[XMR] Monero Speculation - page 1737.

smoothie

legendary

Activity: 2492

Merit: 1491

LEALANA Bitcoin Grim Reaper

Quote from: rpietila on September 28, 2015, 03:55:39 AM

I will be lecturing about investing to the junior college students in a few weeks. The course is all about investing (and maybe some entrepreneurship). Other guest lecturers are from banks.

I had thought to start the slideshow from a mock-up of a generic bank presentation, with title "diversification" and then 2 classes: stocks and bonds. Then the next slides would zoom this out so that eventually the listeners would realize that what was presented to them as the extent of diversification by the banks, would fit in a tiny corner of mainly-correlated instruments with mainly the same risk profile and total loss profile.

Sounds interesting. Please see if your presentation can be recorded and uploaded to the internet.

hodlmybtc

hero member

Activity: 700

Merit: 500

So where are all the <200k buyers who were screaming for <200k coins before the dumpage?

I bought all I wanted between 200k and 220k already, will get more BTC later this week to buy some more XMR.

languagehasmeaning

sr. member

Activity: 336

Merit: 250

Quote from: rpietila on September 28, 2015, 03:55:39 AM

I will be lecturing about investing to the junior college students in a few weeks. The course is all about investing (and maybe some entrepreneurship). Other guest lecturers are from banks.

I had thought to start the slideshow from a mock-up of a generic bank presentation, with title "diversification" and then 2 classes: stocks and bonds. Then the next slides would zoom this out so that eventually the listeners would realize that what was presented to them as the extent of diversification by the banks, would fit in a tiny corner of mainly-correlated instruments with mainly the same risk profile and total loss profile.

Nice job helping to redefine what most people consider diversification. Please share your slides with us afterwards.

rpietila

donator

Activity: 1722

Merit: 1036

I will be lecturing about investing to the junior college students in a few weeks. The course is all about investing (and maybe some entrepreneurship). Other guest lecturers are from banks.

I had thought to start the slideshow from a mock-up of a generic bank presentation, with title "diversification" and then 2 classes: stocks and bonds. Then the next slides would zoom this out so that eventually the listeners would realize that what was presented to them as the extent of diversification by the banks, would fit in a tiny corner of mainly-correlated instruments with mainly the same risk profile and total loss profile.

opennux

full member

Activity: 231

Merit: 100

Quote from: Johnny Mnemonic on September 27, 2015, 09:14:17 PM

Quote from: opennux on September 27, 2015, 01:15:53 AM

A right is something that is given to you. It can be taken away from you at a whim.

This is false. What you are describing is a privilege.

A right cannot be taken away... only violated. The enumeration in the U.S. Constitution does not create, grant, or define the rights of the people. It merely observes a few important ones (not to imply that all of the infinite unobserved rights are unimportant).

Alexander Hamilton was very much against the inclusion of the Bill of Rights, fearing the exact perspective quoted above—the implication that any right not observed is surrendered, or that the Constitution is defining The People's only protections, when in reality the Constitution places no limitations on The People, and explicitly defines the only powers the government shall ever have, because only people (not organizations) can have rights.

Quote from: Alexander Hamilton

I go further, and affirm, that Bills of Rights, in the sense and to the extent in which they are contended for, are not only unnecessary in the proposed Constitution, but would even be dangerous. They would contain various exceptions to powers not granted; and on this very account, would afford a colorable pretext to claim more than were granted. For why declare that things shall not be done which there is no power to do?

That's a whole larger discussion about semantics and the definition of rights that's probably not suitable here, nor do I really care to partake. Just don't conflate a freedom with a right. Note that there are large disagreements as to what "rights are". The original point still bears hearing; that no matter what you're promised, or what you think you're entitled to, it can be taken away from you by people with more power.

owm123

sr. member

Activity: 392

Merit: 250

Quote from: XMRpromotions on September 27, 2015, 11:36:05 PM

Quote from: GingerAle on September 27, 2015, 10:03:51 PM

C'mon man, thats not the monero way!

This is the monero way! >>> https://forum.getmonero.org/6/ideas/2392/privately-donate-to-privacy-oriented-services

Great idea, particularly the part about helping them get set up. Not every merchant and charity is tech savvy enough to do so on their own. I hope this idea gets funding (xmr and pledges for technical help) soon.

https://twitter.com/XMRpromotions/status/648353833769238528

Nice. Can you also post in on r/Monero?

XMRpromotions

sr. member

Activity: 336

Merit: 250

Quote from: GingerAle on September 27, 2015, 10:03:51 PM

C'mon man, thats not the monero way!

This is the monero way! >>> https://forum.getmonero.org/6/ideas/2392/privately-donate-to-privacy-oriented-services

Great idea, particularly the part about helping them get set up. Not every merchant and charity is tech savvy enough to do so on their own. I hope this idea gets funding (xmr and pledges for technical help) soon.

https://twitter.com/XMRpromotions/status/648353833769238528

owm123

sr. member

Activity: 392

Merit: 250

Quote from: phishead on September 27, 2015, 11:13:26 PM

Quote from: americanpegasus on September 27, 2015, 07:22:19 PM

Zerocoin / Zerocash / whatever it will be called has already had many of its flaws pointed out here.

The two most prominent ones are lack of a viewkey for regulatory compliance and the fact that all it will take is a single hack/severe bug (like Bitcoin faced in its early days), and the entire blockchain will be lost.

Monero really is as good as it gets for privacy. *If* (and that's a mighty big if) a mathematical way were found to have instant or near-instant confirmations + infinite scalability then that would be a major upgrade to Monero but so far I haven't seen anything that looks like it might legitimately accomplish this. Even if it was, the projects I am seeing attempt it make no real effort at privacy.

Monero gets stronger every day it exists... Hang in there - staying power is a real thing and we are growing.

For XMR to be almost "instant" in it's payouts, wouldn't that mean that there would have to be millions and millions of nodes running all at the same time? How many nodes does Monero have running as of right now?

I think the number is 300+ of full nodes.

Some are included here: http://moneronodes.i2p.xyz/
Note: Its beginning of week, so this stat is strange at the beginig always, as its is not fully populated. Yesterday it was 320 i think.

and 90+ listed here: https://monerohash.com/nodes-distribution.html

phishead

hero member

Activity: 1874

Merit: 840

Keep what's important, and know who's your friend

Quote from: americanpegasus on September 27, 2015, 07:22:19 PM

Zerocoin / Zerocash / whatever it will be called has already had many of its flaws pointed out here.

The two most prominent ones are lack of a viewkey for regulatory compliance and the fact that all it will take is a single hack/severe bug (like Bitcoin faced in its early days), and the entire blockchain will be lost.

Monero really is as good as it gets for privacy. *If* (and that's a mighty big if) a mathematical way were found to have instant or near-instant confirmations + infinite scalability then that would be a major upgrade to Monero but so far I haven't seen anything that looks like it might legitimately accomplish this. Even if it was, the projects I am seeing attempt it make no real effort at privacy.

Monero gets stronger every day it exists... Hang in there - staying power is a real thing and we are growing.

For XMR to be almost "instant" in it's payouts, wouldn't that mean that there would have to be millions and millions of nodes running all at the same time? How many nodes does Monero have running as of right now?

smoothie

legendary

Activity: 2492

Merit: 1491

LEALANA Bitcoin Grim Reaper

Quote from: owm123 on September 27, 2015, 08:00:17 PM

Quote from: americanpegasus on September 27, 2015, 07:22:19 PM

Zerocoin / Zerocash / whatever it will be called has already had many of its flaws pointed out here.

The two most prominent ones are lack of a viewkey for regulatory compliance and the fact that all it will take is a single hack/severe bug (like Bitcoin faced in its early days), and the entire blockchain will be lost.

Monero really is as good as it gets for privacy. *If* (and that's a mighty big if) a mathematical way were found to have instant or near-instant confirmations + infinite scalability then that would be a major upgrade to Monero but so far I haven't seen anything that looks like it might legitimately accomplish this. Even if it was, the projects I am seeing attempt it make no real effort at privacy.

Monero gets stronger every day it exists... Hang in there - staying power is a real thing and we are growing.

Bugs can also happen in Monero, so they are not limited to zerocash nor bitcoin, and view key is of secondary interest at the moment. Simply because you cant use monero to pay for anything, because no one is accepting it directly. So I doubt any company/service cares about view keys and regulatory compliance, if they even dont use monero.

Apparently vanilacoin has instant transactions. I dont know how it works, but it instant transaction seem possible. So maybe also possible to make it in monero.

Well currently bitcoin and monero have stood the test of at least 1.5 years (for monero) which says something even after being "attacked" by BCX.

Zerocoin/cash has not seen the light of day.

A view key is important as how will it achieve any legitimacy if purely it has to way of being transparent without giving away too many details for audit/tax purposes.

Just because a view key isn't used widely in that application doesn't mean it can't in the future.

It is better to be prepared and not need it than to be unprepared and need it down the road and it be too late.

GingerAle

legendary

Activity: 1260

Merit: 1008

Quote from: owm123 on September 27, 2015, 09:30:58 PM

Quote from: ArticMine on September 27, 2015, 08:56:08 PM

Quote from: owlcatz on September 27, 2015, 08:32:12 PM

...

Nobody takes monero? What?

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/for-sale-smoothies-hawaiian-property-1-acre-4-br3bath-1137407

Oh wait...

https://cryptonic.net/product/order/4/

However, I digress...

All coins tx's are "instant" , no matter what Coin... Confirmations are mandatory. Nothing has zero confirmation unless you are talking FIAT/Credit cards / Debit etc....

BTW, Are you a former paycoiner looking for the hyper-flex zero-confirmation blockchain or something? Tongue

Debit is instant. You must be kidding.

I meant service providers or internet shops. A monero dev selling or renting his house for xmr does not count, or exchanging virtual monero to physical monero also.

The zero acceptance of xmr is really depressing. Take Tor for example. You can donate to the Tor project with cyrpto, but, they dont directly accept xmr. No such option listed:
https://www.torservers.net/donate.html

Same goes for i2p: https://geti2p.net/en/get-involved/donate

One would think that such projects, which primary goal is privacy would understand and appreciate Monero's privacy features. But this is clearly not the case. The only way to use xmr to donate to them directly would be to write an email, asking kindly if they take your xmr. Otherwise they seem to be not interested.

So at the moment you cant even donate xmr directly to privacy oriented services, let alone buying something such as vpn or secure email.

And xmr.to does not count, as its easier to directly donate btc, i.e. btc->service, rather than go btc->xmr->xmr.to->btc->service.

C'mon man, thats not the monero way!

This is the monero way! >>> https://forum.getmonero.org/6/ideas/2392/privately-donate-to-privacy-oriented-services

owm123

sr. member

Activity: 392

Merit: 250

Quote from: ArticMine on September 27, 2015, 08:56:08 PM

Quote from: owlcatz on September 27, 2015, 08:32:12 PM

...

Nobody takes monero? What?

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/for-sale-smoothies-hawaiian-property-1-acre-4-br3bath-1137407

Oh wait...

https://cryptonic.net/product/order/4/

However, I digress...

All coins tx's are "instant" , no matter what Coin... Confirmations are mandatory. Nothing has zero confirmation unless you are talking FIAT/Credit cards / Debit etc....

BTW, Are you a former paycoiner looking for the hyper-flex zero-confirmation blockchain or something? Tongue

Debit is instant. You must be kidding.

I meant service providers or internet shops. A monero dev selling or renting his house for xmr does not count, or exchanging virtual monero to physical monero also.

The zero acceptance of xmr is really depressing. Take Tor for example. You can donate to the Tor project with cyrpto, but, they dont directly accept xmr. No such option listed:
https://www.torservers.net/donate.html

Same goes for i2p: https://geti2p.net/en/get-involved/donate

One would think that such projects, which primary goal is privacy would understand and appreciate Monero's privacy features. But this is clearly not the case. The only way to use xmr to donate to them directly would be to write an email, asking kindly if they take your xmr. Otherwise they seem to be not interested.

So at the moment you cant even donate xmr directly to privacy oriented services, let alone buying something such as vpn or secure email.

And xmr.to does not count, as its easier to directly donate btc, i.e. btc->service, rather than go btc->xmr->xmr.to->btc->service.

newb4now

hero member

Activity: 686

Merit: 500

Quote from: kazuki49 on September 27, 2015, 09:10:17 PM

Quote from: jehst on September 27, 2015, 05:32:53 PM

https://twitter.com/matthew_d_green/status/648221218773049344

Quote from: Matthew Green

A few people have asked about Zerocash. I've been keeping quiet about this because we're working hard, not because it's been dropped.

Planned Release Date: February.

This is interesting.

This is great news if true, finally the circle of cryptocurrencies is complete, and like I have said many times before, I have no doubts Monero will keep being the best option since it offeres total privacy with optional transparency and accountability only where it really matters (block rewards, coins in circulation, etc)

btw "instant transactions" is totally overrated and I would take a coin that backs transaction confirmation with POW over anything else.

I agree about PoW. Instant transactions may indeed be far less secure (more research is needed). I like the safe approach that Monero is taking.

From my understanding optional transparency (view key) will be impossible with zerocash

Johnny Mnemonic

hero member

Activity: 795

Merit: 514

Quote from: opennux on September 27, 2015, 01:15:53 AM

A right is something that is given to you. It can be taken away from you at a whim.

This is false. What you are describing is a privilege.

A right cannot be taken away... only violated. The enumeration in the U.S. Constitution does not create, grant, or define the rights of the people. It merely observes a few important ones (not to imply that all of the infinite unobserved rights are unimportant).

Alexander Hamilton was very much against the inclusion of the Bill of Rights, fearing the exact perspective quoted above—the implication that any right not observed is surrendered, or that the Constitution is defining The People's only protections, when in reality the Constitution places no limitations on The People, and explicitly defines the only powers the government shall ever have, because only people (not organizations) can have rights.

Quote from: Alexander Hamilton

I go further, and affirm, that Bills of Rights, in the sense and to the extent in which they are contended for, are not only unnecessary in the proposed Constitution, but would even be dangerous. They would contain various exceptions to powers not granted; and on this very account, would afford a colorable pretext to claim more than were granted. For why declare that things shall not be done which there is no power to do?

kazuki49

sr. member

Activity: 350

Merit: 250

Quote from: jehst on September 27, 2015, 05:32:53 PM

https://twitter.com/matthew_d_green/status/648221218773049344

Quote from: Matthew Green

A few people have asked about Zerocash. I've been keeping quiet about this because we're working hard, not because it's been dropped.

Planned Release Date: February.

This is interesting.

This is great news if true, finally the circle of cryptocurrencies is complete, and like I have said many times before, I have no doubts Monero will keep being the best option since it offeres total privacy with optional transparency and accountability only where it really matters (block rewards, coins in circulation, etc)

btw "instant transactions" is totally overrated and I would take a coin that backs transaction confirmation with POW over anything else.

ArticMine

legendary

Activity: 2282

Merit: 1050

Monero Core Team

Quote from: owlcatz on September 27, 2015, 08:32:12 PM

...

Nobody takes monero? What?

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/for-sale-smoothies-hawaiian-property-1-acre-4-br3bath-1137407

Oh wait...

https://cryptonic.net/product/order/4/

However, I digress...

All coins tx's are "instant" , no matter what Coin... Confirmations are mandatory. Nothing has zero confirmation unless you are talking FIAT/Credit cards / Debit etc....

BTW, Are you a former paycoiner looking for the hyper-flex zero-confirmation blockchain or something? Tongue

Debit is instant. You must be kidding.

owlcatz

legendary

Activity: 3570

Merit: 1959

Quote from: owm123 on September 27, 2015, 08:00:17 PM

Quote from: americanpegasus on September 27, 2015, 07:22:19 PM

Zerocoin / Zerocash / whatever it will be called has already had many of its flaws pointed out here.

The two most prominent ones are lack of a viewkey for regulatory compliance and the fact that all it will take is a single hack/severe bug (like Bitcoin faced in its early days), and the entire blockchain will be lost.

Monero really is as good as it gets for privacy. *If* (and that's a mighty big if) a mathematical way were found to have instant or near-instant confirmations + infinite scalability then that would be a major upgrade to Monero but so far I haven't seen anything that looks like it might legitimately accomplish this. Even if it was, the projects I am seeing attempt it make no real effort at privacy.

Monero gets stronger every day it exists... Hang in there - staying power is a real thing and we are growing.

Bugs can also happen in Monero, so they are not limited to zerocash nor bitcoin, and view key is of secondary interest at the moment. Simply because you cant use monero to pay for anything, because no one is accepting it directly. So I doubt any company/service cares about view keys and regulatory compliance, if they even dont use monero.

Apparently vanilacoin has instant transactions. I dont know how it works, but it instant transaction seem possible. So maybe also possible to make it in monero.

Nobody takes monero? What?

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/for-sale-smoothies-hawaiian-property-1-acre-4-br3bath-1137407

Oh wait...

https://cryptonic.net/product/order/4/

However, I digress...

All coins tx's are "instant" , no matter what Coin... Confirmations are mandatory. Nothing has zero confirmation unless you are talking FIAT/Credit cards / Debit etc....

BTW, Are you a former paycoiner looking for the hyper-flex zero-confirmation blockchain or something? Tongue

owm123

sr. member

Activity: 392

Merit: 250

Quote from: americanpegasus on September 27, 2015, 07:22:19 PM

Zerocoin / Zerocash / whatever it will be called has already had many of its flaws pointed out here.

The two most prominent ones are lack of a viewkey for regulatory compliance and the fact that all it will take is a single hack/severe bug (like Bitcoin faced in its early days), and the entire blockchain will be lost.

Monero really is as good as it gets for privacy. *If* (and that's a mighty big if) a mathematical way were found to have instant or near-instant confirmations + infinite scalability then that would be a major upgrade to Monero but so far I haven't seen anything that looks like it might legitimately accomplish this. Even if it was, the projects I am seeing attempt it make no real effort at privacy.

Monero gets stronger every day it exists... Hang in there - staying power is a real thing and we are growing.

Bugs can also happen in Monero, so they are not limited to zerocash nor bitcoin, and view key is of secondary interest at the moment. Simply because you cant use monero to pay for anything, because no one is accepting it directly. So I doubt any company/service cares about view keys and regulatory compliance, if they even dont use monero.

Apparently vanilacoin has instant transactions. I dont know how it works, but it instant transaction seem possible. So maybe also possible to make it in monero.

jwinterm

legendary

Activity: 3164

Merit: 1116

Quote from: americanpegasus on September 27, 2015, 07:22:19 PM

Zerocoin / Zerocash / whatever it will be called has already had many of its flaws pointed out here.

The two most prominent ones are lack of a viewkey for regulatory compliance and the fact that all it will take is a single hack/severe bug (like Bitcoin faced in its early days), and the entire blockchain will be lost.
...

I love Monero as much as the next trollero, but it seems as if some/all of these issues may be solved/solvable.

Quote

1) Yes, there was recently a paper about trustless distributed zkSNARK setup requiring only one honest participant to function securely. "Secure Sampling of Public Parameters for Succinct Zero Knowledge Proofs" by Eli Ben-Sasson.

2) No, but that's inherent to any niZKP system. With confidential transactions, it's also impossible to tell if bug that allows Pederson commitment overflow has occurred and coins are generated out of nowhere.

3) In ZeroCash you can prepare and present a proof showing your intended destination and the amount of funds you received and sent, so yes, it is auditable.

ZeroCash has a rather large development team as of Q1 of this year, but they're being very hush-hush about it.

Source: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3mea6b/bitpay_is_blacklisting_certain_bitcoins_rejecting/cveh7lx

americanpegasus

hero member

Activity: 770

Merit: 504

Zerocoin / Zerocash / whatever it will be called has already had many of its flaws pointed out here.

The two most prominent ones are lack of a viewkey for regulatory compliance and the fact that all it will take is a single hack/severe bug (like Bitcoin faced in its early days), and the entire blockchain will be lost.

Monero really is as good as it gets for privacy. *If* (and that's a mighty big if) a mathematical way were found to have instant or near-instant confirmations + infinite scalability then that would be a major upgrade to Monero but so far I haven't seen anything that looks like it might legitimately accomplish this. Even if it was, the projects I am seeing attempt it make no real effort at privacy.

Monero gets stronger every day it exists... Hang in there - staying power is a real thing and we are growing.

Topic: [XMR] Monero Speculation - page 1737. (Read 3313576 times)