Author

Topic: [XMR] Monero Speculation - page 2016. (Read 3313076 times)

legendary
Activity: 2968
Merit: 1198
March 15, 2015, 05:31:29 PM

You must be bored. Tongue I'm not sure I believe the OP but as was stated.

Quote
laanwj commented on Jan 17, 2014

This is a problem with wrong information from a third-party site.

I'm sorry that this happened to you, but we cannot realistically solve this as bitcoin devs.

If you don't want your IP to end up on some stupid service on the net you could use Bitcoin from behind TOR.

I have no idea about the various comments on that issue. Many of them are nonsensical. But the issue of it being a third party site collecting the data is the whole point. Anyone can scrape the Bitcoin blockchain and to various degrees spy on the p2p. That information can and will be used in various ways and even 100% innocent people will get hurt by it. That is how mass surveillance (and big data generally) works. False positives are rampant.

The best defense against this is to deny the data in the first place.

EDIT: clarify mass surveillance as opposed to just surveillance
legendary
Activity: 3836
Merit: 4969
Doomed to see the future and unable to prevent it
March 15, 2015, 05:26:49 PM

You must be bored. Tongue I'm not sure I believe the OP but as was stated.

Quote
laanwj commented on Jan 17, 2014

This is a problem with wrong information from a third-party site.

I'm sorry that this happened to you, but we cannot realistically solve this as bitcoin devs.

If you don't want your IP to end up on some stupid service on the net you could use Bitcoin from behind TOR.

AFA

Quote
o-jasper commented 24 days ago
Quote

    I'm sorry that this happened to you, but we cannot realistically solve this as bitcoin devs.

This is about having a secure network of peers. It is not Sybil-proof in terms of information that can be harvested. Given that apparently "tar pitting" is a term now, it might not be sybil-proof in terms of nodes not co-operating.

The good news is that no hard fork is needed to change how the network works. You can just make a second one and have a sufficient number of nodes play in both networks.

I don't quite grasp what he's saying about tarpitting having anything to do with BTC? Something new? And is he recommending Sidechains as a solution?
legendary
Activity: 2968
Merit: 1198
legendary
Activity: 1124
Merit: 1000
13eJ4feC39JzbdY2K9W3ytQzWhunsxL83X
March 15, 2015, 05:06:07 PM
no problem to ask Smiley we are here to communicate Smiley
when i first read about XMR i did not bought any but i agreed with me when i bought couple of days ago Smiley
this coin has a great future i think
legendary
Activity: 1722
Merit: 1217
March 15, 2015, 05:02:39 PM
bitcoinwisdom moved xmr to the top of the list. any theories why? maybe its by how often the link is clicked?

24 hour volume rank

sure enough right you are. i looked at the today volume and the 7 day volume but for some reason didnt look at the 24 volume. silly.
hero member
Activity: 723
Merit: 503
March 15, 2015, 05:00:18 PM
bitcoinwisdom moved xmr to the top of the list. any theories why? maybe its by how often the link is clicked?

i think it is. i've been clicking a lot the last week
legendary
Activity: 2968
Merit: 1198
March 15, 2015, 04:59:25 PM
bitcoinwisdom moved xmr to the top of the list. any theories why? maybe its by how often the link is clicked?

24 hour volume rank
legendary
Activity: 1722
Merit: 1217
March 15, 2015, 04:56:46 PM
bitcoinwisdom moved xmr to the top of the list. any theories why? maybe its by how often the link is clicked?
sr. member
Activity: 289
Merit: 250
March 15, 2015, 04:43:24 PM
Have my friday check handy. When should I pull the trigger?
legendary
Activity: 1124
Merit: 1000
13eJ4feC39JzbdY2K9W3ytQzWhunsxL83X
March 15, 2015, 04:09:52 PM
looks like XMR stable up trend is here and is here to stay...
G2M
sr. member
Activity: 280
Merit: 250
Activity: 616
March 15, 2015, 02:00:09 PM
Looks as if we're seeing a situation where an increase in price correlates to an increase in bid support.
hero member
Activity: 798
Merit: 1000
21 million. I want them all.
March 15, 2015, 01:11:38 PM
Looks like there's strong support at above .002
legendary
Activity: 1092
Merit: 1000
March 15, 2015, 01:02:33 PM
Looks like the rally has slowed down a bit.
It is always good if the rally is not too violent. I prefer long term bull market over fast pump and even faster dump (like we have experienced in Monero). I hope this will change and the overall trendline will become bullish and not doing it too fast but in a way that the market can take it without creating a bubble. We will see if this is possible. Usually at some point of the rally the speculators enter to the market and create the bubble.
hero member
Activity: 588
Merit: 504
March 15, 2015, 12:54:55 PM
Decision point.  Double top?  Or extended rally?

Tour de Corse
legendary
Activity: 3766
Merit: 5146
Note the unconventional cAPITALIZATION!
March 15, 2015, 12:23:02 PM
Decision point.  Double top?  Or extended rally?
full member
Activity: 231
Merit: 100
March 15, 2015, 12:03:27 PM
Now you're just using ad hominem. If you can't be open-minded enough to understand that you might not be 100% correct, I've nothing more to say to you.


Which is good, since this is really going off topic. I guess the point of all this is that there are obstacles for monero taking off mainstream, IF there are a significant number of people who aren't completely paranoid about their privacy. It doesn't really matter who's right or wrong, the result is that because these people don't have sufficient reason to use monero, monero is potentially losing out. For monero to achieve real mainstream use, there is a need to convince people that they really do need the privacy monero provides (or some other benefit monero has over bitcoin and other alts) for the particular purpose they're using it.

A very popular advice that I've been seeing a lot regarding building start-ups, websites etc, is how a lot of people have a "build it and they will come" mentality, and how it simply doesn't work that way.

I think that very much applies here, and to crypto in general. People need to be convinced of its benefits. It doesn't matter how beneficial it is. It really doesn't even matter IF it's beneficial at all. People will use it if they THINK it's beneficial, at least until they realize that it's actually BS.

I apologise for being obtuse. It was uncalled for.

However, I still don't think your arguments in the post above (Edit: this one: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.10781325) hold any water. They are simply nonsensical.


Let me try to explain:


- You wouldn't want your health insurance knowing your chocolate bar habits, they might raise your premium because of it. They might even refuse to take you on as a customer.
A: I wouldn't want the government to know I'm a thief. Or a serial killer. I simply think that perhaps that information SHOULD be provided to insurance companies. It's only morally right to do so, just as public companies should not hide any deal-breaking info to potential investors.

There is quite the difference between being a criminal and having a sweet tooth which leads to all sorts of health issues, which is expensive for an insurance company. If you eat 10 chocolate bars a day, every day, eventually you will get diabetes. You are not morally or legally obliged to inform them about your sugar-intake, nor should you be. You are not a public company. You will not have any investors in you.

- If your boss knows your stopping your birth control, he might let you go. Maybe he doesn't want to pay for maternity leave. It would be mighty convenient to do that before you fell pregnant.
Then perhaps you should find a different job.
That's not a thing and that's not how the world works. I am arguing that people might play minority report on your ass.

- If a merchant knows exactly what you've been willing to pay for items before he will be able to charge different prices to customers. And charge you more.
If you're willing to pay more, that's your choice.
Sure, but it's more convenient not to. Again, did you get the point? I'm not sure?

- If your government isn't friendly towards free speech (as we see governments all over the world move towards) and you hold a political opinion that is against the powers that be, your existence in life can be very troublesome. (this is such deep subject so I will not go into it more).
I think there should be a limit to freedoms. But yes, this subject is too deep, and your point does have some merit.
The goal posts changes as society progresses. Back in medieval times chemistry was illegal. Not a freedom everyone should have. Books could be illegal.
But it's not just that. It is hindering people in activism - because they are scared of repercussions from government, family, community, religious groups or whatever. Remember that the reason you can do chemistry and read a book or be on the internet or even do bitcoin is because of activism. Many things that are deemed trivial today used to be illegal and you would get persecuted for acting in that sphere.



- If you run a little corner-shop and your customers can see what you pay for prices, they might just go straight to the source. Your competitors might be able to see it too. They can see your suppliers and the prices you pay. It's not necessarily good for your business.
Uh, I don't know if you've ever worked as a store clerk. I have, and I can tell you that I was really surprised how people are willing to pay 2 or even 3x the price to support their local store than to drive 5 minutes to the supermarket to save that money. You don't need complete freedom of information to know that convenience stores charge more than Walmart.

Whichever store. It's beside the point. But I do agree a lot are willing to support the local shop, regardless of price, myself included. It's getting off-topic

- If people can see that you went to a psychiatrist, and take specific meds you could for example risk not being invited to job interviews, or have that date you were going on cancelled, or..or..
Again, hiding that kind of information is not ethical, in my opinion. If your date/employer really wants you, they wouldn't care. It is beneficial for you as it weeds out those who really care about YOU, or those who want someone that isn't you.

Are we living on the same planet? You won't even get to the interview. You will be weeded out way before. You are written off before they get to know you. It's cool that you are YOU and they should care about you, and that you are a really nice guy and very skilled at your work, but alas, they will never find out because the HR lady flagged you in their system as "psychiatry-treatment/anti-depressants".

- If you were running a local diner, and customers could see that other people were getting special deals (might be your frequent patronage), they would start asking for cheaper meals - or go somewhere else.
Same point as the convenience store; this simply isn't necessarily true. Amazingly enough. I'm definitely one of those people that would go somewhere cheaper and couldn't imagine people who didn't; but I've seen with my own eyes.
Maybe it's a bad example, I can agree to that. But I don't get your refute?

- The last one of my previous questions spoke for itself almost. If rogue elements (be it thieves or whatever) can see when you go to the movies, on holidays, go out shopping they can arrange for a house visit at those times. But not just that - they can see WHAT you are shopping - hey you shop for nice things let's steal that..! - and plan accordingly.)
But there would be protection agencies that would've caught those "rogue elements" before they acted.
What?! Doesn't make sense..
sr. member
Activity: 322
Merit: 250
March 15, 2015, 11:28:06 AM
Now you're just using ad hominem. If you can't be open-minded enough to understand that you might not be 100% correct, I've nothing more to say to you.


Which is good, since this is really going off topic. I guess the point of all this is that there are obstacles for monero taking off mainstream, IF there are a significant number of people who aren't completely paranoid about their privacy. It doesn't really matter who's right or wrong, the result is that because these people don't have sufficient reason to use monero, monero is potentially losing out. For monero to achieve real mainstream use, there is a need to convince people that they really do need the privacy monero provides (or some other benefit monero has over bitcoin and other alts) for the particular purpose they're using it.

A very popular advice that I've been seeing a lot regarding building start-ups, websites etc, is how a lot of people have a "build it and they will come" mentality, and how it simply doesn't work that way.

I think that very much applies here, and to crypto in general. People need to be convinced of its benefits. It doesn't matter how beneficial it is. It really doesn't even matter IF it's beneficial at all. People will use it if they THINK it's beneficial, at least until they realize that it's actually BS.
full member
Activity: 231
Merit: 100
March 15, 2015, 11:10:31 AM

- You wouldn't want your health insurance knowing your chocolate bar habits, they might raise your premium because of it. They might even refuse to take you on as a customer.
A: I wouldn't want the government to know I'm a thief. Or a serial killer. I simply think that perhaps that information SHOULD be provided to insurance companies. It's only morally right to do so, just as public companies should not hide any deal-breaking info to potential investors.

- If your boss knows your stopping your birth control, he might let you go. Maybe he doesn't want to pay for maternity leave. It would be mighty convenient to do that before you fell pregnant.
Then perhaps you should find a different job.

- If a merchant knows exactly what you've been willing to pay for items before he will be able to charge different prices to customers. And charge you more.
If you're willing to pay more, that's your choice.

- If your government isn't friendly towards free speech (as we see governments all over the world move towards) and you hold a political opinion that is against the powers that be, your existence in life can be very troublesome. (this is such deep subject so I will not go into it more).
I think there should be a limit to freedoms. But yes, this subject is too deep, and your point does have some merit.

- If you run a little corner-shop and your customers can see what you pay for prices, they might just go straight to the source. Your competitors might be able to see it too. They can see your suppliers and the prices you pay. It's not necessarily good for your business.
Uh, I don't know if you've ever worked as a store clerk. I have, and I can tell you that I was really surprised how people are willing to pay 2 or even 3x the price to support their local store than to drive 5 minutes to the supermarket to save that money. You don't need complete freedom of information to know that convenience stores charge more than Walmart.

- If people can see that you went to a psychiatrist, and take specific meds you could for example risk not being invited to job interviews, or have that date you were going on cancelled, or..or..
Again, hiding that kind of information is not ethical, in my opinion. If your date/employer really wants you, they wouldn't care. It is beneficial for you as it weeds out those who really care about YOU, or those who want someone that isn't you.

- If you were running a local diner, and customers could see that other people were getting special deals (might be your frequent patronage), they would start asking for cheaper meals - or go somewhere else.
Same point as the convenience store; this simply isn't necessarily true. Amazingly enough. I'm definitely one of those people that would go somewhere cheaper and couldn't imagine people who didn't; but I've seen with my own eyes.

- The last one of my previous questions spoke for itself almost. If rogue elements (be it thieves or whatever) can see when you go to the movies, on holidays, go out shopping they can arrange for a house visit at those times. But not just that - they can see WHAT you are shopping - hey you shop for nice things let's steal that..! - and plan accordingly.)
But there would be protection agencies that would've caught those "rogue elements" before they acted.

What's that old song called? "You don't know what you've got 'till it's gone.."
Perhaps. Or maybe you don't know what you're missing out until you have it.
I don't plan on convincing you. As I said, I do value my privacy. I'm not anal about it.


Well you certainly won't. You make no sense in your rebuttals? As in, it's nonsensical what you write. Stop trolling.

"I value my virginity. But I'm not anal about it.." See how that works?
hero member
Activity: 504
Merit: 500
eidoo wallet
March 15, 2015, 11:09:56 AM
Honestly, I believe most people simply dont/didn't know of all the spying going on in their lives. Before Snowden came out, relatively no one(Even "techies") knew of the intense spying that was going on. But, the general public is becoming more aware of things like this, and scenarios like what happened in Cyprus isn't helping traditional fiat/banking either.
full member
Activity: 231
Merit: 100
March 15, 2015, 11:06:28 AM
I have to say that I really don't, and I think the vast majority (or at least a good number of ordinary folks) of the world doesn't. More important things to care about.

It is actually pretty clear you are correct, if you look at how the whole commercial and government spying industry has developed. It's not the case that people aren't aware of it, but most really and truly don't care.


I think people care, its just that they feel powerless to stop it. Kind of like "yeah, but what are yah gonna do?" I guess the answer would be to use cash for everything, but for some people they don't feel safe or for whatever reason there's a combination of things that outweighs the lack of privacy.

This is another very valid point. People feel powerless, they don't know how to so they just close their eyes and ears and go about their life the best they can.

The other points I was making in my other post was that people do not think the scenarios through. When you explain the ramifications the lack of privacy potentially will have in each scenario, people start paying more attention.
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