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Topic: [XMR] Monero - A secure, private, untraceable cryptocurrency - page 964. (Read 4671924 times)

hero member
Activity: 795
Merit: 514
Every single world-changing human invention can have it's benefit described in one sentence.

Oh really? What was the single-sentence value proposition of the internet back in 1988? Let's hear it... it better be visionary!

IDK. First way for users to instantly share digital information anywhere in the world using a common standard?  Is it a trick question?

What digital information did anyone have to share? Sorry, I don't see the value Smiley
sr. member
Activity: 392
Merit: 255
OK, your argument is that 'Monero is a secure, private, untraceable currency that is open-source and freely available to all.'

When I ask what is the *unique* value over all the other coins that claim to be private & untraceable the same as you do, including coins with essentially the *same code* as Monero, the answer is that it can't be described in one sentence...I got my answer, thanks.

Dude you're right.

Also a Ferrari is essentially the same as an Audi TT.

An iPhone is essentially the same as a Nokia 3310.

A micro-SD is essentially the same as a 5.25" hard drive.

Facebook is essentially the same as MySpace.

OK so Monero is as different to Bytecoin, Dashcoin, etc, as a Ferrari is to an Audi TT.....get it.

Care to explain *how* Monero is that different?  How is Monero tech so much more beneficial to users than Bytecoin/Dashcoin than a solid state disk is to a HD?   Does it sync faster and have faster transactions?  What exactly?
donator
Activity: 1274
Merit: 1060
GetMonero.org / MyMonero.com
OK, your argument is that 'Monero is a secure, private, untraceable currency that is open-source and freely available to all.'

When I ask what is the *unique* value over all the other coins that claim to be private & untraceable the same as you do, including coins with essentially the *same code* as Monero, the answer is that it can't be described in one sentence...I got my answer, thanks.

Dude you're right.

Also a Ferrari is essentially the same as an Audi TT.

An iPhone is essentially the same as a Nokia 3310.

A micro-SD is essentially the same as a 5.25" hard drive.

Facebook is essentially the same as MySpace.
sr. member
Activity: 392
Merit: 255
Every single world-changing human invention can have it's benefit described in one sentence.

Oh really? What was the single-sentence value proposition of the internet back in 1988? Let's hear it... it better be visionary!

IDK. First way for users to instantly share digital information anywhere in the world using a common standard?  Is it a trick question?

How many users shared information in 1988? I started using the www with NCSA Mosaic in 1994 or 1995, and I didn't have a website until maybe 2002. Your value proposition is incorrect, and invalid until 20 years later.

Sure Fluff Smiley

Still waiting for you to provide evidence for your accusation of a fellow coin dev committing fraud that I woke up today and saw: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.11163736
donator
Activity: 1274
Merit: 1060
GetMonero.org / MyMonero.com
Every single world-changing human invention can have it's benefit described in one sentence.

Oh really? What was the single-sentence value proposition of the internet back in 1988? Let's hear it... it better be visionary!

IDK. First way for users to instantly share digital information anywhere in the world using a common standard?  Is it a trick question?

How many users shared information in 1988? I started using the www with NCSA Mosaic in 1994 or 1995, and I didn't have a website until maybe 2002. Your value proposition is incorrect, and invalid until 20 years later.
sr. member
Activity: 392
Merit: 255
Like I said, the claim here is Monero is going to change the world and a profound new technology etc.

No, not at all. The only valid claim is on the getmonero.org website: "Monero is a secure, private, untraceable currency that is open-source and freely available to all."

Every single world-changing human invention can have it's benefit described in one sentence.

Really? Describe the benefit of the Diffie-Hellman key exchange in one sentence. Or describe the benefit of the kingpost truss in one sentence? Or describe the benefit of the intraoperative cell salvage during invasive operations in one sentence?

Technical invention / innovation doesn't need "one sentence", because peers (hence peer review) don't mind reading.

Technical projects where the devs hide behind lots of text, shiny marketing graphics and claims that non-technical people are 'too blind to see it' are the ones that have no value in my experience.

I agree, that's why I've pointed out snake oil and scams like Ethereum and Darkcoin/Dash.

From the last few pages what I learned is:  There is not one unique reason why anyone would want to use Monero, apart from all the other Bytecoin clones are scams.

Absolutely, as long as you're happy to ignore the 800+ commits we've made and the functionality they've added, then you are completely correct.

Just my opinion, unless you can say what the value is yourself, without claiming that it can't be described in English or it is somewhere on a marketing graphic...

Ironically it's not a marketing graphic, it's an explanatory image with bullet points. The bullet points are actually largely technical, and nor marketing fodder at all. If you want to have a discussion you need to read those Design and Development goals, and then we can chat.

Sorry tough questions Fluffy, but in real world this is what you get.  You have worked with VCs, you should know this?

Monero is an open-source project with unpaid contributors all over the globe. If I got hit by a bus tomorrow it would continue. There's absolutely no comparison with a VC-backed business, and your inference shows how little you understand about open-source development (you must be spending too much time around scamcoins).

OK, your argument is that 'Monero is a secure, private, untraceable currency that is open-source and freely available to all.'

When I ask what is the *unique* value over all the other coins that claim to be private & untraceable the same as you do, including coins with essentially the *same code* as Monero, the answer is that it can't be described in one sentence...I got my answer, thanks.
donator
Activity: 1274
Merit: 1060
GetMonero.org / MyMonero.com
Like I said, the claim here is Monero is going to change the world and a profound new technology etc.

No, not at all. The only valid claim is on the getmonero.org website: "Monero is a secure, private, untraceable currency that is open-source and freely available to all."

Every single world-changing human invention can have it's benefit described in one sentence.

Really? Describe the benefit of the Diffie-Hellman key exchange in one sentence. Or describe the benefit of the kingpost truss in one sentence? Or describe the benefit of the intraoperative cell salvage during invasive operations in one sentence?

Technical invention / innovation doesn't need "one sentence", because peers (hence peer review) don't mind reading.

Technical projects where the devs hide behind lots of text, shiny marketing graphics and claims that non-technical people are 'too blind to see it' are the ones that have no value in my experience.

I agree, that's why I've pointed out snake oil and scams like Ethereum and Darkcoin/Dash.

From the last few pages what I learned is:  There is not one unique reason why anyone would want to use Monero, apart from all the other Bytecoin clones are scams.

Absolutely, as long as you're happy to ignore the 800+ commits we've made and the functionality they've added, then you are completely correct.

Just my opinion, unless you can say what the value is yourself, without claiming that it can't be described in English or it is somewhere on a marketing graphic...

Ironically it's not a marketing graphic, it's an explanatory image with bullet points. The bullet points are actually largely technical, and nor marketing fodder at all. If you want to have a discussion you need to read those Design and Development goals, and then we can chat.

Sorry tough questions Fluffy, but in real world this is what you get.  You have worked with VCs, you should know this?

Monero is an open-source project with unpaid contributors all over the globe. If I got hit by a bus tomorrow it would continue. There's absolutely no comparison with a VC-backed business, and your inference shows how little you understand about open-source development (you must be spending too much time around scamcoins).
sr. member
Activity: 392
Merit: 255
Like I said, the claim here is Monero is going to change the world and a profound new technology etc.

No, the claim is that cryptonote was and is first truly and usefully cryptocurrency innovation after Bitcoin.

Monero is the name for the credible open and public project that is developing cryptonote technology.



You are also investing time in Dashcoin Smooth, are you saying that isn't a credible and open project?

Not to any significant degree no.

Quote
And if it is, then how can Monero be the only credible cryptonote coin?  Also then tomorrow I can clone Bytecoin and do a fair launch and I have the same innovation as Monero and Dashcoin or what's the difference?  .....How does this change the world???

Already addressed above. Your misunderstanding is that innovation is all that matters. It isn't. Innovation must be coupled with execution. In this context "execution" is a credible open and public project with a strong community.

You can fork Bytecoin, that literally takes 5 seconds. As for the rest, to reach the level of Monero, takes a year.


innovation is the primary unique differential any investor looks for because it represents the greatest barrier to entry for competition to a first-mover tech.

anyone can clone Bytecoin, do a logo, make a mymonero website and talk on a forum a lot.  It's innovation that to investors means the investment is good, because it's doing something new and useful over existing tech, which in tech conveys multiple benefits

and before i get drilled for saying 'investor', the reason to have investors is that's how we get crypto out to the mass market.  And the mass market wants....innovation.
sr. member
Activity: 392
Merit: 255
Every single world-changing human invention can have it's benefit described in one sentence.

Oh really? What was the single-sentence value proposition of the internet back in 1988? Let's hear it... it better be visionary!

IDK. First way for users to instantly share digital information anywhere in the world using a common standard?  Is it a trick question?
legendary
Activity: 2968
Merit: 1198
Like I said, the claim here is Monero is going to change the world and a profound new technology etc.

No, the claim is that cryptonote was and is first truly and usefully cryptocurrency innovation after Bitcoin.

Monero is the name for the credible open and public project that is developing cryptonote technology.



You are also investing time in Dashcoin Smooth, are you saying that isn't a credible and open project?

Not to any significant degree no.

Quote
And if it is, then how can Monero be the only credible cryptonote coin?  Also then tomorrow I can clone Bytecoin and do a fair launch and I have the same innovation as Monero and Dashcoin or what's the difference?  .....How does this change the world???

Already addressed above. Your misunderstanding is that innovation is all that matters. It isn't. Innovation must be coupled with execution. In this context "execution" is a credible open and public project with a strong community.

You can fork Bytecoin, that literally takes 5 seconds. As for the rest, to reach the level of Monero, takes a year.
full member
Activity: 231
Merit: 100
Like I said, the claim here is Monero is going to change the world and a profound new technology etc.

No, the claim is that cryptonote was and is first truly and usefully cryptocurrency innovation after Bitcoin.

Monero is the name for the credible open and public project that is developing cryptonote technology.



You are also investing time in Dashcoin Smooth, are you saying that isn't a credible and open project?  And if it is, then how can Monero be the only credible cryptonote coin?  Also then tomorrow I can clone Bytecoin and do a fair launch and I have the same innovation as Monero and Dashcoin or what's the difference?  .....How does this change the world???

I keep wondering how one gets a job like this.

In any case, just know that the replies you are getting are for posterity's sake. Nothing else.
hero member
Activity: 795
Merit: 514
Every single world-changing human invention can have it's benefit described in one sentence.

Oh really? What was the single-sentence value proposition of the internet back in 1988? Let's hear it... it better be visionary!
sr. member
Activity: 392
Merit: 255
Like I said, the claim here is Monero is going to change the world and a profound new technology etc.

No, the claim is that cryptonote was and is first truly and usefully cryptocurrency innovation after Bitcoin.

Monero is the name for the credible open and public project that is developing cryptonote technology.



You are also investing time in Dashcoin Smooth, are you saying that isn't a credible and open project?  And if it is, then how can Monero be the only credible cryptonote coin?  Also then tomorrow I can clone Bytecoin and do a fair launch and I have the same innovation as Monero and Dashcoin or what's the difference?  .....How does this change the world???
donator
Activity: 1722
Merit: 1036
Claim is that cryptonote was and is first meaningfully useful and significant cryptocurrency innovation after Bitcoin (tweaks don't count, nor do broken concepts like proof-of-stake).

Monero is the name for the credible open and public project that is developing cryptonote technology.


This.


Case closed.
legendary
Activity: 2968
Merit: 1198
Like I said, the claim here is Monero is going to change the world and a profound new technology etc.

No, the claim is that cryptonote was and is the first meaningfully useful and significant cryptocurrency innovation after Bitcoin (tweaks don't count, nor do broken concepts such as proof-of-stake).

Monero is the name for the credible open and public project that is developing cryptonote technology.

EDIT: typo
sr. member
Activity: 392
Merit: 255
I don't know, but i'm guessing it's not possible to describe it in one sentence, instead I have to read more pages of text?

I don't get your fixation on "one sentence".

Those who are technically competent and interested in cryptocurrencies will read the "pages of text" because that's how they prove Monero's worth to themselves.

Those who aren't technically competent will use whatever their girlfriend or boss or mom uses.

There exists this narrow band of maybe - MAYBE - 20 000 people scattered across the globe, gathering on obscure Internet forums, who are not competent enough to intuitively recognise a cryptocurrency based on solid fundamentals, but not so technically inept that they need their daughter to help them change their desktop background. Those are the people that need "one sentence", but since that group has a significant number of profit-seekers and scammers there's no point in us pandering to that group. They'll either figure it out on their own, or they won't.

You'll either figure it out on your own, or you won't.

Like I said, the claim here is Monero is going to change the world and a profound new technology etc.

Every single world-changing human invention can have it's benefit described in one sentence.

Technical projects where the devs hide behind lots of text, shiny marketing graphics and claims that non-technical people are 'too blind to see it' are the ones that have no value in my experience.

From the last few pages what I learned is:  There is not one unique reason why anyone would want to use Monero, apart from all the other Bytecoin clones are scams.

Just my opinion, unless you can say what the value is yourself, without claiming that it can't be described in English or it is somewhere on a marketing graphic...

Sorry tough questions Fluffy, but in real world this is what you get.  You have worked with VCs, you should know this?


donator
Activity: 1274
Merit: 1060
GetMonero.org / MyMonero.com
I don't know, but i'm guessing it's not possible to describe it in one sentence, instead I have to read more pages of text?

I don't get your fixation on "one sentence".

Those who are technically competent and interested in cryptocurrencies will read the "pages of text" because that's how they prove Monero's worth to themselves.

Those who aren't technically competent will use whatever their girlfriend or boss or mom uses.

There exists this narrow band of maybe - MAYBE - 20 000 people scattered across the globe, gathering on obscure Internet forums, who are not competent enough to intuitively recognise a cryptocurrency based on solid fundamentals, but not so technically inept that they need their daughter to help them change their desktop background. Those are the people that need "one sentence", but since that group has a significant number of profit-seekers and scammers there's no point in us pandering to that group. They'll either figure it out on their own, or they won't.

You'll either figure it out on your own, or you won't.
hero member
Activity: 795
Merit: 514
The obvious question would be, how can Monero be the 'only truly' fungible cryptocurrency, if there are other cryptonote coins with the same tech?  (and obviously there are other coins that claim to be fungible so 'truly' is subjective)

Monero is the only truly fungible cryptocurrency I'm interested in spending my time and energy on. Your opposition only makes my commitment harder.

ok.. for me that's missing any reason as to why Monero is the only truly fungible crypto, or how Monero is and other cryptonote coins are not.  Maybe there isn't a reasson, but I am open to finding out. It's taking quite a long time though......

It was already explained:

The obvious question would be, how can Monero be the 'only truly' fungible cryptocurrency, if there are other cryptonote coins with the same tech?  (and obviously there are other coins that claim to be fungible so 'truly' is subjective)

I already explained that, but I will again.

It's "truly" fungible because it's proven to be untraceable and unlinkable.

Bytecoin isn't fungible because they own almost every coin that you don't.

Show me another (non-scam) coin that has proven untraceability and unlinkability. I eagerly await your response.
sr. member
Activity: 392
Merit: 255

The obvious question would be, how can Monero be the 'only truly' fungible cryptocurrency, if there are other cryptonote coins with the same tech?  (and obviously there are other coins that claim to be fungible so 'truly' is subjective)

this is 17 pages, but you won't read it, but its needed in response to your cryptonote "history" chart:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/blowing-the-lid-off-the-cryptonotebytecoin-scam-with-the-exception-of-monero-740112

Regarding other cryptonote coins, I think monero is "truly" fungible because most of the others are scams wherein small numbers of individuals hold lotsa coins, therefore compromising the strength of ring signatures.

Regarding other cryptocurrencies, I think monero is "truly" fungible because it uses ring signatures to provide its fungibility.

OK, I will take that....  Thanks GingerAle..
legendary
Activity: 2968
Merit: 1198
Sure I'll go down the list for those reading along:

1. Bytecoin - obvious fraud
2. Budhacoin, Paladincoin - obvious frauds that didn't exist before a month or so ago, but claim to be from 2012-2013
3. Monero - no comment
4. Boolberry - not an obvious fraud but the developer has some unknown apparent tie to the original Bytecoin fraud. Apparently intended as a non-fraudulent project, but no open process and a month late, so never got much traction. Also some questionable "innovations" that don't necessarily improve anything (for example the developer is apparently dropping his PoW "improvement" in his new project).
5. Darknote - possibly tied to the original Bytecoin fraud, but not proven. Totally opaque process and little traction. Also the launch with an absurd name followed by a rename after the bulk of fast mining was pretty shady.
6. Quazarcoin, Mountcoin, Fantomcoin. All likely tied to Bytecoin. Late, no transparency, purchased dev accounts, no traction
7. rest - very late clones with no traction. Some may be tied to Bytecoin, unclear.

The technical value of Monero is 90% cryptonote (plus some other smaller things we done that are very popular with users such as deterministic wallets, or Monero-specific external projects such as MyMonero) and is 100% unique to the cryptonote ecosystem. The maturity, community, and development process value of Monero is 100% non-cryptonote and is entirely unique within the cryptonote ecosystem.


But I have seen you spending a lot of time on the Dashcoin thread trying to help them resurrect that, which is also Cryptonote, is that a scam too??

I've spent very little time on the dashcoin thread (maybe 15 minutes total, mostly encouraging the community to take care of itself) since responding to Evan's heavy handed actions in paying off its developer to abandon it. Anyway, included within:

Quote
7. rest - very late clones with no traction. Some may be tied to Bytecoin, unclear.
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