[XMR] Monero - A secure, private, untraceable cryptocurrency - page 1440.

smooth

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Quote from: generalizethis on September 16, 2014, 06:20:38 PM

Quote from: sammy007 on September 16, 2014, 06:03:31 PM

Quote from: generalizethis on September 16, 2014, 05:56:01 PM

Quote from: sammy007 on September 16, 2014, 05:44:34 PM

Quote from: generalizethis on September 16, 2014, 05:37:22 PM

Is there a cut and paste response we can give on threads for people who are looking for anonymity? There's one over on r/bitcoin now and some are recommending mixers--pointed out the single point of failure inherent with mixers, but don't have the technical expertise to explain why Monero is a better means to anonymity.

www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2gl4ua/quick_question_dont_upvote/

Look at FAQ on http://www.monero.cc. Good and short description of Monero anonymity essence.

Thank you. Not sure if I can work with that on the thread though. Here's their question, "If I bought bitcoin on coinbase, and then sent them to an offline wallet I own, and used those to then purchase say a server slot over tor. Would there be anything linking me to that purchase? Other than the fact that I used to own those coins?" Wouldn't they have to convert to an anonymous coin and then back to bitcoin again if they want to be sure they haven't left any tracks? Better to do it all with an anonymous coin, but that might not be an option for them.

Coinbase know your bank account, know you BTC address. It's possible to trace it, NSA can use law or soldering iron to retrieve your BTC address from coinbase. Easy way to hide - transfer BTC to exchange, buy monero, withdraw, transfer monero to another wallet with mixin 7+, transfer to another exchange, sell, transfer to new BTC wallet, pay from it. Weird =)

And you must use several accounts and VPN. Monero can give you anonymous transactions, the rest of your activity can be traced anyway.

Broke it down to 4 steps and posted--thank you. Very simple, and to the point, but seems like the BTC part is a waste of time. Undecided

The BTC part is a waste of time for the exact same reason the fiat part is a waste of time. There are many more people who deal in those, so you need to engage in conversions to deal with them.

David Latapie

hero member

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Monero Core Team

Quote from: generalizethis on September 16, 2014, 05:56:01 PM

Quote from: sammy007 on September 16, 2014, 05:44:34 PM

Quote from: generalizethis on September 16, 2014, 05:37:22 PM

Is there a cut and paste response we can give on threads for people who are looking for anonymity? There's one over on r/bitcoin now and some are recommending mixers--pointed out the single point of failure inherent with mixers, but don't have the technical expertise to explain why Monero is a better means to anonymity.

www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2gl4ua/quick_question_dont_upvote/

Look at FAQ on http://www.monero.cc. Good and short description of Monero anonymity essence.

Thank you. Not sure if I can work with that on the thread though. Here's their question, "If I bought bitcoin on coinbase, and then sent them to an offline wallet I own, and used those to then purchase say a server slot over tor. Would there be anything linking me to that purchase? Other than the fact that I used to own those coins?" Wouldn't they have to convert to an anonymous coin and then back to bitcoin again if they want to be sure they haven't left any tracks? Better to do it all with an anonymous coin, but that might not be an option for them.

FAQ entry "How does "anonymity" work?"

smooth

legendary

Activity: 2968

Merit: 1198

Quote from: Ultros on September 16, 2014, 06:26:06 PM

Quote from: rpietila on September 16, 2014, 05:26:02 PM

The troll war is getting out of hand. I have never needed to buy trolls. Afaik no one in Monero side does it, and I cannot see a reason for doing it.

What I can see, is summarized in the last paragraph of the quote. I am disgusted of what is happening, and getting more resolved to use only the coins where the developers and the activists play fair.

Guys are you still sure we do not need a proper forum? It's exhausting for the community to constantly fight all those trolls (including the recent subtle "fake-shill" comedy) and it's getting worse every day.
Do we really benefit from that situation as a community? Does it really promote XMR well? Does it help gathering more users?
All I know is that the more we go the more It's getting painful to find meaningful information's in a sea of disinformation and dramas. Each time I see all those lies, accusations and attempt to discredit Monero I rage a little inside and it worsen my ulcer.

Is that still fine/normal to you guys? Idk, maybe I just spend to much time there.

I think we're close to the point where a separate forum makes sense, but not quite there. My observation is that only solid top 10 or higher coins can really do well with their own forum (maybe even top 5 is better). Smaller coins don't have enough pull to draw outsiders into a separate forum and you just end up with a few insiders congratulating each other on how good their coin is. We're getting there, but not quite yet.

Try the subreddit though, that still has some newcomers and a bit of interesting discussion (still not enough) and less visible trolling.

kenji

sr. member

Activity: 448

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i am think about to buy a large sum of xmr, what do you guys think could be the price in one year ?

Ultros

sr. member

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Merit: 250

Quote from: rpietila on September 16, 2014, 05:26:02 PM

The troll war is getting out of hand. I have never needed to buy trolls. Afaik no one in Monero side does it, and I cannot see a reason for doing it.

What I can see, is summarized in the last paragraph of the quote. I am disgusted of what is happening, and getting more resolved to use only the coins where the developers and the activists play fair.

Guys are you still sure we do not need a proper forum? It's exhausting for the community to constantly fight all those trolls (including the recent subtle "fake-shill" comedy) and it's getting worse every day.
Do we really benefit from that situation as a community? Does it really promote XMR well? Does it help gathering more users?
All I know is that the more we go the more It's getting painful to find meaningful information's in a sea of disinformation and dramas. Each time I see all those lies, accusations and attempt to discredit Monero I rage a little inside and it worsen my ulcer.

Is that still fine/normal to you guys? Idk, maybe I just spend to much time there.

generalizethis

legendary

Activity: 1750

Merit: 1036

Facts are more efficient than fud

Quote from: sammy007 on September 16, 2014, 06:03:31 PM

Quote from: generalizethis on September 16, 2014, 05:56:01 PM

Quote from: sammy007 on September 16, 2014, 05:44:34 PM

Quote from: generalizethis on September 16, 2014, 05:37:22 PM

Is there a cut and paste response we can give on threads for people who are looking for anonymity? There's one over on r/bitcoin now and some are recommending mixers--pointed out the single point of failure inherent with mixers, but don't have the technical expertise to explain why Monero is a better means to anonymity.

www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2gl4ua/quick_question_dont_upvote/

Look at FAQ on http://www.monero.cc. Good and short description of Monero anonymity essence.

Thank you. Not sure if I can work with that on the thread though. Here's their question, "If I bought bitcoin on coinbase, and then sent them to an offline wallet I own, and used those to then purchase say a server slot over tor. Would there be anything linking me to that purchase? Other than the fact that I used to own those coins?" Wouldn't they have to convert to an anonymous coin and then back to bitcoin again if they want to be sure they haven't left any tracks? Better to do it all with an anonymous coin, but that might not be an option for them.

Coinbase know your bank account, know you BTC address. It's possible to trace it, NSA can use law or soldering iron to retrieve your BTC address from coinbase. Easy way to hide - transfer BTC to exchange, buy monero, withdraw, transfer monero to another wallet with mixin 7+, transfer to another exchange, sell, transfer to new BTC wallet, pay from it. Weird =)

And you must use several accounts and VPN. Monero can give you anonymous transactions, the rest of your activity can be traced anyway.

Broke it down to 4 steps and posted--thank you. Very simple, and to the point, but seems like the BTC part is a waste of time. Undecided

sammy007

legendary

Activity: 1904

Merit: 1003

Quote from: generalizethis on September 16, 2014, 05:56:01 PM

Quote from: sammy007 on September 16, 2014, 05:44:34 PM

Quote from: generalizethis on September 16, 2014, 05:37:22 PM

Is there a cut and paste response we can give on threads for people who are looking for anonymity? There's one over on r/bitcoin now and some are recommending mixers--pointed out the single point of failure inherent with mixers, but don't have the technical expertise to explain why Monero is a better means to anonymity.

www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2gl4ua/quick_question_dont_upvote/

Look at FAQ on http://www.monero.cc. Good and short description of Monero anonymity essence.

Thank you. Not sure if I can work with that on the thread though. Here's their question, "If I bought bitcoin on coinbase, and then sent them to an offline wallet I own, and used those to then purchase say a server slot over tor. Would there be anything linking me to that purchase? Other than the fact that I used to own those coins?" Wouldn't they have to convert to an anonymous coin and then back to bitcoin again if they want to be sure they haven't left any tracks? Better to do it all with an anonymous coin, but that might not be an option for them.

Coinbase know your bank account, know you BTC address. It's possible to trace it, NSA can use law or soldering iron to retrieve your BTC address from coinbase. Easy way to hide - transfer BTC to exchange, buy monero, withdraw, transfer monero to another wallet with mixin 7+, transfer to another exchange, sell, transfer to new BTC wallet, pay from it. Weird =)

And you must use several accounts and VPN. Monero can give you anonymous transactions, the rest of your activity can be traced anyway.

generalizethis

legendary

Activity: 1750

Merit: 1036

Facts are more efficient than fud

Quote from: sammy007 on September 16, 2014, 05:44:34 PM

Quote from: generalizethis on September 16, 2014, 05:37:22 PM

Is there a cut and paste response we can give on threads for people who are looking for anonymity? There's one over on r/bitcoin now and some are recommending mixers--pointed out the single point of failure inherent with mixers, but don't have the technical expertise to explain why Monero is a better means to anonymity.

www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2gl4ua/quick_question_dont_upvote/

Look at FAQ on http://www.monero.cc. Good and short description of Monero anonymity essence.

Thank you. Not sure if I can work with that on the thread though. Here's their question, "If I bought bitcoin on coinbase, and then sent them to an offline wallet I own, and used those to then purchase say a server slot over tor. Would there be anything linking me to that purchase? Other than the fact that I used to own those coins?" Wouldn't they have to convert to an anonymous coin and then back to bitcoin again if they want to be sure they haven't left any tracks? Better to do it all with an anonymous coin, but that might not be an option for them.

sammy007

legendary

Activity: 1904

Merit: 1003

Quote from: generalizethis on September 16, 2014, 05:37:22 PM

Is there a cut and paste response we can give on threads for people who are looking for anonymity? There's one over on r/bitcoin now and some are recommending mixers--pointed out the single point of failure inherent with mixers, but don't have the technical expertise to explain why Monero is a better means to anonymity.

www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2gl4ua/quick_question_dont_upvote/

Look at FAQ on http://www.monero.cc. Good and short description of Monero anonymity essence.

generalizethis

legendary

Activity: 1750

Merit: 1036

Facts are more efficient than fud

Is there a cut and paste response we can give on threads for people who are looking for anonymity? There's one over on r/bitcoin now and some are recommending mixers--pointed out the single point of failure inherent with mixers, but don't have the technical expertise to explain why Monero is a better means to anonymity.

www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2gl4ua/quick_question_dont_upvote/

dEBRUYNE

legendary

Activity: 2268

Merit: 1141

Quote from: owlcatz on September 16, 2014, 04:53:09 PM

Quote from: rpietila on September 16, 2014, 04:49:07 PM

Quote from: Bassica on September 16, 2014, 12:26:43 PM

It might help to have some funding goals, so that as a community, we can work to certain points more rapidly. Maybe the Monero Committee (or whatever is called) can do something with this?

The MEW will be donating at least 1,650 XMR to the developers next week, maybe more depending on the exact membercount. When our membership opens to everyone (asap), the sum will be even higher.

It is correct devs are operating at a loss currently, but at least we are getting a structure in place to support them.

Thanks, I guess I missed it, but what is "MEW" btw?

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/monero-economy-workgroup-the-mew-thread-776479 suit yourself!

If I understood correctly it is mainly targeted at large holders (5k+), you can /q davidlatapie on IRC or here for more info.

fluffypony

donator

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GetMonero.org / MyMonero.com

Quote from: Eastwind on September 16, 2014, 04:33:34 PM

Can you adapt the existing 3rd GUI to save money?

No, it's double the work to first do an RPC hack-job and then follow it up with a proper, integrated solution.

owlcatz

legendary

Activity: 3570

Merit: 1959

Quote from: rpietila on September 16, 2014, 04:49:07 PM

Quote from: Bassica on September 16, 2014, 12:26:43 PM

It might help to have some funding goals, so that as a community, we can work to certain points more rapidly. Maybe the Monero Committee (or whatever is called) can do something with this?

The MEW will be donating at least 1,650 XMR to the developers next week, maybe more depending on the exact membercount. When our membership opens to everyone (asap), the sum will be even higher.

It is correct devs are operating at a loss currently, but at least we are getting a structure in place to support them.

Thanks, I guess I missed it, but what is "MEW" btw?

rpietila

donator

Activity: 1722

Merit: 1036

Quote from: Bassica on September 16, 2014, 12:26:43 PM

It might help to have some funding goals, so that as a community, we can work to certain points more rapidly. Maybe the Monero Committee (or whatever is called) can do something with this?

The MEW will be donating at least 1,650 XMR to the developers next week, maybe more depending on the exact membercount. When our membership opens to everyone (asap), the sum will be even higher.

It is correct devs are operating at a loss currently, but at least we are getting a structure in place to support them.

Eastwind

hero member

Activity: 896

Merit: 1000

Can you adapt the existing 3rd GUI to save money?

fluffypony

donator

Activity: 1274

Merit: 1060

GetMonero.org / MyMonero.com

Quote from: rdnkjdi on September 16, 2014, 02:59:07 PM

Is there anywhere we can see the current dev fund status / amount?

The view key for the XMR fund is in the OP...we just need to provide tooling for that:) We've received around 25.3 BTC in XMR donations, and 7.80559 BTC in BTC donations, so a total of 33.10559 BTC. Actual expenses / contributor tips / freelancers / mathematicians+cryptographers / hosting have been significantly higher (in the region of 110 BTC excluding the core team's time), which we have been covering out of our pockets. In other words, we're in a perpetually negative balance.

rdnkjdi

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Quote from: fluffypony on September 16, 2014, 01:31:14 PM

Quote from: Bassica on September 16, 2014, 12:26:43 PM

How much money BTC/xmr/$ in donations is (approx) needed to get an ETA of the following:

- Embedded DB solution/implementation --> $14 500 (as posted on reddit)
- Convertion of C-code
- Finished (official) GUI
- C++ version of the I2P router (IP obfuscation)
- ... (blockchain bloat issue?)

It might help to have some funding goals, so that as a community, we can work to certain points more rapidly. Maybe the Monero Committee (or whatever is called) can do something with this?

I'm thumb-sucking numbers, don't take these guesstimates as anything actual or realistic.

- Embedded DB solution/implementation - 6 man weeks is a pretty solid guess, so I'll leave the $14 500
- Convertion of C-code - it's not as simple as this. Apart from this specific item, there needs to be an incremental audit and refactor. Just because the bug was lurking in a piece of C code with this doesn't mean there can't be a bug elsewhere, it's just easier to obfuscate it in C. Holistically this is an active, ongoing task, that will likely end up costing in the $80k - $140k range over many, many months.
- Finished (official) GUI - assuming all the other pieces are in place, then dEBRUYNE is correct - anything from $15k - $20k.
- C++ version of the I2P router (IP obfuscation) - this is already making rapid progress: https://github.com/PrivacySolutions/i2pd. To get it to a point where it's usable and implementable as submodule / library I'd imagine is easily a $50k job, but I'm guessing at what orignal's hourly is.
- ... (blockchain bloat issue?) - not really an issue, and I'm unsure as to what we'd consider "solving" it. A linear reduction? A lightweight access methodology that heavily reduces the need for local storage / bandwidth? The amount of experimentation and research needed here to find a cryptographically sound "solution" makes it hard to pin a value down.

Is there anywhere we can see the current dev fund status / amount?

aminorex

legendary

Activity: 1596

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Sine secretum non libertas

Quote from: fluffypony on September 16, 2014, 01:31:14 PM

Just because the bug was lurking in a piece of C code with this doesn't mean there can't be a bug elsewhere, it's just easier to obfuscate it in C.

I can assure you that it is much, much easier to obfuscate a bug in C++ than in C. C++ lacks a tradition is all. After all, C++ includes C.

fluffypony

donator

Activity: 1274

Merit: 1060

GetMonero.org / MyMonero.com

Quote from: Bassica on September 16, 2014, 12:26:43 PM

How much money BTC/xmr/$ in donations is (approx) needed to get an ETA of the following:

- Embedded DB solution/implementation --> $14 500 (as posted on reddit)
- Convertion of C-code
- Finished (official) GUI
- C++ version of the I2P router (IP obfuscation)
- ... (blockchain bloat issue?)

It might help to have some funding goals, so that as a community, we can work to certain points more rapidly. Maybe the Monero Committee (or whatever is called) can do something with this?

I'm thumb-sucking numbers, don't take these guesstimates as anything actual or realistic.

- Embedded DB solution/implementation - 6 man weeks is a pretty solid guess, so I'll leave the $14 500
- Convertion of C-code - it's not as simple as this. Apart from this specific item, there needs to be an incremental audit and refactor. Just because the bug was lurking in a piece of C code with this doesn't mean there can't be a bug elsewhere, it's just easier to obfuscate it in C. Holistically this is an active, ongoing task, that will likely end up costing in the $80k - $140k range over many, many months.
- Finished (official) GUI - assuming all the other pieces are in place, then dEBRUYNE is correct - anything from $15k - $20k.
- C++ version of the I2P router (IP obfuscation) - this is already making rapid progress: https://github.com/PrivacySolutions/i2pd. To get it to a point where it's usable and implementable as submodule / library I'd imagine is easily a $50k job, but I'm guessing at what orignal's hourly is.
- ... (blockchain bloat issue?) - not really an issue, and I'm unsure as to what we'd consider "solving" it. A linear reduction? A lightweight access methodology that heavily reduces the need for local storage / bandwidth? The amount of experimentation and research needed here to find a cryptographically sound "solution" makes it hard to pin a value down.

dEBRUYNE

legendary

Activity: 2268

Merit: 1141

Quote from: Bassica on September 16, 2014, 12:26:43 PM

How much money BTC/xmr/$ in donations is (approx) needed to get an ETA of the following:

- Embedded DB solution/implementation --> $14 500 (as posted on reddit)
- Convertion of C-code
- Finished (official) GUI
- C++ version of the I2P router (IP obfuscation)
- ... (blockchain bloat issue?)

It might help to have some funding goals, so that as a community, we can work to certain points more rapidly. Maybe the Monero Committee (or whatever is called) can do something with this?

Few weeks ago fluffypony said that Finished GUI would cost around 15-18k or something IIRC, calculated using work hours.

Topic: [XMR] Monero - A secure, private, untraceable cryptocurrency - page 1440. (Read 4670622 times)