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Topic: [XMR] Monero Speculation - page 1739. (Read 3313576 times)

legendary
Activity: 2492
Merit: 1491
LEALANA Bitcoin Grim Reaper
September 26, 2015, 11:57:52 PM
Oh no.. we gotta stop this conversation. We're tanking the price!  Cheesy

I prefer the blocksize debate and the question of how a fee market can develop when there is no block subsidy. These are over the long term very serious issues in Bitcoin that are for the most part ignored. Monero has a working solution to both these issues right now. Furthermore Monero is the only POW coin in the top 20 that has a solution.

Let the price go down....time to get some cheap XMRs...NOM NOM NOM.  Cheesy
legendary
Activity: 2492
Merit: 1491
LEALANA Bitcoin Grim Reaper
September 26, 2015, 11:56:49 PM

If such legit merchant processors as Bitpay and Coinbase reject dirty BTC, why do you think any crypto transaction processor will accept XMR payments if everyone knows that XMR is widely used for dark deals?

The laws in every country are different and will impact the decisions of companies like Bitpay. If enough companies start to blacklist BTC then the acceleration to alternatives such as Monero will accelerate

In the field of AML/KYC/Anti-terrorism all countries laws are relatively similar, so don`t expect that big companies will invest in stealth digital currencies. So stealth currencies will only be used in dark markets which is a very limited frame of usage.  

I think the same they were saying about bitcoin at the beginning. And off course it was and still is used for this. If it was used for legit purposes only, you wound not have any drama with anyone rejecting it or were required to mix coins to make it 'less tainted'.

And "encryption will only be used for illegal activity" - disregarding just about everyone benefitting from it today.

I suppose the point is that a thief beliefs everybody steals. Some are willing to forego all the benefits that come as long as the negative things are avoided (which they never are, and it is debatable to which degree different "negative things" really are that negative, such as dark net markets). Likely because they can't see the potential benefits and/or they will lose power from a change in status quo.

That logic is flawed as PRIVACY in the US and by the constitution is a RIGHT. It isn't illegal. Just BS politicians wanting to be nosy so they can peak into your privacy and see what you are doing as they dont want people to challenge the status quo.
sr. member
Activity: 392
Merit: 250
September 26, 2015, 11:17:00 PM
I think that it is for this reason, the world governments, especially the USA, being against privacy, that Monero would probably not be as widely accepted as Bitcoin, but that's not to say it won't be more widely accepted. It think Monero potentially can become as widely accepted as Litecoin.

The sad fact is that nobody cares about privacy. People are fat and complacent sheep. I asked all my friends and family to install an encrypted text message app and guess how many actually installed it? ZERO. It is a very easy to use app (Signal for iOS and textsecure for Android) so I don't understand why they won't do it.

I can understand not using encrpyted PGP email, even I cannot figure out how to install and use it!! But textsecure and Signal are easy to use, just like normal text messages.

Even in the American revolution, only 3 PERCENT fought or supported the revolution against the British. The other 97 percent just didn't care. Today, the percentage that just don't care is probably 99.9 percent. I remember, during the Vietnam war, there were massive anti-war protests. Where are these protests against the fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan now? People just don't care.

That's why Snowden is a martyr and a superhero. Honestly, if I were him, I would've just shut up and accepted my $300,000 USD per year job working for the NSA. People just don't care about his sacrifice. He's basically under house arrest for life. For what? For the masses who don't care if they are enslaved sheep.

Anyways, my point is Monero will never be the next Bitcoin, but it could replace Litecoin because most people don't care about freedom and privacy. They just want to get fed, drive nice cars, and be fat and happy. Monero could increase greatly in value, maybe 10 to 20x in value, but not 1000 times the value.

P.S. Understand that this is not a knock against Monero. I like it a lot. I am actually programming an app for Monero for people to buy and sell stuff, just like ebay, but better because I want to offer services, too, not just the sales of goods. In order for Monero to be accepted, we have to be like Amir Taaki and code apps that increase the demand for Monero, just like Amir Taaki did for Bitcoin. I think Spagni's (fluffypony) new dice gambling site for Monero is a step in that direction.


You are absolutely right. Monero will never be number one, nor even number two or three, imo. But hopefully it will  be used by fraction of people and internet service providers who actually care about privacy. Just like tutanota or protnomail cant be number one or two among the email providers. The thing is, they dont have to be #1 or #2 to be profitable and successful. As long as there is a fraction of gmail and hotmail users to use them, they can be successful.
full member
Activity: 168
Merit: 100
September 26, 2015, 10:44:25 PM
I think that it is for this reason, the world governments, especially the USA, being against privacy, that Monero would probably not be as widely accepted as Bitcoin, but that's not to say it won't be more widely accepted. It think Monero potentially can become as widely accepted as Litecoin.

The sad fact is that nobody cares about privacy. People are fat and complacent sheep. I asked all my friends and family to install an encrypted text message app and guess how many actually installed it? ZERO. It is a very easy to use app (Signal for iOS and textsecure for Android) so I don't understand why they won't do it.

I can understand not using encrpyted PGP email, even I cannot figure out how to install and use it!! But textsecure and Signal are easy to use, just like normal text messages.

Even in the American revolution, only 3 PERCENT fought or supported the revolution against the British. The other 97 percent just didn't care. Today, the percentage that just don't care is probably 99.9 percent. I remember, during the Vietnam war, there were massive anti-war protests. Where are these protests against the fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan now? People just don't care.

That's why Snowden is a martyr and a superhero. Honestly, if I were him, I would've just shut up and accepted my $300,000 USD per year job working for the NSA. People just don't care about his sacrifice. He's basically under house arrest for life. For what? For the masses who don't care if they are enslaved sheep.

Anyways, my point is Monero will never be the next Bitcoin, but it could replace Litecoin because most people don't care about freedom and privacy. They just want to get fed, drive nice cars, and be fat and happy. Monero could increase greatly in value, maybe 10 to 20x in value, but not 1000 times the value.

P.S. Understand that this is not a knock against Monero. I like it a lot. I am actually programming an app for Monero for people to buy and sell stuff, just like ebay, but better because I want to offer services, too, not just the sales of goods. In order for Monero to be accepted, we have to be like Amir Taaki and code apps that increase the demand for Monero, just like Amir Taaki did for Bitcoin. I think Spagni's (fluffypony) new dice gambling site for Monero is a step in that direction.


The purpose of xmr is to protect one's privacy. This is at least my understanding. I dont view monero as a bitcoin killer or even a litecoin killer. Its there with one main purpose, to ensure everone a right to privacy. Not everyone cares about privacy. So bitcoin is not going anywhere anytime soon. But there are people that value their privacy. For them monero is a perfect solution.

Also, there is no reason to use monero for tax evasion, or to think about it as being desing for this purpose. In monero you have view keys, to disclose the transactions when needed. So a merchant or a person can keep their transactions privet from other merchants or people, but be fully transparent to tax office to which he/she can provide its view keys.


Companies and governments determine what money they accept, and what company or government is going to want a money that links them to all their activities for all time?

Yes, companies and governments decide, and they will not allow anonymous or even psedoanynomouse cruptocurrency to be "officially" used which is not controlled by government/company.

In Russia, for example, they already want to launch their own cyrpto, approved by government. The  "BitRuble will not be pseudo-anonymous like bitcoin due to the aforementioned Anti-Money Laundering (AML) and Know-Your-Customer (KYC) policies pursued by the regulator".

Its super easy for government to force ppl to use their 'own' cyryptocurrency. Its enough that they will pass laws requiring merchants to accept NSAcoin or whatever coin (or employers to pay salaries with such a coin) that the government can track and control.


Not every country will do this. Some countries that care about privacy (like Switzerland or something) might go the opposite way and embrace something like Monero in an attempt to attract privacy focused businesses (like shapeshift) who are seeking a new home.

In the future people may immigrate to new countries for privacy reasons.

Under the USA and EU pressure Switzerland has modified its legislation. They offer no more numbered accounts and they exchange client datum with USA and other countries.

Other offshore countries also begin accepting AEOI rules under USA pressure.
sr. member
Activity: 392
Merit: 250
September 26, 2015, 09:37:50 PM
Oh no.. we gotta stop this conversation. We're tanking the price!  Cheesy

Its good time to buy now:-)
legendary
Activity: 2282
Merit: 1050
Monero Core Team
September 26, 2015, 08:18:30 PM
Oh no.. we gotta stop this conversation. We're tanking the price!  Cheesy

I prefer the blocksize debate and the question of how a fee market can develop when there is no block subsidy. These are over the long term very serious issues in Bitcoin that are for the most part ignored. Monero has a working solution to both these issues right now. Furthermore Monero is the only POW coin in the top 20 that has a solution.
full member
Activity: 231
Merit: 100
September 26, 2015, 07:38:24 PM
Oh no.. we gotta stop this conversation. We're tanking the price!  Cheesy
full member
Activity: 231
Merit: 100
September 26, 2015, 07:13:06 PM

If such legit merchant processors as Bitpay and Coinbase reject dirty BTC, why do you think any crypto transaction processor will accept XMR payments if everyone knows that XMR is widely used for dark deals?

The laws in every country are different and will impact the decisions of companies like Bitpay. If enough companies start to blacklist BTC then the acceleration to alternatives such as Monero will accelerate

In the field of AML/KYC/Anti-terrorism all countries laws are relatively similar, so don`t expect that big companies will invest in stealth digital currencies. So stealth currencies will only be used in dark markets which is a very limited frame of usage.  

I think the same they were saying about bitcoin at the beginning. And off course it was and still is used for this. If it was used for legit purposes only, you wound not have any drama with anyone rejecting it or were required to mix coins to make it 'less tainted'.

And "encryption will only be used for illegal activity" - disregarding just about everyone benefitting from it today.

I suppose the point is that a thief beliefs everybody steals. Some are willing to forego all the benefits that come as long as the negative things are avoided (which they never are, and it is debatable to which degree different "negative things" really are that negative, such as dark net markets). Likely because they can't see the potential benefits and/or they will lose power from a change in status quo.
sr. member
Activity: 392
Merit: 250
September 26, 2015, 06:56:12 PM

If such legit merchant processors as Bitpay and Coinbase reject dirty BTC, why do you think any crypto transaction processor will accept XMR payments if everyone knows that XMR is widely used for dark deals?

The laws in every country are different and will impact the decisions of companies like Bitpay. If enough companies start to blacklist BTC then the acceleration to alternatives such as Monero will accelerate

In the field of AML/KYC/Anti-terrorism all countries laws are relatively similar, so don`t expect that big companies will invest in stealth digital currencies. So stealth currencies will only be used in dark markets which is a very limited frame of usage.  

I think the same they were saying about bitcoin at the beginning. And off course it was and still is used for this. If it was used for legit purposes only, you wound not have any drama with anyone rejecting it or were required to mix coins to make it 'less tainted'.
sr. member
Activity: 378
Merit: 250
September 26, 2015, 05:59:50 PM
Another nice PR just came in Smiley https://github.com/monero-project/bitmonero/pull/407

I think this implements the changes recommended by the Monero Research Lab in MRL-0004

Very nice!

I will take a look a little bit later
legendary
Activity: 2268
Merit: 1141
September 26, 2015, 05:06:42 PM
Another nice PR just came in Smiley https://github.com/monero-project/bitmonero/pull/407

I think this implements the changes recommended by the Monero Research Lab in MRL-0004
legendary
Activity: 2492
Merit: 1491
LEALANA Bitcoin Grim Reaper
September 26, 2015, 03:11:17 PM
Anon coins are created for dark markets. Believe me no one will use XMR which does not even have a direct fiat-xmr exchange for legal purposes Cheesy  For legal activity there is BTC which can be very easily purchased.

So if something provides anonymity and privacy than it must be created for illegal stuff? You talking exactly like idiots from USA government about encryption.



What monero does is it takes power away from government and give it to the people. It is view as "bad" only because now the powers that be can't push their weight around as much with out evidence of wrong doing.

People are the only reason governments exist (via taxation of the people).

legendary
Activity: 2492
Merit: 1491
LEALANA Bitcoin Grim Reaper
September 26, 2015, 03:09:02 PM
in fact, the service I described might actually be what banks become - auditing services. Centralized repositories of transaction data. So if big company X wants to do business with big company Y, they will pay some fee for First National Bank of Monero to inform them that their account in the blockchain is in good standing.

In essence, these services are still "banks", they are just banks of information... (which is kind of what they are today, just abstracted via money)

In some ways it is misunderstanding what banks are today. Banks are not predominantly retail banks anymore (or at least that is not how they make the majority of their money), they are predominantly investment banks.


i.e. Zombie banks
newbie
Activity: 28
Merit: 0
September 26, 2015, 11:49:21 AM
Nobody would bother to rewrite the cryptonote white paper in such as way as to make it look like something new except a scammer.

Apparently the fact that they are claiming to have released code implementing it when they haven't supports this too.
sr. member
Activity: 392
Merit: 250
September 26, 2015, 08:46:37 AM
Anon coins are created for dark markets. Believe me no one will use XMR which does not even have a direct fiat-xmr exchange for legal purposes Cheesy  For legal activity there is BTC which can be very easily purchased.

So if something provides anonymity and privacy than it must be created for illegal stuff? You talking exactly like idiots from USA government about encryption.
full member
Activity: 231
Merit: 100
September 26, 2015, 07:58:28 AM
in fact, the service I described might actually be what banks become - auditing services. Centralized repositories of transaction data. So if big company X wants to do business with big company Y, they will pay some fee for First National Bank of Monero to inform them that their account in the blockchain is in good standing.

In essence, these services are still "banks", they are just banks of information... (which is kind of what they are today, just abstracted via money)

In some ways it is misunderstanding what banks are today. Banks are not predominantly retail banks anymore (or at least that is not how they make the majority of their money), they are predominantly investment banks.
full member
Activity: 231
Merit: 100
September 26, 2015, 07:52:13 AM

If such legit merchant processors as Bitpay and Coinbase reject dirty BTC, why do you think any crypto transaction processor will accept XMR payments if everyone knows that XMR is widely used for dark deals?

Can you substantiate that claim?

Anon coins are created for dark markets. Believe me no one will use XMR which does not even have a direct fiat-xmr exchange for legal purposes Cheesy  For legal activity there is BTC which can be very easily purchased.

Privacy has tons of benefits not relating to dark markets at all. Would you publish your bank account balance, payroll and supplier payment data on a transparent blockchain for all your competitors to see? The answer should be obvious

Yes, the answer is obvious but it is also obvious that anon coin will be mainly used for illegal activities. So do you think governments will allow anon coins while they know they breach AML policies?

Some years ago people were hiding their bank account balances, payroll and supplier payment data in offshore banks but currently there are no more offshores guaranteeing privacy. They all accepted AEOI rules under USA pressure. 

That is the classic approach. That is what people said about the internet, about cars, about most new technology. Sure, often it's those who do nefarious activities that want to utilise new technologies - as will enthusiast and then the rest of everyone else. Most things can be used for good. The same with untraceable crypto-currencies. Most use-cases are positive, good for society and mankind.

It's a precarious case for those in power, because the more they stomp the better the technology becomes. And much faster.
hero member
Activity: 744
Merit: 500
September 26, 2015, 06:31:59 AM

If such legit merchant processors as Bitpay and Coinbase reject dirty BTC, why do you think any crypto transaction processor will accept XMR payments if everyone knows that XMR is widely used for dark deals?

Can you substantiate that claim?

Anon coins are created for dark markets. Believe me no one will use XMR which does not even have a direct fiat-xmr exchange for legal purposes Cheesy  For legal activity there is BTC which can be very easily purchased.

Privacy has tons of benefits not relating to dark markets at all. Would you publish your bank account balance, payroll and supplier payment data on a transparent blockchain for all your competitors to see? The answer should be obvious

Yes, the answer is obvious but it is also obvious that anon coin will be mainly used for illegal activities. So do you think governments will allow anon coins while they know they breach AML policies?

Some years ago people were hiding their bank account balances, payroll and supplier payment data in offshore banks but currently there are no more offshores guaranteeing privacy. They all accepted AEOI rules under USA pressure. 

XMR, luckily, doesn't have to break AML policies. One can imagine some future auditing service wherein some company gets your viewkey. They can then see every incoming transaction to your account. If you can't provide details regarding where that money came from, then you're in trouble. If you can, then your compliant. Of course, this doesn't stop one from having multiple XMR accounts, but this "problem" also exists in bitcoin, and to some extent the contemporary banking system. Granted, its very difficult to get a contemporary bank account without using some form of identification... but moral of the story is, if "they" let bitcoin exist, there's no reason to squash Monero if "they" figure out how to properly implement viewkeys.

Yeah, it`s probably the most reasonable stance!
legendary
Activity: 2492
Merit: 1491
LEALANA Bitcoin Grim Reaper
September 26, 2015, 06:23:17 AM

If such legit merchant processors as Bitpay and Coinbase reject dirty BTC, why do you think any crypto transaction processor will accept XMR payments if everyone knows that XMR is widely used for dark deals?

Can you substantiate that claim?

Anon coins are created for dark markets. Believe me no one will use XMR which does not even have a direct fiat-xmr exchange for legal purposes Cheesy  For legal activity there is BTC which can be very easily purchased.

Privacy has tons of benefits not relating to dark markets at all. Would you publish your bank account balance, payroll and supplier payment data on a transparent blockchain for all your competitors to see? The answer should be obvious

Yes, the answer is obvious but it is also obvious that anon coin will be mainly used for illegal activities. So do you think governments will allow anon coins while they know they breach AML policies?

Some years ago people were hiding their bank account balances, payroll and supplier payment data in offshore banks but currently there are no more offshores guaranteeing privacy. They all accepted AEOI rules under USA pressure.  

Bitcoin was so much "associated" with drug dealers and criminal online activity by the media.

The same functionality is used for USD and every other fiat currency out there.

Just because spoons are used to help make meth, doesn't mean that spoons are bad and people shouldn't use spoons.

Same goes for monero, bitcoin, cash etc. Just because people use it for a bad purpose does not mean that people shouldn't use it and can't use it for transacting.

As I said you can be completely transparent with your monero transactions if you consent to it with an auditing party or regulatory official(s) with your VIEW KEY.
legendary
Activity: 2492
Merit: 1491
LEALANA Bitcoin Grim Reaper
September 26, 2015, 06:20:26 AM

If such legit merchant processors as Bitpay and Coinbase reject dirty BTC, why do you think any crypto transaction processor will accept XMR payments if everyone knows that XMR is widely used for dark deals?

Can you substantiate that claim?

Anon coins are created for dark markets. Believe me no one will use XMR which does not even have a direct fiat-xmr exchange for legal purposes Cheesy  For legal activity there is BTC which can be very easily purchased.

Wrong. Monero has the ability to allow complete transparency if you choose to give it up.

VIEW KEY.

Just because the smoke screen is on by default and you can't see anything doesn't mean it can't be lifted if there is a need.
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