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Topic: [XMR] Monero - A secure, private, untraceable cryptocurrency - page 2061. (Read 4670972 times)

hero member
Activity: 560
Merit: 500

CryptoNote / Monero et al

CryptoNote's one-time ring signature as a way of obfuscating who is the payer (the spender), is optional and can only be used when there are other payees who have the inputs amounts. In other words, it can't do any obfuscation for you on spending unless there are other coins that have the same balance as yours.

That very infrequent opportunity for use is coupled with constant use of elliptical curve cryptography which is known to be broken under quantum computing, as well is suspect to broken by the NSA or could be broken since it is number theoretic public key cryptography.


This is actually pretty easy to solve and CryptoNote already implements it: every transaction is broken up. There will always be outputs in the blockchain matching the broken-down components. Unlike CoinJoin, this is done without any participation from anyone else. The other matching amounts are not being spent at the same time; in fact they can be used as many times as needed as an ambiguity factor without actually being spent. This means the opportunity to use ring signatures isn't infrequent at all -- you can send any amount you want and it will be appropriately matched and mixed. (See section 4.5 in the white paper.)

No comment on the NSA/quantum resistance/etc.
hero member
Activity: 518
Merit: 521
Zerocash will be announced soon (May 18 in Oakland? but open source may not be ready then?).

Here is a synopsis of the tradeoffs compared to CyptoNote:

1. Zerocash hides everything, even the money supply so if the master key was compromised or if the highly complex bleeding edge crypto is cracked, no one will know.

2. They will claim to generate the master key at a ceremony or devise a way to compute in parts, but nothing they can do will insure it isn't compromised. CPUs even have special firmware that allows the NSA to reprogram them remotely, and even computation can be intercepted wireless with RF signals. Whereas we have to place all trust in a single party with Zerocash, with CN the trusted parties are changing on each transaction. Compromising the master key doesn't compromise the anonymity, but does compromise the money supply which could be expanded invisibly. Cracking the highly complex bleeding edge crypto which has not been sufficiently vetted over years, could compromise the anonymity ex post facto (it is all on the block chain).

3. Both CN and Zerocash use a form of cryptography which is not immune to quantum computation attack, if that becomes a reality in the future.

4. Zerocash transactions add up to 3 minutes of additional transaction delay which is much worse than Zerocoin. Zerocash (full node computation and block chain) resource requirements are centralizing but much improved over Zerocoin.

5. Zerocash hides everything so it is not necessary to obscure your IP address.



Thus on balance I prefer CN, but I like to see it altered to use a quantum computer resistant algorithm. And then we need to add IP address obfuscation as well that is superior to Tor and I2P.

Darkcoin (CoinJoin innovation) is really not at the level of the two above. You can review my comments in the Darkcoin thread to see why.

Zerocash

On further analysis, sending a transaction to Zerocash without reliable obfuscation of your IP address, means the NSA and other national security agencies know you are transacting even though they don't know the amount nor payee.

But we know the NSA is sharing data now with G20 tax authorities (I have a citation for this), thus the tax authorities can demand you provide the details of the transaction.

Thus Zerocash's anonymity is useless (or at least very risky) against the coming wave of confiscation and taxation, without something more reliable than Tor and I2P for obfuscating the IP address. Tor and I2P being low-latency Chaum mix-nets are subject to timing attacks by a global adversary such as the NSA, as well the Tor servers are likely honeypots (Q: who has a motivation to provide all that traffic for free? A: the NSA). I have citations for these statements.

CryptoNote / Monero et al

CryptoNote's one-time ring signature as a way of obfuscating who is the payer (the spender), is optional and can only be used when there are other payees who have matching input amounts. In other words, it can't do any obfuscation for you on spending unless there are other coins that have the same balance as yours.

That very infrequent opportunity for use is coupled with constant use of elliptical curve cryptography which is known to be broken under quantum computing, as well is suspect to broken by the NSA[1] or could be broken since it is number theoretic public key cryptography.

And the use of one-time ring signatures mucks up the pruning of the block chain of spent addresses. There is a tweak to improve this over the current CryptoNote (one of the tweaks I alluded to upthread).

Bottom line is most of your anonymity will come from obfuscating your IP address with something more reliable than Tor and I2P, not from the block chain mixing of CryptoNote or Zerocash/coin, i.e. if your IP is correlated to your identity, then the one-time ring signature doesn't obscure your identity when you spend.

The case where the one-time ring signature is really useful is a transaction with multiple inputs wherein the spender is merging his coins, thus enabling tracing of those coins to the same entity (the current spender). And it is very unfortunate the one-time ring signature is optional in this case, because it is the identity of the upchain spenders who suffer from this action by the current spender, thus the motivation is not there.

So we can see as it is currently structured, CryptoNote doesn't really support anonymity much.

Sorry to blow holes in your enthusiasm. Reality sucks if you haven't taken the time to do some serious work before launching.

Note that the use of a separate payee address for each transaction is a very useful strategy. This is a positive aspect of CryptoNote that adds anonymity, but again it is not so effective without reliable IP obfuscation, as the payee will reveal himself on spending.

[1] http://crypto.stackexchange.com/questions/10263/should-we-trust-the-nist-recommended-ecc-parameters
https://www.schneier.com/essay-446.html
https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2013/11/elliptic_curve.html#c2200076
https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2013/09/the_nsa_is_brea.html#c1676105
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.5518821 (read entire thread)
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.5975715
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.3973597
legendary
Activity: 2968
Merit: 1198
Im willing to buy MRO for 1 btc, so ill take the bet offer, please PM me

Best offer is about 1000 on the trading thread. See original post on this thread for the link.
legendary
Activity: 882
Merit: 1000
Im willing to buy MRO for 1 btc, so ill take the bet offer, please PM me
legendary
Activity: 2968
Merit: 1198
Coming up on difficulty 10 million!

I have to say with pools and GUIs and exchanges this is all getting pretty exciting!

legendary
Activity: 2968
Merit: 1198
Is this only one dev who did all this?

No. The original code code is from bytecoin and/or cryptonote (relationship between them is murky) who are or were some unknown number of developers. No one really knows, as they operate in secret. This is a non-premined fork which is a decentralized community project with several developers working on various things including the new GUI, pools, and exchanges.

newbie
Activity: 56
Merit: 0
Awesome, GUI and an exchange!  Smiley

I was able to compile Monero with Intel C++ Compiler for linux, but got no improvement for 2nd generation optimizations. I'm going to test compiling with different settings soon.
gui?

I don't know if (part of) the bounty is open for everyone, but I have created a .NET based wallet. I started trying to use the RPC API of the daemon and simplewallet, but there are some large gaps in functionality covered by the API functions.

That is why I have create a wrapper around bitmonerod.exe and simplewallet.exe (filenames configurable in config file). It works by launching the simplewallet and daemon in the background and reading output and writing output to those processes. It should be relativly save, because it uses the widly used standard simplewallet and daemon.

It's targeted at windows, although it might be possible to port to Mono.NET (I have no experience with that). It should work with any of the bytecoin forks, but I have tested it with Monero.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.6654252



It's up for testing, not full use from what I can see
sr. member
Activity: 476
Merit: 250
What do you call a fish with no eyes? A Fsh!
Is this only one dev who did all this?
full member
Activity: 224
Merit: 100
Awesome, GUI and an exchange!  Smiley

I was able to compile Monero with Intel C++ Compiler for linux, but got no improvement for 2nd generation optimizations. I'm going to test compiling with different settings soon.
gui?
hero member
Activity: 770
Merit: 504
(っ◔◡◔)っ🍪
Monero is up for voting on this site: https://www.swaphole.com/#!voting

It's a new exchange, so the level of reliability is unknown. But take a second and vote here or anywhere else you find MRO listed for more visibility.

Be careful guys, you can still vote for Dafuq coin there which is coin stealing trojan that forced one of the exchanges to cease trading, seems Swaphole doesn't care...
sr. member
Activity: 560
Merit: 250
"Trading Platform of The Future!"
Awesome, GUI and an exchange!  Smiley

I was able to compile Monero with Intel C++ Compiler for linux, but got no improvement for 2nd generation optimizations. I'm going to test compiling with different settings soon.
legendary
Activity: 2968
Merit: 1198
NoodleDooddle and I are organizing a giveaway atm. You can see the Blog post here. It would be rather nice, if we could merge the giveaways. We already collected >1000 MRO.

Okay sounds good.

I'm suspending the giveaway as of this post. If you already sent me a valid request, it will be honored. The remainder (84.999995 MRO) has been sent to the fund.


member
Activity: 93
Merit: 10
Giveaway!

GreekBitcoin has "generously" (heh) donated 100 MRO for a giveaway fund.

I will be giving away MRO as follows:

Newbie or Brand New created on or after December 15, 2013: 0
Anyone with scammer tag: 0
Newbie or Brand New created before December 15, 2013: 1
Jr Member: 2
Member: 4
Full Member: 5
Sr Member: 6
Hero Member: 7
Hero Member with extra tag (VIP, Donator, Staff, etc. -- scammer does not count): 8

To qualify you must download and install the MRO wallet, and then PM me your MRO address with subject "Giveaway request."

Do not reply or post to the thread asking for a giveaway or you will not only not get a giveaway but you will be banned from receiving any giveaway administered by me now or in the future

Giveaway limited to available funds. I will post when the fund is empty.

NoodleDooddle and I are organizing a giveaway atm. You can see the Blog post here. It would be rather nice, if we could merge the giveaways. We already collected >1000 MRO.

Also we need a news section in OP, so everybody not using the blog or reading all replies, also sees things, like the security fix or this giveaway
member
Activity: 196
Merit: 10
I don't qualify for giveaway.

but that is just the way the cookie crumbles
hero member
Activity: 798
Merit: 1000
Giveaway!

GreekBitcoin has "generously" (heh) donated 100 MRO for a giveaway fund.

I will be giving away MRO as follows:

Newbie or Brand New created on or after December 15, 2013: 0
Anyone with scammer tag: 0
Newbie or Brand New created before December 15, 2013: 1
Jr Member: 2
Member: 4
Full Member: 5
Sr Member: 6
Hero Member: 7
Hero Member with extra tag (VIP, Donator, Staff, etc. -- scammer does not count): 8

To qualify you must download and install the MRO wallet, and then PM me your MRO address with subject "Giveaway request."

Do not reply or post to the thread asking for a giveaway or you will not only not get a giveaway but you will be banned from receiving any giveaway administered by me now or in the future

Giveaway limited to available funds. I will post when the fund is empty.

Thats nice of you always good to share the wealth  Grin

I'm alright for getting a couple of extra MRO and I would implore people who have a few coins to let others who don't get a few.
legendary
Activity: 2968
Merit: 1198
Giveaway!

EDIT: Suspended, pending community giveaway program.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.6660738
hero member
Activity: 560
Merit: 500
TheKoziTwo's exchange testing went well. GUI+pool+exchange in the works. Big day for MRO. Smiley
legendary
Activity: 1484
Merit: 1005
FOSS pool software should be available shortly:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.6659495
newbie
Activity: 56
Merit: 0


Hey emontmon, do you want to try out the nice new GUI with me? Feedback is critical now that Bitkoot has put something out. I'm pretty sure you were using windows, so please let me know?

I can help you with it if you need help setting it up?
I tested it. It seems to be working. It needs bitmonerod.exe and simplewallet.exe at the same folder as the GUI wallet or it crashes. If clause should be added to check if the executables are there and inform the user instead of crashing. I think an "Advanced" tab should be added where you can send your own commands to the wallet and the daemon, because in the current version you can't tell the daemon to start mining. There could be a checkbox in the "wallet log" and "miner log" to make the wallet and bitmonerod windows visible instead of adding "advanced" tab or if advanced tab is added those options should be there also (message in red for the user not to close them if they are visible).

Nice! I'll crosspost the feedback in the GUI thread. I agree that it would be nice to have a check that all the executables are present instead of crashing, as I ran into the same issue when I left the config file out (to which I would suggest creating a standard config file in the same directory if it's not present).

I wanted to try it on a different version of windows. I don't have 8, but do have vista. Also, would this work with 32 bit? I can try it on that as well. I'm about done doing what I can think of as far as usage goes, so I'll be moving onto the 3 other installs (if possible) then.
legendary
Activity: 2968
Merit: 1198
I think an "Advanced" tab should be added where you can send your own commands to the wallet and the daemon, because in the current version you can't tell the daemon to start mining.

Advanced commands are good but there should be a simple check box to turn on and off mining, maybe with a setting for number of threads.



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