WOW! Becoin failed to read and comprehend BFL's policy on BTC refunds - page 9.

becoin

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Quote from: repentance on January 17, 2013, 05:15:37 PM

And yet most people understand perfectly well that Amazon prices their goods in USD and that if they use a payment processor (such as Visa or Mastercard)

Jeeeeeez... How many times should I explain what is the difference to every fuckin idiot?

In cc the conversion is done by the issuing bank. Issuing bank has a contract signed with cc owner to do such currency conversions. They have A LICENSE to do currency conversions. Just after this conversion issuing bank is transferring dollars to the merchant. The TRANSACTION currency is dollars. That is why in case of refund dollars are refunded.

While paying in bitcoins the TRANSACTION currency is bitcoin. Customer transfers bitcoins to the bitcoin address and to the bitcoin amount specified by BFL. If, how much and when BFL converges BTC received into dollars is entirely upon BFL's discretion and what their contract with BitPay is.

SgtSpike

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Quote from: becoin on January 17, 2013, 02:33:12 PM

Quote from: Herodes on January 17, 2013, 02:08:29 PM

becoin: Did they promise to do full BTC refunds at any point ?

Do you have to respect the law if haven't promised to respect it?

Still waiting for you to provide any law or courtroom rulings that side with your point of view.

davout

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Quote from: becoin on January 17, 2013, 05:27:32 PM

BFL through BitPay as an intermediary is using the exchange, not the customer!
BFL have full control how do they setup their BitPay merchant account, when and what % of bitcoins they get and % exchanged against dollars.

Maybe you should stick with PayPal Cheesy

becoin

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Quote from: crazyates on January 17, 2013, 05:19:17 PM

But they're using an exchange at the time of purchase. That should be blatantly obvious!

BFL through BitPay as an intermediary is using the exchange, not the customer!
BFL have full control how do they setup their BitPay merchant account, when and what % of bitcoins they get and % exchanged against dollars.

davout

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Quote from: becoin on January 17, 2013, 05:13:41 PM

They can't! They are not an exchange! Ask davout what does it mean in terms of regulations?

Littleshop

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Quote from: Exception on January 17, 2013, 10:18:22 AM

Quote from: becoin on January 17, 2013, 10:13:08 AM

Quote from: davout on January 17, 2013, 10:05:06 AM

Legal tender laws in the US = private debt can always be settled in USD.

Of course, they CAN! However, their debt is denominated in bitcoins, not in dollars! I gave them bitcoins, not dollars! They MUST settle this debt AT CURRENT bitcoin/$ rate, not at the rate that was months ago!

I'm fairly new to the bitcoin community and seeing people like this make me fear for its future.

+1

crazyates

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Quote from: becoin on January 17, 2013, 05:13:41 PM

Quote from: molecular on January 17, 2013, 05:01:58 PM

They should've clearly stated the fact that you were actually selling your BTC and paying in USD when making the transaction.

They can't! They are not an exchange! Ask davout what does it mean in terms of regulations?

But they're using an exchange at the time of purchase. That should be blatantly obvious!

repentance

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Quote from: molecular on January 17, 2013, 05:01:58 PM

Well, I can say one thing kind-of in your favor (not siding with you at all though): They should've clearly stated the fact that you were actually selling your BTC and paying in USD when making the transaction.

Only because it's been clear to me from the way bitpay works and other context doesn't mean it's clear to everyone.

And yet most people understand perfectly well that Amazon prices their goods in USD and that if they use a payment processor (such as Visa or Mastercard) which raises a charge in their local currency at the USD/local currency exchange rate any refunds will also be made at the USD/local currency exchange rate at the time the refund is issued. Most online vendors do not explicitly state this because most people who use payment processors are well aware of how this works.

While many sites will allow me to see the AUD equivalent of the USD price (which allows me to compare local and overseas prices easily), the product is still priced in USD and Mastercard pays the vendor in USD even though the transaction is shown in AUD on my account. It's not rocket science.

becoin

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Quote from: molecular on January 17, 2013, 05:01:58 PM

They should've clearly stated the fact that you were actually selling your BTC and paying in USD when making the transaction.

They can't! They are not an exchange! Ask davout what does it mean in terms of regulations?

molecular

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Quote from: becoin on January 17, 2013, 04:48:30 PM

Quote from: molecular on January 17, 2013, 04:27:25 PM

On the pic you provided is says the USD price in a much bigger font and the BTC price in brackets, much smaller and some lighter shade of gray. All that is on the left-hand side of the "invoice" which concerns itself with the price. The right-hand side concerns itself with the payment process.

Thanks for suggesting your point of view, molecular. I have never had any special interests in Impressionism (soleil levant), you know, all those shades, colors, forms, brush strokes, emphasis, accurate depiction of light and nuances. I'm afraid my knowledge in this field is quite inferior to yours.

All I know is that all the data in an invoice is equally important independently of color, size or place of the fonts used!

Well, I can say one thing kind-of in your favor (not siding with you at all though): They should've clearly stated the fact that you were actually selling your BTC and paying in USD when making the transaction.

Only because it's been clear to me from the way bitpay works and other context doesn't mean it's clear to everyone.

It looks to me like you made a mistake (in thinking you would get back BTC) and now the situation is pretty bad for you and you can't admit you made that mistake (maybe even to yourself). Now you're attributing the mistake to someone else quite irrationally.

molecular

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Quote from: davout on January 17, 2013, 04:40:23 PM

Let's invite this Micon guy in this thread and all leave at the same time.

fucking lol!

becoin

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Quote from: molecular on January 17, 2013, 04:27:25 PM

On the pic you provided is says the USD price in a much bigger font and the BTC price in brackets, much smaller and some lighter shade of gray. All that is on the left-hand side of the "invoice" which concerns itself with the price. The right-hand side concerns itself with the payment process.

Thanks for suggesting your point of view, molecular. I have never had any special interests in Impressionism (soleil levant), you know, all those shades, colors, forms, brush strokes, emphasis, accurate depiction of light and nuances. I'm afraid my knowledge in this field is quite inferior to yours.

All I know is that all the data in an invoice is equally important independently of color, size or place of the fonts used!

greyhawk

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He wouldn't even notice what with how much he likes to talk.

davout

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1davout

Let's invite this Micon guy in this thread and all leave at the same time.

JWU42

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Quote from: JWU42 on January 17, 2013, 02:46:42 PM

Take 2

smracer

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He is obviously trolling. No one is that stupid.

cedivad

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Quote from: greyhawk on January 17, 2013, 04:28:22 PM

Quote from: cedivad on January 17, 2013, 04:22:28 PM

Quote from: becoin on January 17, 2013, 04:18:19 PM

Bitcoin/$ rate is exploding. Looks like a lot of bitcoins needed for refunds are missing, huh?

Bullshit.

Please stop.

Yeah, well actually he's right about the price soaring up until about 1 and a half hours ago. It looks like we're rapidly approaching normal levels again however by now.

Yes, but that is not BFL buying the BTC needed for refunds.

repentance

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As my daughter in law the lawyer would say - "If the law is on your side, argue law. If the facts are on your side, argue facts. If neither law nor facts are on your side, just argue". becoin has apparently chosen option 3.

greyhawk

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Quote from: cedivad on January 17, 2013, 04:22:28 PM

Quote from: becoin on January 17, 2013, 04:18:19 PM

Bitcoin/$ rate is exploding. Looks like a lot of bitcoins needed for refunds are missing, huh?

Bullshit.

Please stop.

Yeah, well actually he's right about the price soaring up until about 1 and a half hours ago. It looks like we're rapidly approaching normal levels again however by now.

molecular

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Quote from: becoin on January 17, 2013, 03:02:34 PM

Quote from: SgtSpike on January 17, 2013, 02:02:19 PM

That is not pricing in Bitcoins. That is asking for payment in Bitcoins in an amount equivalent to the USD pricing.

Have you heard about a commercial document called INVOICE issued by a seller to the buyer, indicating the products, quantities, and agreed prices for products or services the seller has provided the buyer? Go read somethin'!

On the pic you provided is says the USD price in a much bigger font and the BTC price in brackets, much smaller and some lighter shade of gray. All that is on the left-hand side of the "invoice" which concerns itself with the price. The right-hand side concerns itself with the payment process.

I'm not going to make suggestions to you about cooling down and trying another angle just to see what it looks like and wether it might make sense because I fear you might get mad at me.

Topic: WOW! Becoin failed to read and comprehend BFL's policy on BTC refunds - page 9. (Read 35776 times)