Activity: 243
Merit: 250
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afaik the klondike is even more susceptible to this because all 16 chips are organized in one chain.

Are you sure about this? Im pretty sure BKKCoins wrote that he changed this. So that the board can run with one chip alone too. If chips break all other chips remain working. But i might misunderstood this.


I think that all boards basically support running on only one chip, thats how they were able to test them without receiving all sample chips in the beginning. But, if you add chips after, then they become part of the natural chain and delivers together. (thus breaking the chain if one breaks before a working chip).
Also, the percentages of broken chips should be very low.


My bad, must have overlooked that bkkcoin now also has also 2 chains.


I thought the overclocking test was done with a fully assembled board and the production voltage regulator. So is it possible to run a bitburner XX at 450MHz and 1.3V?

Yes, the test was done with the fully populated (20 Chips) board.
Regarding the switcher:
The semiconductors are designed for 80Amps output current, but the inductors only for 60Amps.
And as long as those don't exceed their maximum temperature everything is fine, i measured their surface at 60°C at 94 Watts Input.
(The limit being 125°C)

the avalon datasheet stats 2^32-1 as maximum clockrate.
Correct, 450Mhz is not the end of the line.

1.8V - nice!
Are the fans regulated by temperature/cgminer? Will they cost extra? (I guess they are included in the stacking kit).
Can you give some datasheets about the voltage regulator? I want to use one bitburner to push the chips to their maximum, with sufficient cooling. I'm talking about 450mhz+ and as much voltage as needed. This should be fun (don't worry, I won't complain if it breaks though  Cheesy). Also can you just resolder a bigger voltage regulator by hand and overclock even more this way? Can you deactivate One row of chips? This way you could go for pertty much insane clocks and voltages and if anything breaks you can go back to a safer value and use the other 10 chip row  Cool

Yesterday the first chinese chip-preorder guys received their chips, so we should see some chips outside of china in the next two weeks hopefully. Prepare for massive impact  Cool
Applying 1.8V will definitely kill the chips, 1.4-1.5V could be feasible though.
Fans are included in the "all inclusive" package.
Each row of chips can be shut down individually by the firmware, I might do a max clock test with a single row.
You'd need to flash a custom firmware to do that.
member
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the avalon datasheet stats 2^32-1 as maximum clockrate.
member
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i am excited about all those overclocking possibilities... but i also think that 450mhz might be pretty close to the end of the line.
on the other hand, i had some cpus on hand which made more than 4ghz, while having a stock frequency of 1.8ghz...

More voltage solves nearly any problem Cheesy

450MHz IS the end of the line. Thats the clockcap per design of the chips.

oh Cheesy well then ...
sr. member
Activity: 339
Merit: 250
Vice versa is not a meal.
One module is about 45mm high with heatsink, 92mm fan.
Much higher OC would be possible with the 10 Chip version because it can supply the whole 60 Amps to 10 chips.
At 450Mhz the 20 chip modules are already close to the power limit of the voltage regulators .
Probably already exceeding the 60 Amps design spec but with good cooling they should be able to push up to 80 Amps.
The upper voltage limit is 1.8 Volts  Shocked.

I thought the overclocking test was done with a fully assembled board and the production voltage regulator. So is it possible to run a bitburner XX at 450MHz and 1.3V?

Read the thread more carefully please.
Why shouldnt it be able to set a higher clock on the Avalon chips ? Could you explain how and why the chip should be locked to a 450 mhz frequency ?

edit: The 450 mhz clock cap was a statement from the avalon designer yifu. But all he said was " the number youre looking for is 450".
Maybe its the max what it is originally designed for, but well see.
legendary
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afaik the klondike is even more susceptible to this because all 16 chips are organized in one chain.

Are you sure about this? Im pretty sure BKKCoins wrote that he changed this. So that the board can run with one chip alone too. If chips break all other chips remain working. But i might misunderstood this.


I think that all boards basically support running on only one chip, thats how they were able to test them without receiving all sample chips in the beginning. But, if you add chips after, then they become part of the natural chain and delivers together. (thus breaking the chain if one breaks before a working chip).
Also, the percentages of broken chips should be very low.

Ok, then its sure that the designs will behave similar when a chip breaks.
I didnt hear much about breaking chips too but this might change with overclocking.
sr. member
Activity: 294
Merit: 250
afaik the klondike is even more susceptible to this because all 16 chips are organized in one chain.

Are you sure about this? Im pretty sure BKKCoins wrote that he changed this. So that the board can run with one chip alone too. If chips break all other chips remain working. But i might misunderstood this.


I think that all boards basically support running on only one chip, thats how they were able to test them without receiving all sample chips in the beginning. But, if you add chips after, then they become part of the natural chain and delivers together. (thus breaking the chain if one breaks before a working chip).
Also, the percentages of broken chips should be very low.
legendary
Activity: 2674
Merit: 1083
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afaik the klondike is even more susceptible to this because all 16 chips are organized in one chain.

Are you sure about this? Im pretty sure BKKCoins wrote that he changed this. So that the board can run with one chip alone too. If chips break all other chips remain working. But i might misunderstood this.

Setting the Frequency is easily done through the cgminer Avalon frequency config parameter.
Voltage will be done through a config parameter as well.

Great!

Fan size: 92mm 55CFM, 32dBa, 3000rpm.

Can the fans not be ordered but the heatsink? In case i will buy a stronger fan for a datacentre, where the noise doesnt care?

One module is about 45mm high with heatsink, 92mm fan.
Much higher OC would be possible with the 10 Chip version because it can supply the whole 60 Amps to 10 chips.
At 450Mhz the 20 chip modules are already close to the power limit of the voltage regulators .
Probably already exceeding the 60 Amps design spec but with good cooling they should be able to push up to 80 Amps.
The upper voltage limit is 1.8 Volts  Shocked.

I thought the overclocking test was done with a fully assembled board and the production voltage regulator. So is it possible to run a bitburner XX at 450MHz and 1.3V?
legendary
Activity: 2674
Merit: 1083
Legendary Escrow Service - Tip Jar in Profile
i am excited about all those overclocking possibilities... but i also think that 450mhz might be pretty close to the end of the line.
on the other hand, i had some cpus on hand which made more than 4ghz, while having a stock frequency of 1.8ghz...

More voltage solves nearly any problem Cheesy

450MHz IS the end of the line. Thats the clockcap per design of the chips.
member
Activity: 72
Merit: 10
i am excited about all those overclocking possibilities... but i also think that 450mhz might be pretty close to the end of the line.
on the other hand, i had some cpus on hand which made more than 4ghz, while having a stock frequency of 1.8ghz...

More voltage solves nearly any problem Cheesy
hero member
Activity: 525
Merit: 500
..yeah
1.8V - nice!
Are the fans regulated by temperature/cgminer? Will they cost extra? (I guess they are included in the stacking kit).
Can you give some datasheets about the voltage regulator? I want to use one bitburner to push the chips to their maximum, with sufficient cooling. I'm talking about 450mhz+ and as much voltage as needed. This should be fun (don't worry, I won't complain if it breaks though  Cheesy). Also can you just resolder a bigger voltage regulator by hand and overclock even more this way? Can you deactivate One row of chips? This way you could go for pertty much insane clocks and voltages and if anything breaks you can go back to a safer value and use the other 10 chip row  Cool

Yesterday the first chinese chip-preorder guys received their chips, so we should see some chips outside of china in the next two weeks hopefully. Prepare for massive impact  Cool
full member
Activity: 126
Merit: 100
Just another miner
The PSU i am offering with the boards is the EVGA SuperNOVA G2 1000.[/b]
But i'll see if i can find an equally good 1.5kw model.

@burnin,
If any chance please include various extension/conversion cables on your website for those who already have PSU.
I switched to Cooler Master V1000 PSU and probably will be needing some of the variants listed below.
http://www.coolermaster.com/product/Detail/powersupply/v-series-psu/v1000.html

SATA to PCI-E 6P (need three of these)
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/6-pin-PCIe-PCI-E-Grafikkarte-SATA-Stromkabel-Adapter-/220732874310?pt=EN_Computing_Festplattenkabel_Adapter&hash=item3364b45e46

MOLEX 4-pin to PCI-E 6P (now I have these but someone else might need them)
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/6-Pin-Power-Adapter-Cable-for-PCI-Express-Video-Card-/190517701999?pt=UK_Computing_CablesConnectors_RL&hash=item2c5bbd6d6f

PCI-E 6P extension cable (probably need 8 of these since I am not sure what will be final distance between two bitburner xx)
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/6-Pin-Male-to-Female-PCI-Express-Power-Extension-Cable-20cm-/200722859585?pt=UK_Computing_CablesConnectors_RL&hash=item2ebc03c641
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NZXT-CB-6V-250mm-Single-Sleeved-6-Pin-PCI-E-Ext-Cable-Black-/330786586551?pt=US_Power_Cables_Connectors&hash=item4d046abfb7

Please excuse my ignorance but I am still unsure about other type of connectors we will be able to use beside PCI-E 6P when using PSU  Huh
member
Activity: 80
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Probably already exceeding the 60 Amps design spec but with good cooling they should be able to push up to 80 Amps.

Burnin - is it ok to add heatsinks to the top of the buck regulators or would this be counterproductive with the thermal vias?

Thanks!!! Can't wait until I can order BB^XX boards!!
member
Activity: 80
Merit: 10
afaik the klondike is even more susceptible to this because all 16 chips are organized in one chain.

OK, just to clear this up, the K16 also uses two chains.

ALL: We are talking and 8 chip chain vs a 10 chip chain. This design is an Avalon ASIC result, not a BB^XX nor K16 design limitation.


PS: Burnin, any chance of a BoM soon?   Grin
sr. member
Activity: 243
Merit: 250
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This sounds good. So when a chip fully stops working all others remain working.
If one chip fully stops working and does not forward messages, all chips from that defective one to the end of that row will not function.

If that defective chip still forwards messages, only its hashes are dropped (hw errors).

Oh... rest of the stack... I thought that means the remaining 9. Now the question is how often chips break. I guess overclocking will raise that probability.
All chips are connected in chain in|out-> in|out-> in|out-> in|out ....   1st chip forward message to next. Each miner have different number chip in chain.
In burnin solution are IIR two chain, each contain 10 chip.
How many chip stop working are depend what exactly are broken inside chip.  Most worst scenario: 1st chip in both chain stop working definitely.

What can be done in such case? I mean Klondikes has here an advantage. If one chip breaks, regardless where, all other chips still work. But with bitburners one need a replacement chip and replace it, because otherwise more isnt working.
Can it be replaced easily? I might keep some chips at home then.

afaik the klondike is even more susceptible to this because all 16 chips are organized in one chain.
But you seem to be overestimating chip failure rate a lot.
Replacement:
if you have a SMD reworking station AND the skills - easy.
If not: impossible


Can you say something about how easy overclocking will be? Is it a switch or something? I believe Klondikes need soldering for doing that, i hope overclocking and overvolting is easier with bitburners.

And can you tell the name of the fan, or if its noname the airvolume, size and so on?

Then... what about breaking asic-chips? Will 10 chips stop working when one breaks? And does this one has to be replaced in order to let all chips run again?


Setting the Frequency is easily done through the cgminer Avalon frequency config parameter.
Voltage will be done through a config parameter as well.
Fan size: 92mm 55CFM, 32dBa, 3000rpm.

@burnin: Hey is it possible to say how high the boards gonna be (including the heatsink) ?
I plan a custom cooling on my Asics and need the data how high two stacks would be or what the size of one will be ?
I planned with a height of approximately 60mm based on the assumption that the fan is 80mm of cooling size + some mm for saftey.( comes from the assumption, that the long side of the board has 100mm and the fan needs to be a little smaller)
I would be very happy if you could provide any further information of the approximately height Smiley!

Do you think there is still more OC for the WC cooled devices ?(Maybe reaching 500 with 1.5V ?)
What is the Maximum volts, which can be set?

One module is about 45mm high with heatsink, 92mm fan.
Much higher OC would be possible with the 10 Chip version because it can supply the whole 60 Amps to 10 chips.
At 450Mhz the 20 chip modules are already close to the power limit of the voltage regulators .
Probably already exceeding the 60 Amps design spec but with good cooling they should be able to push up to 80 Amps.
The upper voltage limit is 1.8 Volts  Shocked.


Edit: burnin please plan the PSU so that it accommodates with the overclocking figures and with stacking. thank you.

+1
Yes Please!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Burnin,

You said in regards to air cooled over-clocking:
"Slightly different air cooling setup therefore different temperatures with air cooling. (fan placement)"
-Would this work with stacked boards or is the fan placement maybe unconventional just to get that umph?

You said:
"slightly increased error rate compared to what i normally call "stable" but close enough."
- What does that mean, maybe the numbers or the log/report from cgminer would clear this up?

-What is your personal opinion or gut feeling on longterm air cooled over-clocking at
 450 - 57, 52, 1.34V, 94W?
Normally stable would be lower then 0.01% errors, here we are talking 0.1%.
My gut feeling would be not to exceed 1.30V in the long term.
The PSU i am offering with the boards is the EVGA SuperNOVA G2 1000.

But i'll see if i can find an equally good 1.5kw model.
legendary
Activity: 2674
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This sounds good. So when a chip fully stops working all others remain working.
If one chip fully stops working and does not forward messages, all chips from that defective one to the end of that row will not function.

If that defective chip still forwards messages, only its hashes are dropped (hw errors).

Oh... rest of the stack... I thought that means the remaining 9. Now the question is how often chips break. I guess overclocking will raise that probability.
All chips are connected in chain in|out-> in|out-> in|out-> in|out ....   1st chip forward message to next. Each miner have different number chip in chain.
In burnin solution are IIR two chain, each contain 10 chip.
How many chip stop working are depend what exactly are broken inside chip.  Most worst scenario: 1st chip in both chain stop working definitely.

What can be done in such case? I mean Klondikes has here an advantage. If one chip breaks, regardless where, all other chips still work. But with bitburners one need a replacement chip and replace it, because otherwise more isnt working.
Can it be replaced easily? I might keep some chips at home then.
sr. member
Activity: 259
Merit: 250
Dig your freedom
This sounds good. So when a chip fully stops working all others remain working.
If one chip fully stops working and does not forward messages, all chips from that defective one to the end of that row will not function.

If that defective chip still forwards messages, only its hashes are dropped (hw errors).

Oh... rest of the stack... I thought that means the remaining 9. Now the question is how often chips break. I guess overclocking will raise that probability.
All chips are connected in chain in|out-> in|out-> in|out-> in|out ....   1st chip forward message to next. Each miner have different number chip in chain.
In burnin solution are IIR two chain, each contain 10 chip.
How many chip stop working are depend what exactly are broken inside chip.  Most worst scenario: 1st chip in both chain stop working definitely.
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