Topic: [XMR] Monero - A secure, private, untraceable cryptocurrency - page 1432. (Read 4670622 times)

Today In POW cryptocurrency, we give the money creation to the people that are securing the network.

So how this money is distributed :
- Chipset makers
- Electricity
- Cloud server service
- Miner margins

In the beginning the miners margin is big ( using already owned hardware, idle cycle, not a lot of concurrence, etc... ), then when the coin get noticed, the miner margin tend to shrink. Why is that ? Well mainly because there is no human value added in mining (basically you set up your node and the rest is just computer running), so you can scale it up without much work.
In this tread I read that the miner margin is around 5%. So that leaves us to 95% is given to actors that aren't involved in crypto at all.
So when you are defending the miner part, you are basically defending this 95% !

But there is much more about a cryptocurrency than securing the network.
And that bring us to development.
Maybe it's time to realize that this money creation should be used to this extent too !
So setting a % of money creation to support development is the road to sustained growth of features and code security.

The problem is, we have a commonly accepted way of distributing money to the network securer (you should note that I didn't say fair, because the more it goes the less it's fair), but not yet for the developers part.

So the next step would be to figure out an acceptable way of distributing the developer incentive.
And that would be the subject of another post.

SlyWax.

Got no problem with an optional payout (and even setting it to non-zero as default in the official client).

The proposal I reacted to made no mention of it being a setting, i.e. optional, however.

Great. Thanks for the update. Hope the testing goes without a hitch.

Yes, exactly. We need to test the per-KB fees code on a testnet. The code for per-KB fees has been largely done for a while, but we're not going to release it without testing. (We've been fairly lucky about releasing some changes without a testnet before, largely out of necessity, but let's not press our luck.)

EDIT: typo testing->testnet

Haven't heard anything on per kb fees for a while. The current high transaction fees are really damaging mining profitability for small miners like me, and are also exposing us to greater risk as we move coins to the exchange less frequently.

It would be great if the new fee structure could be implemented sooner rather than later. I see lots of check-ins recently implementing the TestNet, hopefully this is the last necessary prerequisite for the change in fees?

The problem is that in these early stages we (as in the core team) need to take the role of "benevolent dictator". The reason is that "design by consensus" has never worked - invariably someone or some group will be able to swing the vote in favour of what "they" want. By having a "benevolent dictator" that the community trusts will act in the best interested of the cryptocurrency (and not in the best interests of individuals with voting / buying power), AND who will revert a change / proposition if there is sufficient kickback, you allow for a more unified vision to be realised.

As a core team we have a pretty concrete vision, but it's hard to put it down on paper and look ahead when we're scrabbling to fix urgent things right now.

What I think would work is for us to raise funding to sort out the short-term urgent issues, and then longer-term we can raise funds for specific features / aspects.

Okay, to stay on the topic. I'm community as you rightly noted and I'm a miner and I think that's a great idea. To split (or tax or whatever) block reward to finance development or whatever the said community deems necessary. If only the proceeds would go to some special address and can be spent by some voting system hardcoded in the client (and some special transaction put in the blockchain). Something akin multisig only for all coin holders . If community can't decide on what she wants money is unspent, no harm done.

Edit grammar

The blockchain is only validated by the software people use. If people modify the software, we can't prevent that at all, nor would we even try to force anything on the community.

This is getting a bit off topic though, but I'd encourage you to read http://hackingdistributed.com/2014/06/19/bitcoin-and-voting-power/ (even though I don't 100% agree with it -- but it gets at the relevant issues).

Ultimately we can't put anything in the blockchain, only you, the community can do that.

Not if you are putting it in the blockchain.

Edit: I mean if for block to be considered valid 1% should be sent to some hardcoded address.

No particular implementation has been discussed at all.

Of course since everything is open source you can't hard code anything really, since people can just modify it or take it out.

Neither performance has changed much over the past few months as far as I know.

Whether it is really 1:1 depends on how you measure. A low end GPU (750ti for example) seems to hash something comparable to high end desktop CPU, with comparable power usage, but the GPU is much cheaper (though it requires a computer) and building a multi-GPU rig is very practical (with either these or higher end GPUs that are faster allowing for high capacity rigs, but at slightly worse hash/watt).

However, it is certainly true that the performance ratio is quite low compared to other algorithms and CPU mining can still compete.

Whether it will "hold up" in the future is something I doubt anyone can really answer.

For me, the CPU:GPU (AMD) is about 3:2. CPU is more efficient. That is why hash rate is so high as CPU miner can still make a profit.

Hey guys, sorry if my question has been answered somewhere on previous 700 pages

This mining tax (on block rewards I gather?) you were discussing, did you mean to hardcode some wallet address in bitmonerod?

 CPU + GPU mining (about 1:1 performance for now)

Is this still real? Do you suspect it will hold up? Sorry if thats hard to answer.

Well yeah the 4-5 of us are in agreement. Let's take over the world. 

Idk about you guys but here it's quite early in the morning. Give it time.

It seems we have consensus?

Certainly reasonable.


Open to ideas from any source. The MEW is planning to make its own direct donations but the amounts seem not likely to be sufficient (short term, if the group and coin both really catch on anything is possible). Of course as you say there may be other funding ideas or initiatives from that group.

Well I trust you to give it a try in a realistic time-frame. A crowd-funding takes one month top (well it takes more if it works well but in 2 weeks you usually get a very good idea of the potential gain).

And well the MEW might come up with better ideas and methods, and funds. I don't know.

That's certainly reasonable, though I doubt we will give each approach six months. That's not realistic and contrary to the whole idea that we need more funding to move faster.

Just keep the tax idea on the side and try most other form of financing before so you can say, at the end, that you're doing it because it's the only way.

In fact it works even without trying anything else before... Um. Believe me, I'm French. I know what I'm talking about.

Yeah yeah I know. Ultros, just shut up and go buy a T-shirt. I'll do that actually. I like the black one.