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Topic: [XMR] Monero - A secure, private, untraceable cryptocurrency - page 1550. (Read 4670972 times)

donator
Activity: 1274
Merit: 1060
GetMonero.org / MyMonero.com
Lots of really good discussion about ripping out old terminology and replacing it with more intuitive and natural terms:)

There may be some value in retaining "address", as "address book" is a familiar concept for having a list of thing-I-remember (name) linked to thing-I-don't-remember (address), and "email address" is a familiar concept as a unique destination. If we replace address with account number, what do we call "Address Book"? I checked on my online banking, and the equivalent they have are "beneficiaries" in a "favourites" list, which I suppose is ok (although I've never been fond of "beneficiaries"..."recipients" maybe?) I'm not averse to dropping "address", as long as we can find a convention that fits.

One additional thing to consider: we are looking at ways of packing the payment ID into the "address" so that there are no longer issues with it being a separate thing that people forget. In this regard alone I lean towards address rather account number, because with a bank you pay into a person's single account number and allocation is manual/semi-automated, whereas with this you'd pay into seemingly-unique "addresses". Conceptually I would think this is somewhat similar to Gmail's functionality where you can receive email to [email protected] and it tags them with the bit after the +.

I think the 24 word "seed" is fine as a term, since it conveys the sense of "thing that everything else grows from" which underscores its importance, else we should call it a 24 word "key"? We will have additional formats that can be used to store your seed, such as a password-encrypted, base58-armoured version. Given that the use of stealth addresses removes the need to have multiple addresses in your wallet (and thus multiple privkeys) we can use the term "seed" or "key" comfortably (I have no preference between the two).

I think the wallet/account MUST be "familiar and easy to use"  ..
The simpler the better ..
I'm in that "wider population non-technical user" demographic ..
I'm in my 60's, somewhat computer literate, willing to try and learn  ..

That said, the "key" imho to mass adoption of any crypto is going to
be 100% on the ease of useablility/security/functinality of the wallet/account ..

Please consider the NXT brain wallet as a potential wallet/account to model after ..
It has several attractive features ..

A brain wallet is a terribly bad idea, not in and of itself, but because people are terribly bad at setting secure passphrases. Even a seemingly safe, single line from a very obscure Afrikaans poem got someone's brainwallet hacked and 4 BTC taken from it. It doesn't matter how much we educate, people are simply not going to use secure passphrases. If we enforce certain things automatically (say, 25 char minimum length, automated Google search must return no results, must not exist in previously known password caches) we are not only compromising our users by sending their secure password out to check (thus exposing it), but we are raising the barrier to entry to a point that is high enough to irritate newcomers and cause them to walk away in frustration.

The 24 word seed is sufficient for you to use Monero on any computer, and we can definitely look at ways of having a much shorter, password-encrypted base58 token in future.
legendary
Activity: 1218
Merit: 1000
XMR wallet looking thin? Huh

Fear not! We are giving away 0.4 XMR for anyone who joins our twitter campaign to cryptsy, btce etc...

Please check the official thread for more info - https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/petitioning-cryptsy-btc-e-and-others-for-moneroxmr-731365
sr. member
Activity: 264
Merit: 250
Yesterday I watched the Fireside Chat, patiently waiting user-friendly GUI. Account term is more reasonable. You know Andreas Antonopoulos also don't like wallet term because it's confusing, he sees Bitcoin Core is like key-chain with all the private keys on it. I support "account", non-crypto environment can understand it better.

he really does says that, and makes sense because its not a wallet, you only hold the keys and the coins are in the blockchain... its seems xmr is giving another small but remarkable step in the right direction.

question: will the new wallet give an option to recover/import old wallets (before the wallet seed being implemented)

thank you monero team, amazing job! Smiley

How you can recover wallet without seed? It's impossible. Only if you have *.keys file.

You may use the 'query_keys' JSON RPC command with the 'key_type' parameter of 'mnemonic' (I'm not sure whether it's included on the stable branch yet).
legendary
Activity: 1904
Merit: 1003
Yesterday I watched the Fireside Chat, patiently waiting user-friendly GUI. Account term is more reasonable. You know Andreas Antonopoulos also don't like wallet term because it's confusing, he sees Bitcoin Core is like key-chain with all the private keys on it. I support "account", non-crypto environment can understand it better.

he really does says that, and makes sense because its not a wallet, you only hold the keys and the coins are in the blockchain... its seems xmr is giving another small but remarkable step in the right direction.

question: will the new wallet give an option to recover/import old wallets (before the wallet seed being implemented)

thank you monero team, amazing job! Smiley

How you can recover wallet without seed? It's impossible. Only if you have *.keys file.
legendary
Activity: 1610
Merit: 1004
how about that candle Smiley

Rejoice, we made the right choice. Smiley
hero member
Activity: 560
Merit: 500
is this the future gui wallet account?

https://github.com/Neozaru/bitmonero-qt

it builds fine under linux but it never ends importing the existing wallet account...
sorry but i can't wait Smiley

No, that's a separate effort. The 'official' one is still a work-in-progress and isn't up on github yet.
legendary
Activity: 3444
Merit: 1061
Why monero.cc website is offline.
Works for me.
The website was offline 18 minutes.

Website offline with cloudflare error using google chrome.  But I can access it normally using Tor browser. Too bad i cannot download the blockchain.  Sad

What country are you connecting from?

Philippines.

Philippines here..the site is good..using firefox here
sr. member
Activity: 952
Merit: 251

{snip}

fulffypony: While I generally agree with the use of 'account' replacing 'wallet', I'd like to offer a suggestion to the team's consideration:

Wallet -> Account
Address -> Account Number (or Account ID, or something in those lines)

For people unfamiliar with crypto currencies in general, the function/meaning of "address" finds it's obvious counterpart in the traditional monetary systems, in the expression "account number" (unless there's some other expression that eludes me). I think this particular understanding is vital in making the shift to "account" successful.

{snip}
 

Seems a logical continuation of the policy of presenting a familiar frame of reference to "new to crypto" users to me, their "bank" is Monero and so naturally their "account" is identified by a "number".

More generally speaking there can be a downside to making things appear too familiar and easy to use, counter-intuitive as that may sound. Having written a few "idiots guide to..." for this sort of thing the biggest challenge is usually explaining the security side of things in simple/familiar terms, because most of the procedures experienced users might consider basic security don't have real world examples; e.g. "somebody cloned your credit card and spent your money without permission? Never mind, we'll reimburse you." doesnt happen with cryptocurrency.

I think the wallet/account MUST be "familiar and easy to use"  ..
The simpler the better ..
I'm in that "wider population non-technical user" demographic ..
I'm in my 60's, somewhat computer literate, willing to try and learn  ..

That said, the "key" imho to mass adoption of any crypto is going to
be 100% on the ease of useablility/security/functinality of the wallet/account ..

Please consider the NXT brain wallet as a potential wallet/account to model after ..
It has several attractive features ..

1) Wallet is not resident on my local PC or other computing device
( this is huge as I don't have to worry about hard drive crashes/
local viruses stealing coins/ lost wallet.dat files/ me making mistakes etc etc

2) the wallet/client features  a 'one click' download and self extraction process
for intial setup and periodic upgrades/updates ( see nxtra.org )

3) All security features I've come across with crypto are focused on thwarting
access to one's wallet/account .. BUT .. and this is key ... nothing ( that I've seen ) to
authorize a "withdrawal" before it occurs .. ie If someone successfully hacks your
wallet/account the 'deed is done' and your coins are gone .. That 'withdrawal
authorization' step needs to be there ( from within the wallet/account )

If you technical types/developers can produce a wallet/account that's as
intuitive to use as the typical online brokerage  account or online banking
account that most of my contemporaries are familiar with ..
Then that coin wins ..

Thanks for listening ..

Triff ..
legendary
Activity: 3766
Merit: 5146
Note the unconventional cAPITALIZATION!
how about that candle Smiley

Its nice to see with all the rest of the crypto slump going.

I've made a couple little lucky trades in and out of these big buys...  I love action.
legendary
Activity: 1722
Merit: 1217
how about that candle Smiley
hero member
Activity: 504
Merit: 500
eidoo wallet

{snip}

fulffypony: While I generally agree with the use of 'account' replacing 'wallet', I'd like to offer a suggestion to the team's consideration:

Wallet -> Account
Address -> Account Number (or Account ID, or something in those lines)

For people unfamiliar with crypto currencies in general, the function/meaning of "address" finds it's obvious counterpart in the traditional monetary systems, in the expression "account number" (unless there's some other expression that eludes me). I think this particular understanding is vital in making the shift to "account" successful.

{snip}
 

Seems a logical continuation of the policy of presenting a familiar frame of reference to "new to crypto" users to me, their "bank" is Monero and so naturally their "account" is identified by a "number".

More generally speaking there can be a downside to making things appear too familiar and easy to use, counter-intuitive as that may sound. Having written a few "idiots guide to..." for this sort of thing the biggest challenge is usually explaining the security side of things in simple/familiar terms, because most of the procedures experienced users might consider basic security don't have real world examples; e.g. "somebody cloned your credit card and spent your money without permission? Never mind, we'll reimburse you." doesnt happen with cryptocurrency.

But you can't clone coins Tongue
sr. member
Activity: 252
Merit: 250

{snip}

fulffypony: While I generally agree with the use of 'account' replacing 'wallet', I'd like to offer a suggestion to the team's consideration:

Wallet -> Account
Address -> Account Number (or Account ID, or something in those lines)

For people unfamiliar with crypto currencies in general, the function/meaning of "address" finds it's obvious counterpart in the traditional monetary systems, in the expression "account number" (unless there's some other expression that eludes me). I think this particular understanding is vital in making the shift to "account" successful.

{snip}
 

Seems a logical continuation of the policy of presenting a familiar frame of reference to "new to crypto" users to me, their "bank" is Monero and so naturally their "account" is identified by a "number".

More generally speaking there can be a downside to making things appear too familiar and easy to use, counter-intuitive as that may sound. Having written a few "idiots guide to..." for this sort of thing the biggest challenge is usually explaining the security side of things in simple/familiar terms, because most of the procedures experienced users might consider basic security don't have real world examples; e.g. "somebody cloned your credit card and spent your money without permission? Never mind, we'll reimburse you." doesnt happen with cryptocurrency.
member
Activity: 106
Merit: 10

I just reread the recent posts about wallet vs account and didn't see possible terminology for addresses mentioned.  Did I miss it?

One thing that I have seen confuse people with using btc is, what exactly is a private key and what do they do with it?  Public keys being addresses/accounts seem straight forward to them.

Private key is your password.

EDIT: Sorry, i see now i may have misunderstood your post. Its confusing for the users, not an actual question.
legendary
Activity: 1624
Merit: 1008

That's an education thing that we'll have to battle through - getting people to understand that there's no central money control or anything. However, I think the conversation is going to be a lot easier.

"You just create a new account, which is completely secure and free, and you can create as many different accounts as you need for you, your wife, your business, whatever. And the great thing is that there's no government or company that controls your money, just like with Bitcoin, so you are in control of your money."

fulffypony: While I generally agree with the use of 'account' replacing 'wallet', I'd like to offer a suggestion to the team's consideration:

Wallet -> Account
Address -> Account Number (or Account ID, or something in those lines)

For people unfamiliar with crypto currencies in general, the function/meaning of "address" finds it's obvious counterpart in the traditional monetary systems, in the expression "account number" (unless there's some other expression that eludes me). I think this particular understanding is vital in making the shift to "account" successful.

This would be a brief, yet sensible description, that integrates both terms:
Creating an account in the P2P Monero network, is the process of generating a Monero account number, under the control of an individual's private key (or seed?).

PS1: I think that there's some conflating the everyday use of 'wallet' as the "location/resource/data that holds funds for an individual", and the use of 'wallet' as the "piece of software that an individual uses to manage/operate on his funds". Is there a name yet for the new GUI, the upcoming Monero Client? (/hint /suggestion)

PS2: I struggled to express my thoughts concerning the terminology, hope this makes enough sense to spark some discussion, or perhaps feedback from any of the (many) brighter minds in this community.

And now that you've doomed my "monujo.com" domain worthless, I'll let it go for 3 Moneros, any takers? 2 Moneros? 1 Monero? Hell No!
Cheers,
~ Myagui
 

I just reread the recent posts about wallet vs account and didn't see possible terminology for addresses mentioned.  Did I miss it?

One thing that I have seen confuse people with using btc is, what exactly is a private key and what do they do with it?  Public keys being addresses/accounts seem straight forward to them.
legendary
Activity: 1154
Merit: 1001

That's an education thing that we'll have to battle through - getting people to understand that there's no central money control or anything. However, I think the conversation is going to be a lot easier.

"You just create a new account, which is completely secure and free, and you can create as many different accounts as you need for you, your wife, your business, whatever. And the great thing is that there's no government or company that controls your money, just like with Bitcoin, so you are in control of your money."

fulffypony: While I generally agree with the use of 'account' replacing 'wallet', I'd like to offer a suggestion to the team's consideration:

Wallet -> Account
Address -> Account Number (or Account ID, or something in those lines)

For people unfamiliar with crypto currencies in general, the function/meaning of "address" finds it's obvious counterpart in the traditional monetary systems, in the expression "account number" (unless there's some other expression that eludes me). I think this particular understanding is vital in making the shift to "account" successful.

This would be a brief, yet sensible description, that integrates both terms:
Creating an account in the P2P Monero network, is the process of generating a Monero account number, under the control of an individual's private key (or seed?).

PS1: I think that there's some conflating the everyday use of 'wallet' as the "location/resource/data that holds funds for an individual", and the use of 'wallet' as the "piece of software that an individual uses to manage/operate on his funds". Is there a name yet for the new GUI, the upcoming Monero Client? (/hint /suggestion)

PS2: I struggled to express my thoughts concerning the terminology, hope this makes enough sense to spark some discussion, or perhaps feedback from any of the (many) brighter minds in this community.

And now that you've doomed my "monujo.com" domain worthless, I'll let it go for 3 Moneros, any takers? 2 Moneros? 1 Monero? Hell No!
Cheers,
~ Myagui
 
newbie
Activity: 47
Merit: 0
As traders and trodlers know, sometimes the handling of Monero seems to be a bit special for exchanges and users. Forgotten payment-id, blockchain not syncronized etc. are every-day-events, as I know, because most of my own trading is with Moneros.

Then you need support and find that there are large differences in the quality of support. This has motivated me to open a thread "quality comparison of the exchanges' support":

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/quality-comparison-of-the-exchanges-support-743446

I want to invite all of you to report your experiences with the support of whatever exchange you are using, as a helpful support for other users and - hopefully - inspiration for the exchanges to improve their support.
sr. member
Activity: 475
Merit: 500
What does everyone think about whats happening with drk right now

If i'm not mistaken this is like the fourth or fifth time their dev team has failed to produce, seems like market cap is getting raped...

Do you guys think some of the value being taken from dark coin will move into monero?

i guess its unlucky timing with the bitcoin drop aswell, the release seems to be fine except some minor updates which followed.
release got delayed often there is a lack of confidence i think,
basically almost all coins are down so its maybe not up to the release
sr. member
Activity: 294
Merit: 250
What does everyone think about whats happening with drk right now

If i'm not mistaken this is like the fourth or fifth time their dev team has failed to produce, seems like market cap is getting raped...

Do you guys think some of the value being taken from dark coin will move into monero?
sr. member
Activity: 294
Merit: 250
hi
 is this coin still the most secure coin out there?

last time i could not even use my own coins..


If you couldn't use your coins it is likely because you were doing something wrong, or NOT doing something right.

The answer to your question though, lies within your definition of "secure"
In terms of network hash rate, no, there are other coins with higher hash rates and thus more difficult to perform a 51%
In terms of being safe from prying eyes, yes, this coin is absolutely the most secure.
legendary
Activity: 910
Merit: 1000
hi
 is this coin still the most secure coin out there?

last time i could not even use my own coins..
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