I've been, and will continue to be mostly away from XMR, busily trying to make enough bank to do something serious with monero. (Yesterday was a very, very good day in this regard.) This thread is one of the very few avenues by which I seek to keep apprised of events in XMR while my head is preoccupied elsewhere. Dividing the message flow seems bad to me if it risks dropping important bits from this channel, and good if it keeps this channel relatively clean and focussed.
In the big picture, I am surprised that dark markets haven´t picked up XMR yet, but the liquidity limitations, no "official" "blessed" GUI, and the furious torrents of scamcoin propaganda obscuring the playing field are a reasonably sufficient explanation for a delay in that inevitable outcome. I am less convinced that dark net markets are critical to success, now that we know more about the history of individual actors in BTC during the earliest dawnings of the cryptocurrency era. (Following the proven pattern of BTC, we might expect a very few investors to raise the liquidity quite dramatically, whereupon mass-media visibility will be assured. Meanwhile we can enjoy the hobbyist community feel, and establish leadership positions in the future of mankind, as it were, by accident.)
Again, my notion of meaningful success means displacing debt-based money to a significant, measurable degree (more than 1% certainly), as unlikely as that appears -- which is essential to the future of mankind, and inevitable for la meilleur technologie. As invisibly small as XMR is today, it still remains the best socio-technological candidate to do so, on my criteria of responsible open community-based stewardship, stable social contract, sustainable supply, fair distribution, provable (and proven, and battle-tested) security parameters and cryptographic protocols, usable privacy, low transmission latency, expectation of value retention, &c.
Price stability would be nice for merchants and transfer applications. The easiest way to establish that would be to just floor it with a peg. If and when I have enough spare change for this (which won't happen for months certainly) I would be inclined to just fix a price in gold and buy at market anything below that price, sell excess reserves at some fixed ratio above the peg, so that the whole business was always justifiably profitable. I might not be able to cap the exchange rate (for lack of locate, e.g.), but I can certainly put a floor under it as some suitable point, after the other capital-intensive activities which are presently squeezing me get wound down to a breathable level.
My suspicion is that a floor price in gold will suffice to spark an influx of merchants.
Topic: [XMR] Monero - A secure, private, untraceable cryptocurrency - page 909. (Read 4670673 times)
...
Update on this matter: This was already addressed in MRL-0004 (see 2.1) -> https://lab.getmonero.org/pubs/MRL-0004.pdf and will be implemented with a hardfork in the foreseeable future. I spoke to fluffypony and moneromoo about it on IRC, whole conversation is below in the pastebin. I figured this is easier than making a small summary (conversation isn't that long).
http://pastebin.com/Mrbyt3Wu
Update on this matter: This was already addressed in MRL-0004 (see 2.1) -> https://lab.getmonero.org/pubs/MRL-0004.pdf and will be implemented with a hardfork in the foreseeable future. I spoke to fluffypony and moneromoo about it on IRC, whole conversation is below in the pastebin. I figured this is easier than making a small summary (conversation isn't that long).
http://pastebin.com/Mrbyt3Wu
I am well aware of MRL-0004. The issue is that asking people to use a mixin of 3 before the implementation of (i) on page 13 of MRL-0004 is what is causing the problem. As the wallet implementation stands now, as far as I can see, a mixin greater than 1 only works for transactions with at most 2 decimal places since these would be legal under MRL-0004. There is also the issue of not being able to prevent the use of illegal inputs since these would have to be spent into legal inputs with a mixin of 0 or 1 before they can be spent with a mixin greater than 1.
Edit: It is easy to understand why an exchange that tries to implement a mixin of 3 goes back to a mixin of 1 after numerous failed transactions.
Mixin with a count greater than 1 needs also the breaking out of transactions into powers of 10 down the the lowest level of precision used. So for example 0.00012959874 gets broken down into 0.00010000000, 0.00002000000, 0.00000900000, 0.00000050000, 0.00000009000, 0.00000000800, 0.00000000070, and 0.00000000004. Otherwise these remainder amounts are unique and cannot be mixed. Furthermore for this to work this change needs to be implemented ahead of the mixin change to provide enough transactions in the blockchain for the actual mixing to work. This needs to be addressed at the protocol level.
Right now anything with more than 2 decimal places cannot be mixed with a mixin over 1 and this is the cause of these problems. Asking exchanges to use higher mixin levels is doomed to failure without addressing this mantissa issue at the protocol level.
Right now anything with more than 2 decimal places cannot be mixed with a mixin over 1 and this is the cause of these problems. Asking exchanges to use higher mixin levels is doomed to failure without addressing this mantissa issue at the protocol level.
just a quick idea (dunno if it is stupid), if merchants (exchanges) wont adopt it, from my understanding, you could just send the 1 mixin funds to your wallet and resend it with a mixin greater then 1, to another address you own, right?
perhaps this can be done automatically, like generating an address in your wallet which you could mark as an "unclean" receiving address, and your wallet will automatically resend funds recieved to that address to another one of your addresses with a mixin greater then 1.
What you are suggesting is a good temporary solution, just do not send any transactions with more than two decimal places and a mixin grater than 1 as there is a good chance they will fail. There is a very valid reason why exchanges are not implementing mixin greater than 1 and that is failed transactions leading to increased support issues. This needs to be addresed at the protocol level, otherwise it will continue to ba a problem. Any issue with bloat can be addressed via transaction size dependent transaction fees. If someone wishes to send a high precision high mixin transaction they should be able to provided they pay for it.
Update on this matter: This was already addressed in MRL-0004 (see 2.1) -> https://lab.getmonero.org/pubs/MRL-0004.pdf and will be implemented with a hardfork in the foreseeable future. I spoke to fluffypony and moneromoo about it on IRC, whole conversation is below in the pastebin. I figured this is easier than making a small summary (conversation isn't that long).
http://pastebin.com/Mrbyt3Wu
When will we have another Missive? It almost 2 months since the last one. I need my Missive...
Check:
Hi friends!
Where is Fluffypony? Has his bitcointalk account been recovered after known social ingeneering attack onto bitcointalk?
Also I am confused about http://getmonero.org - it was not attacked, but latest news are dated "March 30"...
Where is Fluffypony? Has his bitcointalk account been recovered after known social ingeneering attack onto bitcointalk?
Also I am confused about http://getmonero.org - it was not attacked, but latest news are dated "March 30"...
Forgot to add - my travels have disrupted the Missive schedule, but we're trying to get everything back on track now:)
When will we have another Missive? It almost 2 months since the last one. I need my Missive...
Is it true it's actually safe?
I would say it is not safe. Very likely another scam. Owner wants to remain anonymous, ask yourself why?
Its normal, if i lauch an service like that i wanted to be anonymous too... what if some autorities want to arrest the owner for money landry? or for no propper taxation... i dont even opened the site, but if you wish to test it, test it with low ammounts...
Its normal for the owner to be anonymous, as long as he shows the cold wallet address which he did. I invested my bitcoin in safedice from 2014 and have no problems. That said, everyone is entitled to their respective views
What services or offerings you guys currently miss in the Monero ecosystem?
What needs to be build to improve Monero today (a bit)?
Name everything:
- doesn't matter if for profit or non-profit typ of organization
- doesn't matter if only a small fraction of Moneros users would benefit from it (maybe only you?) or bigger party up to the whole community
- doesn't matter if such type of service exist or not exist in other cryptocurrency ecosystems (bitcoin)
[obvious what has shown to be useful in other cryptocurrencys and is still missing in XMR, could be benefitial (as it has a shown proof-of-concept), but even what not exists elsewhere should be named, so it can be developed/discussed]
The people who want to help develop Monero ecosystem need to know, what is asked for by the community.
The ecosystem must be activally developed by the whole community. Users must express their wishes, feedback, needs and suggestions.
This is important and should be addressed accordingly.
Its a difficult task/struggle as showm by all other old altcoins (ounce big & popular) altcoins. They all failed building an ecosystem. (besides Doge and Bitcoin, but both their cases cant be generalized)
From my perspective the main problems were e.g. the "endlessness waitings" for the next XYZ:
- "lets wait with development the ecosystem, until the price moves up"
- "lets wait with development the ecosystem, until the next release with blahblablah superfeature x123"
- "lets wait with development the ecosystem, until we have more users"
- "lets wait with development the ecosystem, until we get added at random_payment_processor or random_big_merchant"
- "lets wait with development the ecosystem, until we have trezor support"
- "lets wait with development the ecosystem, until we have multisig/deterministic wallets/2FA/big boobs ......"
- "you dont need to develop/offer this service, there will be no users ..." (from random idiots ...)
- "you dont need to develop/offer this service, this is already in development by TZR since 40 months, but will be ready soon"
- "your service/idea is useful, but it sucks because it doesn't have random_paranoia_request"
- "we are in the hoarding/acquirement-stage of the coin, we just hodl and buy more coins, spending and ecommerce-usage will be done in 5 years, so no need for services/merchanttools/acceptance today"
- "your products are to expensive" (from random idiots to every small merchant who started accepting the own coin)
this coin will only succeed, if we start using it today
if we dont start, it will never take off
every bootstraped operation/networks needs a start and activityness
if we dont build useful services with monero price at 0,5$ today, there will NEVER be a golden future
if people (esp. smart people) who support Monero and want to contribute cant find opportunities (no ideas, no users, no feedback, no appreciation), they will move on and find other projects, were there contribution is rewarded, welcomed and leading to something
momentum can be lost, if community gets to inactive (shown by many coins and other projects), today alot of people want to support Monero (don't disappoint them or drive them away, great negative examples: Litecoin, others: Darkcoin and DarkWallet)
bonus: services and usage today in this early stage, will also help to develop, gain expierence and hardening Monero
What needs to be build to improve Monero today (a bit)?
Name everything:
- doesn't matter if for profit or non-profit typ of organization
- doesn't matter if only a small fraction of Moneros users would benefit from it (maybe only you?) or bigger party up to the whole community
- doesn't matter if such type of service exist or not exist in other cryptocurrency ecosystems (bitcoin)
[obvious what has shown to be useful in other cryptocurrencys and is still missing in XMR, could be benefitial (as it has a shown proof-of-concept), but even what not exists elsewhere should be named, so it can be developed/discussed]
The people who want to help develop Monero ecosystem need to know, what is asked for by the community.
The ecosystem must be activally developed by the whole community. Users must express their wishes, feedback, needs and suggestions.
This is important and should be addressed accordingly.
Its a difficult task/struggle as showm by all other old altcoins (ounce big & popular) altcoins. They all failed building an ecosystem. (besides Doge and Bitcoin, but both their cases cant be generalized)
From my perspective the main problems were e.g. the "endlessness waitings" for the next XYZ:
- "lets wait with development the ecosystem, until the price moves up"
- "lets wait with development the ecosystem, until the next release with blahblablah superfeature x123"
- "lets wait with development the ecosystem, until we have more users"
- "lets wait with development the ecosystem, until we get added at random_payment_processor or random_big_merchant"
- "lets wait with development the ecosystem, until we have trezor support"
- "lets wait with development the ecosystem, until we have multisig/deterministic wallets/2FA/big boobs ......"
- "you dont need to develop/offer this service, there will be no users ..." (from random idiots ...)
- "you dont need to develop/offer this service, this is already in development by TZR since 40 months, but will be ready soon"
- "your service/idea is useful, but it sucks because it doesn't have random_paranoia_request"
- "we are in the hoarding/acquirement-stage of the coin, we just hodl and buy more coins, spending and ecommerce-usage will be done in 5 years, so no need for services/merchanttools/acceptance today"
- "your products are to expensive" (from random idiots to every small merchant who started accepting the own coin)
this coin will only succeed, if we start using it today
if we dont start, it will never take off
every bootstraped operation/networks needs a start and activityness
if we dont build useful services with monero price at 0,5$ today, there will NEVER be a golden future
if people (esp. smart people) who support Monero and want to contribute cant find opportunities (no ideas, no users, no feedback, no appreciation), they will move on and find other projects, were there contribution is rewarded, welcomed and leading to something
momentum can be lost, if community gets to inactive (shown by many coins and other projects), today alot of people want to support Monero (don't disappoint them or drive them away, great negative examples: Litecoin, others: Darkcoin and DarkWallet)
bonus: services and usage today in this early stage, will also help to develop, gain expierence and hardening Monero
That's what i call a post!!!
I want to use Monero daily, shop, trade and by with it what i want. Give me a shop and i'll use it
I wouldn't fret too much about it. As the cryptocurrency community studies and learns about bitcoin, monero, etc., they will soon discover that these cryptocurrencies are much like products. The cryptocurrencies with the best feature sets will reign supreme. Also, since this is all mostly software, changes/improvements are fairly rapid--generally speaking. If people can't even articulate or know the features each cryptocurrency has, then they deserve to lose their investment(s).
+1 thats exactly how I view cryptocurrencies, financial software, I will use the best, in the moment its Monero.
It "doesnt look good" because useless shitcoins are being pumped while Monero is ignored by major exchanges and builds a real foundation with useful services by many different people with real goals.
I wouldn't fret too much about it. As the cryptocurrency community studies and learns about bitcoin, monero, etc., they will soon discover that these cryptocurrencies are much like products. The cryptocurrencies with the best feature sets will reign supreme. Also, since this is all mostly software, changes/improvements are fairly rapid--generally speaking. If people can't even articulate or know the features each cryptocurrency has, then they deserve to lose their investment(s).
regarding the wider ecosystem i allready tried to raise my voice in the speculation thread, since i too share the opinion that the community needs to communicate its wishes and needs. some of mine:
i do think that we need an alternate exchange with good liquidity. one without KYC for the moment, until we have some global law or whatever. best would be one we can trust
margin trading is definetely not required from my side.
besides that there are some things at monero itself that need to be done to make it more useful (see post from MalMen somewhere above me). Monero is the most useful coin if you just take the protocol without any 3rd party service, but still belive it or not, people are struggling running it. so usabillity should be increased a lot(its on track it seems). Minimum mixing level is definetely a point here too.
in my opinion like it or not, the dark market is very important. this market is (a) key to become successful, so research about a possible multi sig implementation should be pushed too. I'm not a dark market customer, but at hofmann parity i could become one.
maybe a faucet would be nice(testnet faucet allready exists), but this depends also on CK. would be nice if one could drop some xmr there for the poor(some chat inside a building to make it rain or whatever), but i am confident in this.
i love xmr.to. wanted to make a payment but the things i wanted to buy were above 1 btc and i didnt knew if i could split it up.
yes, activity is/was low, we have to be careful to not just become "another coin", especially now with the vacuum polo created
i do think that we need an alternate exchange with good liquidity. one without KYC for the moment, until we have some global law or whatever. best would be one we can trust
margin trading is definetely not required from my side.
besides that there are some things at monero itself that need to be done to make it more useful (see post from MalMen somewhere above me). Monero is the most useful coin if you just take the protocol without any 3rd party service, but still belive it or not, people are struggling running it. so usabillity should be increased a lot(its on track it seems). Minimum mixing level is definetely a point here too.
in my opinion like it or not, the dark market is very important. this market is (a) key to become successful, so research about a possible multi sig implementation should be pushed too. I'm not a dark market customer, but at hofmann parity i could become one.
maybe a faucet would be nice(testnet faucet allready exists), but this depends also on CK. would be nice if one could drop some xmr there for the poor(some chat inside a building to make it rain or whatever), but i am confident in this.
i love xmr.to. wanted to make a payment but the things i wanted to buy were above 1 btc and i didnt knew if i could split it up.
yes, activity is/was low, we have to be careful to not just become "another coin", especially now with the vacuum polo created
Price about 0.0018, not looking so good.
Yeah, 2-3 days ago price is 2k + but now 1.8.. i dont know why but this is not good. we need promote monero.
Price about 0.0018, not looking so good.
Dewdeded, great post! I hope we can get some input from community members. In my opinion, when the new funding system is in place, ideas will pop up by themselves.
PS: A new poll -> https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/speculate-which-altcoin-will-eventually-reach-parity-with-btc-1071351 & https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/fixed-speculate-which-altcoin-from-the-top-15-will-reach-parity-with-btc-1071851
PS: A new poll -> https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/speculate-which-altcoin-will-eventually-reach-parity-with-btc-1071351 & https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/fixed-speculate-which-altcoin-from-the-top-15-will-reach-parity-with-btc-1071851
- Finishing the new database daemon so everyone can run their own node in any PC or other light device
- Implementation of the new RCP model for simplewallet (already told on one missive that we will use 0MQ-based IPC system)
- Mobile APP for dayly use
- URI implementation on GUIs so merchants can give only one address with all information needed (we already have standards for this ie monero:49RPpNuDuLhayv8yHgVSNhgdvB4Uze3A9euEsBzp3groWssk2eZPEErf6LSDae9smQ78a5CfNmafYdg YnyjTEY6q4EvuPJ1?recepient_name=MalMen&tx_description=personal%20wallet&tx_payment_id=d72342f01533de49f6eeba974e7f8530ad3b55af028957be8232a88975430a93)
- QR Code wide implementation to help the mobile devices
- Implementation of the new RCP model for simplewallet (already told on one missive that we will use 0MQ-based IPC system)
- Mobile APP for dayly use
- URI implementation on GUIs so merchants can give only one address with all information needed (we already have standards for this ie monero:49RPpNuDuLhayv8yHgVSNhgdvB4Uze3A9euEsBzp3groWssk2eZPEErf6LSDae9smQ78a5CfNmafYdg YnyjTEY6q4EvuPJ1?recepient_name=MalMen&tx_description=personal%20wallet&tx_payment_id=d72342f01533de49f6eeba974e7f8530ad3b55af028957be8232a88975430a93)
- QR Code wide implementation to help the mobile devices
Excellent post!
What services or offerings you guys currently miss in the Monero ecosystem?
What needs to be build to improve Monero today (a bit)?
Name everything:
- doesn't matter if for profit or non-profit typ of organization
- doesn't matter if only a small fraction of Moneros users would benefit from it (maybe only you?) or bigger party up to the whole community
- doesn't matter if such type of service exist or not exist in other cryptocurrency ecosystems (bitcoin)
[obvious what has shown to be useful in other cryptocurrencys and is still missing in XMR, could be benefitial (as it has a shown proof-of-concept), but even what not exists elsewhere should be named, so it can be developed/discussed]
The people who want to help develop Monero ecosystem need to know, what is asked for by the community.
The ecosystem must be activally developed by the whole community. Users must express their wishes, feedback, needs and suggestions.
This is important and should be addressed accordingly.
Its a difficult task/struggle as showm by all other old altcoins (ounce big & popular) altcoins. They all failed building an ecosystem. (besides Doge and Bitcoin, but both their cases cant be generalized)
From my perspective the main problems were e.g. the "endlessness waitings" for the next XYZ:
- "lets wait with development the ecosystem, until the price moves up"
- "lets wait with development the ecosystem, until the next release with blahblablah superfeature x123"
- "lets wait with development the ecosystem, until we have more users"
- "lets wait with development the ecosystem, until we get added at random_payment_processor or random_big_merchant"
- "lets wait with development the ecosystem, until we have trezor support"
- "lets wait with development the ecosystem, until we have multisig/deterministic wallets/2FA/big boobs ......"
- "you dont need to develop/offer this service, there will be no users ..." (from random idiots ...)
- "you dont need to develop/offer this service, this is already in development by TZR since 40 months, but will be ready soon"
- "your service/idea is useful, but it sucks because it doesn't have random_paranoia_request"
- "we are in the hoarding/acquirement-stage of the coin, we just hodl and buy more coins, spending and ecommerce-usage will be done in 5 years, so no need for services/merchanttools/acceptance today"
- "your products are to expensive" (from random idiots to every small merchant who started accepting the own coin)
this coin will only succeed, if we start using it today
if we dont start, it will never take off
every bootstraped operation/networks needs a start and activityness
if we dont build useful services with monero price at 0,5$ today, there will NEVER be a golden future
if people (esp. smart people) who support Monero and want to contribute cant find opportunities (no ideas, no users, no feedback, no appreciation), they will move on and find other projects, were there contribution is rewarded, welcomed and leading to something
momentum can be lost, if community gets to inactive (shown by many coins and other projects), today alot of people want to support Monero (don't disappoint them or drive them away, great negative examples: Litecoin, others: Darkcoin and DarkWallet)
bonus: services and usage today in this early stage, will also help to develop, gain expierence and hardening Monero
What needs to be build to improve Monero today (a bit)?
Name everything:
- doesn't matter if for profit or non-profit typ of organization
- doesn't matter if only a small fraction of Moneros users would benefit from it (maybe only you?) or bigger party up to the whole community
- doesn't matter if such type of service exist or not exist in other cryptocurrency ecosystems (bitcoin)
[obvious what has shown to be useful in other cryptocurrencys and is still missing in XMR, could be benefitial (as it has a shown proof-of-concept), but even what not exists elsewhere should be named, so it can be developed/discussed]
The people who want to help develop Monero ecosystem need to know, what is asked for by the community.
The ecosystem must be activally developed by the whole community. Users must express their wishes, feedback, needs and suggestions.
This is important and should be addressed accordingly.
Its a difficult task/struggle as showm by all other old altcoins (ounce big & popular) altcoins. They all failed building an ecosystem. (besides Doge and Bitcoin, but both their cases cant be generalized)
From my perspective the main problems were e.g. the "endlessness waitings" for the next XYZ:
- "lets wait with development the ecosystem, until the price moves up"
- "lets wait with development the ecosystem, until the next release with blahblablah superfeature x123"
- "lets wait with development the ecosystem, until we have more users"
- "lets wait with development the ecosystem, until we get added at random_payment_processor or random_big_merchant"
- "lets wait with development the ecosystem, until we have trezor support"
- "lets wait with development the ecosystem, until we have multisig/deterministic wallets/2FA/big boobs ......"
- "you dont need to develop/offer this service, there will be no users ..." (from random idiots ...)
- "you dont need to develop/offer this service, this is already in development by TZR since 40 months, but will be ready soon"
- "your service/idea is useful, but it sucks because it doesn't have random_paranoia_request"
- "we are in the hoarding/acquirement-stage of the coin, we just hodl and buy more coins, spending and ecommerce-usage will be done in 5 years, so no need for services/merchanttools/acceptance today"
- "your products are to expensive" (from random idiots to every small merchant who started accepting the own coin)
this coin will only succeed, if we start using it today
if we dont start, it will never take off
every bootstraped operation/networks needs a start and activityness
if we dont build useful services with monero price at 0,5$ today, there will NEVER be a golden future
if people (esp. smart people) who support Monero and want to contribute cant find opportunities (no ideas, no users, no feedback, no appreciation), they will move on and find other projects, were there contribution is rewarded, welcomed and leading to something
momentum can be lost, if community gets to inactive (shown by many coins and other projects), today alot of people want to support Monero (don't disappoint them or drive them away, great negative examples: Litecoin, others: Darkcoin and DarkWallet)
bonus: services and usage today in this early stage, will also help to develop, gain expierence and hardening Monero
For the gamblers: SafeDice has added Monero! https://safedice.com/
Investors please be cautious with investing as bankroll, the owner is anonymous and also wishes to remain so.
More info in the SafeDice thread -> https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.11456012
Investors please be cautious with investing as bankroll, the owner is anonymous and also wishes to remain so.
More info in the SafeDice thread -> https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.11456012
Hello everybody,
I want share with you a new Monero mining pool:
URL: http://monero.dounit.fr
Country: France(Paris)
Manager (IRC): amauche
Total Fees: 1%
Donations (% of fees): 50%
It protected against DDoS attack.
I want share with you a new Monero mining pool:
URL: http://monero.dounit.fr
Country: France(Paris)
Manager (IRC): amauche
Total Fees: 1%
Donations (% of fees): 50%
It protected against DDoS attack.
Really good location for Europe miners. I will use this for backup pool. good luck.
Maybe devs could copy Bytecoin again at least we will get working GUI wallet. These all getting umberising.
Maybe if the Devs were scamming scumbags like Bytecoin devs then they could have the funds for the entire roadmap to be done by now.
Hello everybody,
I want share with you a new Monero mining pool:
URL: http://monero.dounit.fr
Country: France(Paris)
Manager (IRC): amauche
Total Fees: 1%
Donations (% of fees): 50%
It protected against DDoS attack.
I want share with you a new Monero mining pool:
URL: http://monero.dounit.fr
Country: France(Paris)
Manager (IRC): amauche
Total Fees: 1%
Donations (% of fees): 50%
It protected against DDoS attack.
Jump to: