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Topic: [XMR] Monero - A secure, private, untraceable cryptocurrency - page 931. (Read 4670673 times)

legendary
Activity: 2968
Merit: 1198
just tried the shapeshift. Mixin 0.



The hardfork can't come soon enough.

So, the long-heralded "pay anonymouselee to a bitcoined address" by using shapeshifter is once again a load of male bovine excrement, due to the failure of shadeshift developers to understand the necessity of using mixin > 2.

Brilliant.  Undecided

No. If you are sending XMR to shapeshift (for example to pay for a Bitcoin purchase), you can use whatever mix factor you want.

Even the other way, its not really correct to say that it "isn't anonymous". It still has stealth addresses (the address to which the coins are sent on the blockchain will never have been seen before and never will be seen again) and it's still going to be hard to do a lot of blockchain analysis once those coins are resent with mixing (possibly by the first recipient, if they care).

If you send BTC to shapeshift, then receive XMR (with mix=0) which you intend to send back to shapeshift as a form of BTC mixing (not entirely clear this is a good idea, but that's another issue), you can remix the XMR yourself by sending them to another wallet (with a mix factor) first before sending them back (again with a mix factor -- this mixes the coins twice, the same as if they had sent with a mix originally).

The main issue with mix=0 is the negative effect it has on other transactions and overall blockchain analysis vulnerability via chain reaction effects, but if one transaction happens to be sent to you that way it isn't really a disaster you can't work around.



hero member
Activity: 644
Merit: 502
just tried the shapeshift. Mixin 0.



The hardfork can't come soon enough.

So, the long-heralded "pay anonymouselee to a bitcoined address" by using shapeshifter is once again a load of male bovine excrement, due to the failure of shadeshift developers to understand the necessity of using mixin > 2.

Brilliant.  Undecided
legendary
Activity: 1762
Merit: 1011
UPDATE TO MONERO: ShapeShift has re-launched Monero on the exchange. Buy/sell with XMR on shapeshift.io

Update: XMR is down on shapeshift

Try a hard refresh of the page. XMR is live and operational.

What mixin level does shapeshift.io use when sending Monero to users of the shapeshift service?

Dunno. If I decide to try it out, I'll post my results.

That reminds me, did you ever get a crash on send when using MoneroX?  We discussed that some weeks ago.

yea I asked that question as well.

I never have. I run a local daemon though (no remote node). I made a video of me sending a transaction... perhaps I should find a way to post.

I have. I've mentioned it on the MoneroX thread. I was using a remote daemon when it was happening, just fyi.



just tried the shapeshift. Mixin 0.

Good to know.



Has anyone made any progress on implementing a combined address/payment id, as outlined by luigi1111? There's a ~350 XMR bounty to whoever gets it in.

Adding the payment ID with checksum seems fairly simple. I went and created a test address just now:

Code:
Standard Address: 44sKiMHpNjRivdd2NQUyViGYZy4wbJ9L9KhFUaqSSE6JQP9LLbxL9tSikwrhYTRu3x2zKR28txuEc3zSGPduQ9byMUKoz6m
Payment ID: feedfeedfeedfeedfeedfeedfeedfeedfeedfeedfeedfeedfeedfeedfeedfeed

Code:
Integrated Address: 44sKiMHpNjRivdd2NQUyViGYZy4wbJ9L9KhFUaqSSE6JQP9LLbxL9tSikwrhYTRu3x2zKR28txuEc3zSGPduQ9byXSb563RKvyBgorjsFGwyx9gorjsFGwyx9gorjsFGwyx9TpPbbCy

What I did:

Instead of the standard hex format - ('12' network byte) + (public spend key 64 digits) + (public view key 64 digits) + (checksum 8 digits) - I stripped the checksum and appended the payment ID, then recalculated and appended the new checksum. This creates a 101 byte address instead of the standard 69 byte, and 139 "Public Address" characters vs 95 standard.

cnBase58 --> hex the above "Integrated Address" and you get (separated for clarity):
Code:
12 55a1e49673f5a8faa6ba4f942585695ceee5c7522496be6fc38d3f09905e3f8b ca6313deac11aff9a7241e7095863b0be3099d50d7a0cd11e0adbcf4990e64b5 feedfeedfeedfeedfeedfeedfeedfeedfeedfeedfeedfeedfeedfeedfeedfeed b1d0950e

The code just needs to check for length to determine the type. Alternatively, (I don't know what all the other cryptonotes are using) the network byte could be changed to 0x13 or something for the "Integrated Address".

This would be great to have.
hero member
Activity: 795
Merit: 514
Has anyone made any progress on implementing a combined address/payment id, as outlined by luigi1111? There's a ~350 XMR bounty to whoever gets it in.

Adding the payment ID with checksum seems fairly simple. I went and created a test address just now:

Code:
Standard Address: 44sKiMHpNjRivdd2NQUyViGYZy4wbJ9L9KhFUaqSSE6JQP9LLbxL9tSikwrhYTRu3x2zKR28txuEc3zSGPduQ9byMUKoz6m
Payment ID: feedfeedfeedfeedfeedfeedfeedfeedfeedfeedfeedfeedfeedfeedfeedfeed

Code:
Integrated Address: 44sKiMHpNjRivdd2NQUyViGYZy4wbJ9L9KhFUaqSSE6JQP9LLbxL9tSikwrhYTRu3x2zKR28txuEc3zSGPduQ9byXSb563RKvyBgorjsFGwyx9gorjsFGwyx9gorjsFGwyx9TpPbbCy

What I did:

Instead of the standard hex format - ('12' network byte) + (public spend key 64 digits) + (public view key 64 digits) + (checksum 8 digits) - I stripped the checksum and appended the payment ID, then recalculated and appended the new checksum. This creates a 101 byte address instead of the standard 69 byte, and 139 "Public Address" characters vs 95 standard.

cnBase58 --> hex the above "Integrated Address" and you get (separated for clarity):
Code:
12 55a1e49673f5a8faa6ba4f942585695ceee5c7522496be6fc38d3f09905e3f8b ca6313deac11aff9a7241e7095863b0be3099d50d7a0cd11e0adbcf4990e64b5 feedfeedfeedfeedfeedfeedfeedfeedfeedfeedfeedfeedfeedfeedfeedfeed b1d0950e

The code just needs to check for length to determine the type. Alternatively, (I don't know what all the other cryptonotes are using) the network byte could be changed to 0x13 or something for the "Integrated Address".
legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1008
just tried the shapeshift. Mixin 0.

legendary
Activity: 2968
Merit: 1198
Be cautious with that cryptonote wikipedia entry. There is a lot of agenda-driven propaganda and other completely false crap in there.

Feel free to try to clean it up, but you will likely be battling with someone being paid to edit it.
legendary
Activity: 3836
Merit: 4969
Doomed to see the future and unable to prevent it
Anyword on the GUI wallet? Any rough estimate on how far out that might be?

Your answer is in the wiki.

Link? I couldnt find the wiki link

I think he meant this -> https://forum.getmonero.org/1/news-announcements-and-editorials/190/editorial-why-is-the-official-gui-wallet-not-released-yet

Anyway, on the dogedradio interview devs said it will probably be released within 6 months and certainly this year. That interview was in March.

Devs: If this isn't correct, please correct me.


Sorry my bad, It's linked in the Cryptonote wiki in the monero section. Monero wiki is weak, basically just a basic outline. There was a good one that got tarballed as the dev team is building their own.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CryptoNote#cite_note-41
Quote
Monero (XMR)
Main article: Monero (cryptocurrency)

Monero is a fork of Bytecoin (BNC) launched in April 18, 2014 with a 1-minute block target (instead of 2 minutes block target in Bytecoin). This coin has been launched as BitMonero, but renamed to Monero by its community five days later. A few weeks after Monero's launch, an optimized GPU miner for CryptoNight hash has been developed.[40] Monero development team states official GUI wallet release as one of their secondary goals do to the release of quality third party options.[41] Monero teamed up with academic cryptographers,[42] implemented an extensive aliasing system, OpenAlias,[43] partially funded Privacy Solution for integrating I2P in Monero,[44] created an anonymous voting system, URS,[45] implemented Electrum's mnemonic seeds and released a webwallet.

41 is the link dEBRUYNE provided.
legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1008
UPDATE TO MONERO: ShapeShift has re-launched Monero on the exchange. Buy/sell with XMR on shapeshift.io

Update: XMR is down on shapeshift

Try a hard refresh of the page. XMR is live and operational.

What mixin level does shapeshift.io use when sending Monero to users of the shapeshift service?

Dunno. If I decide to try it out, I'll post my results.

That reminds me, did you ever get a crash on send when using MoneroX?  We discussed that some weeks ago.

yea I asked that question as well.

I never have. I run a local daemon though (no remote node). I made a video of me sending a transaction... perhaps I should find a way to post.
sr. member
Activity: 770
Merit: 250
UPDATE TO MONERO: ShapeShift has re-launched Monero on the exchange. Buy/sell with XMR on shapeshift.io

Update: XMR is down on shapeshift

Try a hard refresh of the page. XMR is live and operational.

What mixin level does shapeshift.io use when sending Monero to users of the shapeshift service?

Dunno. If I decide to try it out, I'll post my results.

That reminds me, did you ever get a crash on send when using MoneroX?  We discussed that some weeks ago.

yea I asked that question as well.
sr. member
Activity: 337
Merit: 250
UPDATE TO MONERO: ShapeShift has re-launched Monero on the exchange. Buy/sell with XMR on shapeshift.io

Update: XMR is down on shapeshift

Try a hard refresh of the page. XMR is live and operational.

What mixin level does shapeshift.io use when sending Monero to users of the shapeshift service?

Dunno. If I decide to try it out, I'll post my results.

That reminds me, did you ever get a crash on send when using MoneroX?  We discussed that some weeks ago.
legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1008
UPDATE TO MONERO: ShapeShift has re-launched Monero on the exchange. Buy/sell with XMR on shapeshift.io

Update: XMR is down on shapeshift

Try a hard refresh of the page. XMR is live and operational.

What mixin level does shapeshift.io use when sending Monero to users of the shapeshift service?

Dunno. If I decide to try it out, I'll post my results.
sr. member
Activity: 337
Merit: 250
UPDATE TO MONERO: ShapeShift has re-launched Monero on the exchange. Buy/sell with XMR on shapeshift.io

Update: XMR is down on shapeshift

Try a hard refresh of the page. XMR is live and operational.

What mixin level does shapeshift.io use when sending Monero to users of the shapeshift service?
legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1008
Though, in general, I understand the GUI wallet push, but the only thing I see this advancing is an increased user-base, which could theoretically lead to increased hodling, which theoretically leads to increased price of the coin. But, if the coin fails untraceability due to people using mixin 0 and dust bombs then.... Huh

Fundamentals!!!

But its your money!! And I'm just a dude.

"its not a bug, its a feature!", people using Monero should know to have guaranteed untraceability and privacy they have to use mixin 3 or higher.

Yeah, but its important to realize that anyone using mixin 0 (I'm leering at you Poloniex) are throwing a wrench in the whole system:

From the missive (and this was actually a MRL 1 finding)
Quote
Just to sort-of explain it quite simply: if I create a bunch of transactions, and in each transaction I have my signature along with your signature…so just by chance I happen to mix with your signature, and it's the same denomination I put every single time. And then in 6 months' time you go and spend that output at a mixin 0. Suddenly what you're effectively doing is you are invalidating all of the times that output was used previously. Which means that all of the transactions where you and I, where I used your signature as a ring signature on it, is suddenly like…well, anybody looking can go "hey, this ring signature is part of an output that was spent, and so therefore the other one must be the correct one." So that revelation becomes dangerous especially when owning a certain number of outputs, and the knowing that you control those outputs leads to a cascade or a snowball.

so, its not people (with a small p) that need to use mixin 3 to have guaranteed privacy, its People (meaning everyone)

and the fix:
Quote
So what we're really trying to move away from his instead of having "unspent" outputs that we mix with, just having outputs that we mixed with and they should always be unspent; it should be impossible to tell if an output has actually been spent on the blockchain or not.

in addition to:
Quote
So MRL 4 is something that people can read in their own time, but basically the long and the short of it is that we're going to be moving quite soon to a minimum mixin of 2, and we are going to programmatically lock in that within the next 3 to 5 years that minimum mixing is going to move to 4.

But I might have my understanding of this off a bit. I'm sure i'll be pwned by an Elder soon.
sr. member
Activity: 453
Merit: 500
hello world
as always, biggest possible source of error sits in front of the screen.
so good software with UI does everything to prevent the user from making something that is not in his best interest. its definetely a requirement, but i was thinking about where to put it. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-functional_requirement)

we absolutely need minimal mixing
G2M
sr. member
Activity: 280
Merit: 250
Activity: 616
Though, in general, I understand the GUI wallet push, but the only thing I see this advancing is an increased user-base, which could theoretically lead to increased hodling, which theoretically leads to increased price of the coin. But, if the coin fails untraceability due to people using mixin 0 and dust bombs then.... Huh

Fundamentals!!!

But its your money!! And I'm just a dude.

"its not a bug, its a feature!", people using Monero should know to have guaranteed untraceability and privacy they have to use mixin 3 or higher.

I'd rather have people hodling because they see something more than a GUI oriented cryptocoin at this point. I mean .. if they're gonna buy regardless at some point in the future anyways, I'd rather have them buy it because it's expensive rather than because it's a cryptocoin with a GUI. Pretty much all cryptocoins have GUI's. Not all of them are expensive.

I'd make the argument that people would likely hold it tighter if it was expensive, than if it had a GUI.
sr. member
Activity: 350
Merit: 250
Though, in general, I understand the GUI wallet push, but the only thing I see this advancing is an increased user-base, which could theoretically lead to increased hodling, which theoretically leads to increased price of the coin. But, if the coin fails untraceability due to people using mixin 0 and dust bombs then.... Huh

Fundamentals!!!

But its your money!! And I'm just a dude.

"its not a bug, its a feature!", people using Monero should know to have guaranteed untraceability and privacy they have to use mixin 3 or higher.
legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1008
So how much donating needs to happen to get the ball rolling for the GUI wallet dream to come true? Im willing to make a big donation in BTC or XMR but i want it to be directly correlated to the advancement of this wallet as I believe this will be one of the major stepping stones to XMR advancement. I know their is a donation address but it would be nice being able to choose where we want our money applied. Keep it up and look forward to the response.  http://imgur.com/a/ERheR#L4244oc

There will be a project-specific funding mechanism implemented on the Getmonero.org forum soon, so this could be a good avenue for your proposed funding.

I would argue, however, that MRL 4 implementation is more important than a GUI, because they are fundamental to strengthen the core functions of privacy and untraceability.

For your reference,

https://lab.getmonero.org/pubs/MRL-0004.pdf

And the missive that describes it:
http://getmonero.org/2015/02/23/monero-missive-for-the-week-of-2015-02-23.html

(do mind the quality of the audio, this was one of my earlier efforts. This particular missive is transcribed though, so yay!!)

Though, in general, I understand the GUI wallet push, but the only thing I see this advancing is an increased user-base, which could theoretically lead to increased hodling, which theoretically leads to increased price of the coin. But, if the coin fails untraceability due to people using mixin 0 and dust bombs then.... Huh

Fundamentals!!!

But its your money!! And I'm just a dude.
legendary
Activity: 2268
Merit: 1141
So how much donating needs to happen to get the ball rolling for the GUI wallet dream to come true? Im willing to make a big donation in BTC or XMR but i want it to be directly correlated to the advancement of this wallet as I believe this will be one of the major stepping stones to XMR advancement. I know their is a donation address but it would be nice being able to choose where we want our money applied. Keep it up and look forward to the response.  http://imgur.com/a/ERheR#L4244oc

Fluffypony & co are setting up a new funding system on the official forum, this will likely speed up things and you can donate to what you personally find most important. Currently the donations go to more or less a blackbox (no offense to the devs, you guys are doing great work, but you get my point) and this is in my opinion a great step forward. If I recall correctly, fluffypony said a few days ago that they are finalizing this system.

Additional information:

you guys are always pointing out how the project is basically unfunded and you do great work under those conditions no doubt. but i just want to do what i can to help with this situation for 2 reasons, for the good of monero, but also because you guys should be compensated for the work you do. and the thing is, i just dont think that panhandling is ever going to get you the sort of consistent and appropriate compensation you should be getting, and monero should be getting.

We've been working on adding some needed functionality to the forum, and our next major task we're going to tackle is the funding system. The idea is:

1. Users / developers / anyone will pitch an idea in the Ideas section of the forum. This is already happening.

2. After some discussion it will be moved by one of the administrators (currently the Core Team only, but that would change in future) to the Open Tasks section of the forum. No tasks have been moved as yet.

3. Developers (including the core team, and initially probably only the core team for simplicity) will pitch against each of these open tasks. Later on I would expect that there would be more people / teams pitching against tasks, and the most competent / available / reasonably priced will be the one the community will veer towards.

4. Once the developer / team has been selected to complete the task it moves to the Funding Required section of the forum, and it is opened for funding.

5. Funding will be to a core team controlled address with a payment ID for that particular project/task, and there will be a funding progress bar. This information will be mirrored over to a funding page on the website that shows the funding progress per project/task.

6. When funding reaches 70% (for smaller tasks) or 30% (for larger and longer tasks) it goes into the Work in Progress section and work begins.

7. Funds are dispensed by the core team on a regular basis and only if there is actual progress / commits / whatever, so it doesn't go into a black hole.

Advantages of this approach:

- the core team's oversight role can eventually be replaced by a group selected from the community at large, so as not to have a stranglehold over things

- the core team's escrow role can eventually be replaced by a multi-sig system (2-of-3) where the signatories are the core team, the oversight group, and the recipient, so the recipient can't spend those raised funds without the involvement of one of the other 2 signatories

- this isn't limited to dev tasks, and things like "fly David Latapie to speak at a conference" or lobbying or PR or advertising can all have tasks created and funded

- funding is direct and specific to tasks instead of going into a big black hole and hoping for the best

We expect this system will still take us another short while before we can put it live, but we're already crunching away at the functionality for it (and this also further emphasises why the forum couldn't just be SMF with a theme;) )
hero member
Activity: 768
Merit: 505
So how much donating needs to happen to get the ball rolling for the GUI wallet dream to come true? Im willing to make a big donation in BTC or XMR but i want it to be directly correlated to the advancement of this wallet as I believe this will be one of the major stepping stones to XMR advancement. I know their is a donation address but it would be nice being able to choose where we want our money applied. Keep it up and look forward to the response.  http://imgur.com/a/ERheR#L4244oc

AFAIK it is planned to be supported by the Forum Software in the not so far future that you can choose where to put your donations ( GUI , Research etc. )
sr. member
Activity: 462
Merit: 500
So how much donating needs to happen to get the ball rolling for the GUI wallet dream to come true? Im willing to make a big donation in BTC or XMR but i want it to be directly correlated to the advancement of this wallet as I believe this will be one of the major stepping stones to XMR advancement. I know their is a donation address but it would be nice being able to choose where we want our money applied. Keep it up and look forward to the response.  http://imgur.com/a/ERheR#L4244oc
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