Topic: [XMR] Monero Speculation - page 1742. (Read 3313576 times)

The same can be said about cryptonote. Just like cryptonote seems to be better now than bitcoin, next year or 5 years from now, we may see something new, that is much better than cryptonote. Time will only tell.

As I just said, the technology is already here and is an order of magnitude better than Bitcoin.   
 
You can try to ban or slow it, but you're just going to end up fucking yourself. 
 
"Why are all the businesses going to Kerplakistan!?" 
 
"Because sir, that's where they are allowed to make use of amazing new technology which allows them to reach the next level of economic progress." 
 
It's not something you can control - this is the inevitability of the system.  You can't uninvent Cryptonote, so you must embrace it...  Or else you will become the new third world.

This will never happen with Bitcoin.  It would be a violation of the social contract as far as all the VC money is concerned.  The only reason so much VC money has been invested is due to its transparent nature, it has the blessing of many governments and regulators which monero would never have.  Nor would any other non-transparent ledger.

Any currency which is not truly decentralized and dangerous is not revolutionary, and therefore not important.  
  
I'm pretty sure there is an elegant way to make this argument, but just imagine if at the dawn of the personal computing revolution certain nations had realized the danger of such devices and created their own boxes for their citizens which only performed approved operations - as always, the technology doesn't lose, the country does because they fall behind their peers on the tech tree.  
  
Actually this exact situation happened in the UK with automobiles, which was one of the reasons that America surged ahead in the development race.  Again and again, countries that allow their citizens free reign over these 'dangerous' technologies that interconnect them advance far more rapidly than their peers.  
  
Yadda Yadda velocity of information and money...  Yadda.... Metcalfe, etc etc  
  
Anyway, for cryptocurrency to be revolutionary and powerful it must be dangerous and unhindered.  If you try to mandate any portion of the technology you get stuck with a crippled bitcoin-like implementation and never make it to the real deal: Monero.  
  
Monero (cryptonote) is the dangerous new technology...  Instant money with privacy is as threatening as instant information with privacy (possibly more) and it seems worrisome to let your population have access to that kind of power.  
  
But the nation that does will become the richest and most powerful nation on Earth...  Eventually they may even begin to absorb the wealth and prosperity of other nations that choose not to give their citizens unrestricted access.  
  
Once again, Russia will be on the wrong side of history and it's very frustrating.  
  
I've always had a soft spot for Russians but even after all these years they fail to understand their ego and isolationism has been fucking them for centuries while the rest of the world surpasses them...  Simply because they are willing to talk to each other. 
 
My country is no different: if we choose to attempt to lock down our population from Cryptonote while Asian nations like Singapore and China embrace it, well, that will become the new first world. 
 
It might be hard for us to see (especially shortsighted politicians), but by allowing Cryptonote to flourish in the people we will unlock an age of productivity and innovation that will dwarf anything that has ever come before. 
 
Imagine 40 more companies the size of Apple and Microsofts being based in your country -  that's the potential we face if we get this right. 

Bitcoin seems to have chosen the regulatory compliance way : it can't go at the same time fully to the anonimity way. At best they will add some privacy features...
Seeing how changing blocksize is challenging the unity among bitcoin developpers, how could they radically change the core to attein similar privacy/fungibility than monero.

Yes, i think they slowly start to realize that lack of privacy and fungibility is a problem.

But what would happen with monero, if bitcoin actually managed to introduced  these features. If this would happen, that there would be no point in monero? Could monero survive, if bitcoin incorporated zerocash or whatever technique to ensure privacy and fungibility of transactions?

I agree with you here.

It appears XMR is in early 2010 stage of where bitcoin was. But it may be even earlier as there is no GUI and in its place is a GIGANTIC engine put into a tiny automobile.

Accumulation phase is now AKA early adopters.

With Bitcoin developers having mentioned possible development (yeah right lol) of "Confidential Transactions" they see that privacy AND moreso fungibility of bitcoin is a huge issue moving forward.

And they'll all have a centralized non-fungible money that keeps public records for all time. IE. a domestic currency that must be foisted on the domestic populace in order to work. An international currency must have anonymous outlets if it is to remain fungible, desired and work as a cash. You say it will be outlawed. How? is my first question. But my bigger question is why? If i want to fund the enemy of my enemy without garnering international attention, I'm going to need a digital cash in order to avoid in person hook-ups that would be as damning as having it on a public blockchain. Just imagine how the Iran Contra fiasco could have been avoided if Reagan and North had used Monero. Nevermind that a public money can never be as fungible as private money unless no one ever did anything bad with it. Good luck with that non-world.

I think it will not be private, that's the point. I mean private in a sense between you and the government.  For Russia bitcoin is even too private, not even mentioning monero.

I dont know exactly how they plan to make BitRubble work, but its interesting precedence for government controlled cryptocurrency. Other countries may follow.

So a government is going to create a non-fungible money and thinks companies and other governments are going to want transact in this money and have all their transactions public for all time? You just created a domestic money that can't possibly win international favor.

Yes, companies and governments decide, and they will not allow anonymous or even psedoanynomouse cruptocurrency to be "officially" used which is not controlled by government/company.

In Russia, for example, they already want to launch their own cyrpto, approved by government. The  "BitRuble will not be pseudo-anonymous like bitcoin due to the aforementioned Anti-Money Laundering (AML) and Know-Your-Customer (KYC) policies pursued by the regulator".

Its super easy for government to force ppl to use their 'own' cyryptocurrency. Its enough that they will pass laws requiring merchants to accept NSAcoin or whatever coin (or employers to pay salaries with such a coin) that the government can track and control.

Companies and governments determine what money they accept, and what company or government is going to want a money that links them to all their activities for all time?

Fungibility rather than privacy is the killer application; however one cannot have fungibility without privacy so they go hand in hand.  I remain convinced that Bitcoin has a fatal flaw that has been exposed by the 1 MB blocksize limit debate, namely: How can a fee market develop in the absence of a block reward? Granted this flaw will not show up for a few decades but it one of the reasons why there is not a "simple" solution to the blocksize debate.

The purpose of xmr is to protect one's privacy. This is at least my understanding. I dont view monero as a bitcoin killer or even a litecoin killer. Its there with one main purpose, to ensure everone a right to privacy. Not everyone cares about privacy. So bitcoin is not going anywhere anytime soon. But there are people that value their privacy. For them monero is a perfect solution.

Also, there is no reason to use monero for tax evasion, or to think about it as being desing for this purpose. In monero you have view keys, to disclose the transactions when needed. So a merchant or a person can keep their transactions privet from other merchants or people, but be fully transparent to tax office to which he/she can provide its view keys.

Crypto currencies provide a very important solution. This is the ability to send money at a distance without the need for a trusted third party. When the buyer and seller can meet in person to complete a transaction one can use fiat cash but this is not an option when for example the buyer and seller are in different continents. As for the market it is those who cannot get or use a bank account, debit / credit card, Paypal etc for the transaction for what ever reason. In many cases the reason is poverty on the part of the buyer or seller or both.

Edit: There are many innovative money transfer systems that work only within one country. It is when international boundaries are crossed that fees and intermediaries make relatively small transactions say below 100 US very expensive.

Don't give Galvin and Heam any bright ideas.  They'll read ^that^ and decide you have to keep 1000 BTC locked up to run a full XT node.   

The idea of masternodes is not perfect. Simply because you relay on third parties (i.e. masternodes) to do mixing for you. You cant do it on your side. Also, if you want to run a masternode, you are stopped by a pay wall of 1000 dash. Which is not good. They say that the pay wall is to protect bad people running master nodes, which also does not make sense. If a pay wall helps secure network, than why not make it 10k dash or 1milion dash? Continuing in this vain, the more it costs to run a masternode, the more secure the network is. 

Haha indeed, the first of 3 of this trust ratings says: Potentially hacked account. Trade with caution

Anyways it's an old myth that came up in some XMR hate thread, keep trying trolls

What if there were some totally unique service or thing that you could ONLY buy with cryptocurrencies conveniently? Something that could not be duplicated. That would be enough to remove the ponzi "smell" from cryptocurrencies.

Gold and silver have unique molecular makeups. There are some things that gold or silver can do that other things simply can't do. That is separate from the fact that there's a limited amount of these metals in the Earth's crust and separate from the fact that they are shiny. Therefore, gold and silver can't be considered ponzis. As long as the materials themselves serve some useful purpose, they will hold value.

In theory, we don't need anything besides speculation for cryptocurrencies to hold value. They can hold value if we all just "decide" that they hold value. But this is a collective mind game that may not stand the test of overwhelming universal bearishness or mass panic (which inevitably and periodically arise).

We have to keep searching. It is not enough to "just get a GUI" or identify a large potential market. Fundamentally, we really need a clear reason why XMR will continue to exist and hold value for the foreseeable future. Are we waiting for the entire global government fiat system to collapse, create a vacuum, and for cryptocurrencies to then fill the void? That seems very unlikely (as there will always be at least one government left standing that people trust) and it's something we have no control over. What's more likely is that a killer app propels cryptocurrency forward and people voluntarily switch over from inferior alternatives. What's more likely still is that cryptocurrencies sorta just languish for a while like battery technology. (The first true battery was made in the year 1800, but the first practical use of batteries (to power telegraphs and whatnot) didn't come around until after 1835).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_battery#Invention_of_the_battery

I will say that if the global political environment becomes such that major-league tax evasion is necessary for everyone (rich and poor) just to survive, and physical cash and gold coins are banned, and every visible form of economic activity becomes strangled by rentseekers, then cryptocurrency will become very attractive. But frankly, that world doesn't sound very fun whether your cryptocurrency or secret gold stash has become worth a lot or not.

/musing

An account is only worth the value of its reputation. I'd offer you a maximum of 1 sat. No, on second thought, I wouldn't.