[XMR] Monero Speculation - page 1743.

rikkejohn

hero member

Activity: 644

Merit: 500

Quote from: iCEBREAKER on September 24, 2015, 06:21:05 PM

Quote from: Minotaur26 on September 24, 2015, 11:18:14 AM

Dash Masternodes are not a ponzi for one main reason there is a fix percentage of the block rewards that is divided between all masternodes

MadoffNode percentage of the block reward is not fixed.

The percentage depends on the vagaries of whales 'voting' in new violations of the previous social contract, like for example SuperBlocks.

Nothing in Dash is fixed, certainly not the bolloxed emission, and not even the brand (formerly Xcoin, formerly Darkcoin). Everything is subject to the whims of its single core dev, which change as often and with as much reason as the wind.

Dash is whatever eduffield does. It's one dude's vanity project dressed up like a legitimate coin for marketing purposes.

That is what you call rhetoric over reasoned argument.

There are too many high ranked members backing this coin to make it appear legitimate. I am alleging, not stating it is true, that half are bought.= accounts.

100 BTC you can have mine. Okay, 90 BTC.

iCEBREAKER

legendary

Activity: 2156

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Crypto is the separation of Power and State.

Quote from: Minotaur26 on September 24, 2015, 11:18:14 AM

Dash Masternodes are not a ponzi for one main reason there is a fix percentage of the block rewards that is divided between all masternodes

MadoffNode percentage of the block reward is not fixed.

The percentage depends on the vagaries of whales 'voting' in new violations of the previous social contract, like for example SuperBlocks.

Nothing in Dash is fixed, certainly not the bolloxed emission, and not even the brand (formerly Xcoin, formerly Darkcoin). Everything is subject to the whims of its single core dev, which change as often and with as much reason as the wind.

Dash is whatever eduffield does. It's one dude's vanity project dressed up like a legitimate coin for marketing purposes.

rikkejohn

hero member

Activity: 644

Merit: 500

Why did it not go on cryptopia? It won the vote.

newb4now

hero member

Activity: 686

Merit: 500

Quote from: dEBRUYNE on September 24, 2015, 04:36:07 PM

Crosspost worthy from the official forum:

Quote from: GingerAle

I'm going to start this thread as a precursor for additions to the official website section.

Check that a recipient has received your funds:

http://xmrtests.llcoins.net/checktx.html

Tools for monero address generation

http://xmrtests.llcoins.net/addresstests.html

Quote from: luigi1111

If anything is funky/not working as expected with those pages, please let me know. You can also save the webpage and use it offline (or at least locally in case the online version got compromised).

Nice resources! Thank you very much

dEBRUYNE

legendary

Activity: 2268

Merit: 1141

Quote from: luigi1111 on September 24, 2015, 05:32:14 PM

Quote from: dEBRUYNE on September 24, 2015, 04:36:07 PM

Crosspost worthy from the official forum:

Quote from: GingerAle

I'm going to start this thread as a precursor for additions to the official website section.

Check that a recipient has received your funds:

http://xmrtests.llcoins.net/checktx.html

Tools for monero address generation

http://xmrtests.llcoins.net/addresstests.html

Quote from: luigi1111

If anything is funky/not working as expected with those pages, please let me know. You can also save the webpage and use it offline (or at least locally in case the online version got compromised).

Also, if someone skilled with CSS wants to pretty the pages up, please contact me!

Edit: I speculate nothing.

Edit2: Except I did buy some Monero yesterday (TC style! (or do I have to post amounts for that?)).

Only if you're going to dump in a few days, so we can prepare!

luigi1111

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Activity: 1105

Merit: 1000

Quote from: dEBRUYNE on September 24, 2015, 04:36:07 PM

Crosspost worthy from the official forum:

Quote from: GingerAle

I'm going to start this thread as a precursor for additions to the official website section.

Check that a recipient has received your funds:

http://xmrtests.llcoins.net/checktx.html

Tools for monero address generation

http://xmrtests.llcoins.net/addresstests.html

Quote from: luigi1111

If anything is funky/not working as expected with those pages, please let me know. You can also save the webpage and use it offline (or at least locally in case the online version got compromised).

Also, if someone skilled with CSS wants to pretty the pages up, please contact me!

Edit: I speculate nothing.

Edit2: Except I did buy some Monero yesterday (TC style! (or do I have to post amounts for that?)).

smooth

legendary

Activity: 2968

Merit: 1198

Quote from: dEBRUYNE on September 24, 2015, 04:31:19 PM

Quote from: smooth on September 24, 2015, 04:23:26 PM

Quote from: Hueristic on September 24, 2015, 12:03:27 PM

Quote from: jehst on September 24, 2015, 11:29:13 AM

... There should be something that's soaking up coins. Something besides speculation.

This is still the accumulation and development cycle, down the road (years) there can be no instamine accusations with this distribution model. Anyone can buy in right now and be on a level playing field. I expect another year before XMR is ready for prime time at current rate. And that is with ongoing non stop development that is happening as we speak. There is so much work going on under the hood right now that anyone not accumulating this emission as it's dumped will be crying like everyone that missed BTC.

I agree with both of you. More good reasons to want to own and use the coin are better for the coin. That includes (but certainly not limited to) more investors. While it is true that time will help, that can be self defeating if everyone says "this will be solved in the future" and no one actually does anything to solve it.

I agree with you on the bolded part in general. However, aren't we currently countering this in Monero by funding part time developers and other significant proposals? I actually have the feeling the development, opposed to the begining of the year, is gaining some traction. I think the community is smart enough to comprehend that, whilst time will help, we also need to put in effort ourselves. One way or another.

Yes I agree. Just clarifying that actually doing things is important not just waiting for "down the road (years)" for the golden donkey to arrive. Many are in fact doing things, as you correctly point out.

dEBRUYNE

legendary

Activity: 2268

Merit: 1141

Another one, an update from our part time developer tewinget on documentation and cleanup of source code.

https://forum.getmonero.org/9/work-in-progress/2373/documentation-and-cleanup-of-source-code?page=&noscroll=1#post-4033

dEBRUYNE

legendary

Activity: 2268

Merit: 1141

Crosspost worthy from the official forum:

Quote from: GingerAle

I'm going to start this thread as a precursor for additions to the official website section.

Check that a recipient has received your funds:

http://xmrtests.llcoins.net/checktx.html

Tools for monero address generation

http://xmrtests.llcoins.net/addresstests.html

Quote from: luigi1111

If anything is funky/not working as expected with those pages, please let me know. You can also save the webpage and use it offline (or at least locally in case the online version got compromised).

dEBRUYNE

legendary

Activity: 2268

Merit: 1141

Quote from: smooth on September 24, 2015, 04:23:26 PM

Quote from: Hueristic on September 24, 2015, 12:03:27 PM

Quote from: jehst on September 24, 2015, 11:29:13 AM

... There should be something that's soaking up coins. Something besides speculation.

This is still the accumulation and development cycle, down the road (years) there can be no instamine accusations with this distribution model. Anyone can buy in right now and be on a level playing field. I expect another year before XMR is ready for prime time at current rate. And that is with ongoing non stop development that is happening as we speak. There is so much work going on under the hood right now that anyone not accumulating this emission as it's dumped will be crying like everyone that missed BTC.

I agree with both of you. More good reasons to want to own and use the coin are better for the coin. That includes (but certainly not limited to) more investors. While it is true that time will help, that can be self defeating if everyone says "this will be solved in the future" and no one actually does anything to solve it.

I agree with you on the bolded part in general. However, aren't we currently countering this in Monero by funding part time developers and other significant proposals? I actually have the feeling the development, opposed to the begining of the year, is gaining some traction. I think the community is smart enough to comprehend that, whilst time will help, we also need to put in effort ourselves. One way or another.

smooth

legendary

Activity: 2968

Merit: 1198

Quote from: Minotaur26 on September 24, 2015, 11:18:14 AM

Just for the sake of accuracy, Dash Masternodes are not a ponzi for one main reason there is a fix percentage of the block rewards that is divided between all masternodes, as more join the network the reward for a node is less and less, tending to zero and finding equilibrium. So completely contrary to a Ponzi as more people join everyone's rewards go down.

Also, you don't give away control of your money to a third party, it is a liquid investment and you are always free to sell your coins. Not even when you use a masternode hosting service do you give your private keys. The only situation in which you trust your keys to another person is when you want to pool your funds with another user to complete the collateral for a node. So it is literally not a Ponzi.

And sorry for the post, no intention to spam just felt misinformation needs to be corrected where it happens for the sake of everyone being correctly informed. I am not saying the model is good, just that it is not a Ponzi.

I mostly agree with you on a technical level of specifics, but is also undeniably true that many see all cryptos as a sort of ponzi scheme because their value (and at an essential minimum your ability to invest and later sell at a profit) in external terms depends critically on new investors continuing to buy it (or existing investors buying more). But again this applies to all cryptos to varying degrees, not just Dash or Dash-like ones.

This will continue to be somewhat correct (and certainly will appear to many to be correct) in economic terms as long as the main "use" of these coins is speculation, since there is no sort of service being delivered that could pay a return to investors, so any such return has to come from other investors.

smooth

legendary

Activity: 2968

Merit: 1198

Quote from: Hueristic on September 24, 2015, 12:03:27 PM

Quote from: jehst on September 24, 2015, 11:29:13 AM

... There should be something that's soaking up coins. Something besides speculation.

This is still the accumulation and development cycle, down the road (years) there can be no instamine accusations with this distribution model. Anyone can buy in right now and be on a level playing field. I expect another year before XMR is ready for prime time at current rate. And that is with ongoing non stop development that is happening as we speak. There is so much work going on under the hood right now that anyone not accumulating this emission as it's dumped will be crying like everyone that missed BTC.

I agree with both of you. More good reasons to want to own and use the coin are better for the coin. That includes (but certainly not limited to) more investors. While it is true that time will help, that can be self defeating if everyone says "this will be solved in the future" and no one actually does anything to solve it.

dEBRUYNE

legendary

Activity: 2268

Merit: 1141

Quote from: Melbustus on September 24, 2015, 03:14:06 PM

Quote from: dEBRUYNE on September 23, 2015, 03:12:37 PM

Quote from: rpietila on September 23, 2015, 02:44:01 PM

...
One of the most shameful acts ever in the history of central banking (not that it in any way lacks shameful acts to compare with) was to retroactively declare such terms void in 1933 (in addition to forbidding making new ones).
...

It also invalidated gold paper contracts, ...

Like these?

Something like that I guess, this was an interesting read -> http://www.armstrongeconomics.com/archives/37034

Quote

I hate to point out, but before 1934 there was a vast amount of “paper gold” for contracts were expressed in terms of gold. The Supreme Court nullified all private contracts by stating that a gold clause could not be enforced. (see: PERRY v. UNITED STATES, 294 U.S. 330 (1935))

It is amazing that people think that under a gold standard there had to be actual physical gold. Contracts simply expressed in terms of gold to be paid in the future did not require gold to exist. There were no differences between debt denominated in gold before 1934 or dollar denominated debt post-1934.

In addition -> http://www.armstrongeconomics.com/research/rule-of-law/perry-v-united-states-294-u-s-330-1935

Melbustus

legendary

Activity: 1722

Merit: 1004

Quote from: dEBRUYNE on September 23, 2015, 03:12:37 PM

Quote from: rpietila on September 23, 2015, 02:44:01 PM

...
One of the most shameful acts ever in the history of central banking (not that it in any way lacks shameful acts to compare with) was to retroactively declare such terms void in 1933 (in addition to forbidding making new ones).
...

It also invalidated gold paper contracts, ...

Like these?

Hueristic

legendary

Activity: 3836

Merit: 4969

Doomed to see the future and unable to prevent it

Quote from: Minotaur26 on September 24, 2015, 11:18:14 AM

...
Just for the sake of accuracy, Dash Masternodes are not a ponzi ...

Correct, Instamine/hardfork coin grab is the term I use.

Quote from: jehst on September 24, 2015, 11:29:13 AM

... There should be something that's soaking up coins. Something besides speculation.

This is still the accumulation and development cycle, down the road (years) there can be no instamine accusations with this distribution model. Anyone can buy in right now and be on a level playing field. I expect another year before XMR is ready for prime time at current rate. And that is with ongoing non stop development that is happening as we speak. There is so much work going on under the hood right now that anyone not accumulating this emission as it's dumped will be crying like everyone that missed BTC.

Hueristic

legendary

Activity: 3836

Merit: 4969

Doomed to see the future and unable to prevent it

Quote from: aminorex on September 24, 2015, 07:23:04 AM

Cheap xmr is my only truly happy circumstance right now. Thank you for that.

It has been a brutal, humbling month: Stopped out in eurnok, which in retrospect seems obvious (what was I thinking?) and could barely hang on to my wheat through the dip. Thankfully, spus are still tanking, so at least I broke even on net. 1860 can't happen soon enough for me.

Looking forward, I am shorting xau\xag above 80, if the opprtunity arises, and gbpjpy is starting to look interesting again. Imagining what will happen if hkd floats, I am considering calendar spreads of increasing ratio... unlike eurchf (my lifetime best call, that), hkd potentially has the backing of prc reserves, so it's really a tail speculation, no more. It has to pay it's own carry, certainly.

I've been trying not to get lost in online games since their inception but your post is really tempting me. Ever play King of Dragon Pass? It's set in the realm Glorantha (Runequest). I wasted alot of my life in the 80's on that.

Hueristic

legendary

Activity: 3836

Merit: 4969

Doomed to see the future and unable to prevent it

Quote from: languagehasmeaning on September 24, 2015, 05:53:58 AM

I want to brag!

I think I just solved a major bitcointalk mystery:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.12509091

There are several monero and boolberry people participating in that thread. I think its really cool

I speculate that people will pay attention to this chess thread. Chess players are smart and will understand the advantages of CryptoNote after they learn about it.

You should post what move you would have made after our move is decided on so we can learn.

jehst

hero member

Activity: 798

Merit: 1000

21 million. I want them all.

Quote from: Minotaur26 on September 24, 2015, 11:18:14 AM

Quote from: jehst on September 24, 2015, 07:08:03 AM

A coin should at least one stubborn company/organization/vendor/institution that is selling something only for that coin:

Bitcoin has drug dealers
Monero has Crypto Kingdom
Bitshares has bitUSD/bitCNY/etc.

DASH has its own built-in ponzi which I have to admit is clever but precarious.

Just for the sake of accuracy, Dash Masternodes are not a ponzi for one main reason there is a fix percentage of the block rewards that is divided between all masternodes, as more join the network the reward for a node is less and less, tending to zero and finding equilibrium. So completely contrary to a Ponzi as more people join everyone's rewards go down.

Also, you don't give away control of your money to a third party, it is a liquid investment and you are always free to sell your coins. Not even when you use a masternode hosting service do you give your private keys. The only situation in which you trust your keys to another person is when you want to pool your funds with another user to complete the collateral for a node. So it is literally not a Ponzi.

And sorry for the post, no intention to spam just felt misinformation needs to be corrected where it happens for the sake of everyone being correctly informed. I am not saying the model is good, just that it is not a Ponzi.

Other than that, I agree Crypto Kingdom is a really interesting project and I am waiting to see how the Economy version goes, is very interesting to have playable real money.

I know it's not technically a ponzi. I meant it to be disparaging. Just some good old fashioned DRK-bashing.

Bitcoin has more people using it than drug dealers, too. Just a big oversimplification. But the main point stands. There should be something that's soaking up coins. Something besides speculation.

Minotaur26

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Activity: 1092

Merit: 1000

Quote from: jehst on September 24, 2015, 07:08:03 AM

A coin should at least one stubborn company/organization/vendor/institution that is selling something only for that coin:

Bitcoin has drug dealers
Monero has Crypto Kingdom
Bitshares has bitUSD/bitCNY/etc.

DASH has its own built-in ponzi which I have to admit is clever but precarious.

Just for the sake of accuracy, Dash Masternodes are not a ponzi for one main reason there is a fix percentage of the block rewards that is divided between all masternodes, as more join the network the reward for a node is less and less, tending to zero and finding equilibrium. So completely contrary to a Ponzi as more people join everyone's rewards go down.

Also, you don't give away control of your money to a third party, it is a liquid investment and you are always free to sell your coins. Not even when you use a masternode hosting service do you give your private keys. The only situation in which you trust your keys to another person is when you want to pool your funds with another user to complete the collateral for a node. So it is literally not a Ponzi.

And sorry for the post, no intention to spam just felt misinformation needs to be corrected where it happens for the sake of everyone being correctly informed. I am not saying the model is good, just that it is not a Ponzi.

Other than that, I agree Crypto Kingdom is a really interesting project and I am waiting to see how the Economy version goes, is very interesting to have playable real money.

aminorex

legendary

Activity: 1596

Merit: 1030

Sine secretum non libertas

Cheap xmr is my only truly happy circumstance right now. Thank you for that.

It has been a brutal, humbling month: Stopped out in eurnok, which in retrospect seems obvious (what was I thinking?) and could barely hang on to my wheat through the dip. Thankfully, spus are still tanking, so at least I broke even on net. 1860 can't happen soon enough for me.

Looking forward, I am shorting xau\xag above 80, if the opprtunity arises, and gbpjpy is starting to look interesting again. Imagining what will happen if hkd floats, I am considering calendar spreads of increasing ratio... unlike eurchf (my lifetime best call, that), hkd potentially has the backing of prc reserves, so it's really a tail speculation, no more. It has to pay it's own carry, certainly.

Topic: [XMR] Monero Speculation - page 1743. (Read 3313576 times)