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Topic: You are threatening Bitcoin’s security (Read 32360 times)

hero member
Activity: 717
Merit: 501
July 14, 2011, 05:48:00 PM
Wtf is this?  Where's deepbit?  Why is such a huge pool being hidden in the 'Others' slice?

deepbit was under ddos attack about this time.  The chart come from bitcoinwatch.  However the graphs about use the google graph maker thingy directly in the html code.
sr. member
Activity: 434
Merit: 250
Where's the link to that pie chart?
XIU
member
Activity: 84
Merit: 10
I think I really don't get how staying on 1 pool that has a large share can cause problems.

I'll ask that someone who's more knowledgeable than me tell me the problems in an easy to understand way.I've read th ecomments here but some it seems to be hearsay (I'm not sure if it's true or just an unfounded fear that some ppl have).

My questions are:
1.How does mining on 1 pool that has 50% or more share cause problems for hte BTC currency if any?
2.If the service provided by the pool with the majority hares is very good,why should people switch to pools that have a smaller share possibly due to a possible lower standard of service for its members?
3.I don't know the share for my pool bitcoins.lc.If that's too large and it's causing problems then I won't mind moving pools.
4.If I join a pool with very few members,will I get a bigger slice of the pie with my current hash power of 400MHash/s or do I always get the amount based on my hashpower,size of pool,size of payout minus fees?

because I typically get about 0.25BTC in 14-17 hrs on bitcoins.lc so If I joined a smaller pool will I get more for the same hashpower because of the far fewer members?

Thank you.


In theory it doesn't matter which pool you join (except for the obvious difference in fees) because they all work together for a "global" solution, so let's say that there are 1000 shares/users and 1 of them has the solution, where deepbit did 500, some other pool did 250 etc. Each user still had 0.1% to find the solution.

For the 50% problem, Bitcoin is based on the fact that the largest block chain determines the "real" chain, if you have 50% or more of the generation power you could create a fake chain faster then all the other miners.
legendary
Activity: 1022
Merit: 1000
Freelance videographer
I think I really don't get how staying on 1 pool that has a large share can cause problems.

I'll ask that someone who's more knowledgeable than me tell me the problems in an easy to understand way.I've read th ecomments here but some it seems to be hearsay (I'm not sure if it's true or just an unfounded fear that some ppl have).

My questions are:
1.How does mining on 1 pool that has 50% or more share cause problems for hte BTC currency if any?
2.If the service provided by the pool with the majority hares is very good,why should people switch to pools that have a smaller share possibly due to a possible lower standard of service for its members?
3.I don't know the share for my pool bitcoins.lc.If that's too large and it's causing problems then I won't mind moving pools.
4.If I join a pool with very few members,will I get a bigger slice of the pie with my current hash power of 400MHash/s or do I always get the amount based on my hashpower,size of pool,size of payout minus fees?

because I typically get about 0.25BTC in 14-17 hrs on bitcoins.lc so If I joined a smaller pool will I get more for the same hashpower because of the far fewer members?

Thank you.
full member
Activity: 140
Merit: 100
firstbits: 1kwc1p


Wtf is this?  Where's deepbit?  Why is such a huge pool being hidden in the 'Others' slice?


Fixed now, must have been momentary.
member
Activity: 84
Merit: 10


Wtf is this?  Where's deepbit?  Why is such a huge pool being hidden in the 'Others' slice?
member
Activity: 87
Merit: 10
Free market man, Tycho should not FORCE people out of his pool... If he provides the best most consistent server, then he should get a big slice of the pie.  Last night I watched as one of his servers went down and as promised it automatically switched over to a failover server he has.  Me not having to worry and knowing that tycho is behind the pool is worth the 3% to me.

Also I would rather have 50% in a pool be the threat then 50% in one person be a threat... I would be wary of the mining companies.  If tycho starts doing something bad miners can move off his pool and thwart his attack... if a single person had that power... what, do we all run out and buy video cards as fast as possible?

The only thing Tycho did was make a good fair pool when there was no other good option at the time.

I agree.  What's the problem?  Tycho is big and more than fair.  The strength is through proxy.  If he becomes a bad actor we leave.   I think Tycho is protecting us from private money that could control everything if not for pools.
member
Activity: 108
Merit: 10
Looks like he has only about 30-40% now.

Deepbit growth it inevitable. This is the fastest mining server as of this date. I tried mining at btcmine last wednesday, stopped yesterday and until now I haven't gotten the points that I mined, still in unconfirmed points past 24 hours now.

Deepbit you can almost get your points one hour after the server refresh. No wonder they grew big in a matter of hours.

XIU
member
Activity: 84
Merit: 10
Looks like he has only about 30-40% now.
sr. member
Activity: 677
Merit: 250
Move to other pools. Stop mining on deepbit.

Here’s what someone with 50% of the network’s hashrate could do.


So you are saying Tycho is an attacker? Seriously?

What if law enformenet confiscated Tycho's servers with the intent of controlling and corrupting the hash chain?
What if a blackhat compromised Tycho's server?
What if a criminal coerced Tycho at gun point?

Any economy has a weak point, but let's not make Bitcoin's weak point a single person. If I were that person, I wouldn't be able to sleep at night knowing the risks.
legendary
Activity: 1400
Merit: 1005
people are watching and examining deepbit like hawks, I doubt deepbit will do anything fraudulent. Plus why would any established pool destroy their own investment by destabilizing bitcoin network? the reward is tiny vs the potential loss. What we need to watch for is if any non-established source has control of hash power over 50%.
But what if someone hacks deepbit and gains control of the pool?

It would be a short lived win, because deepbit doesn't control the pool's nodes.  As soon as the breech was noticed, and it wouldn't take all that long, the nodes' owners would just starve deepbit of it's collective resources and the takeover attempt would be useless.

But couldn't someone with control of 51% script it so they 'found' 1,000,000 blocks in the span of several seconds?
No.  They still have to be legitimate blocks with hashes inside of the difficulty requirement.  Otherwise, all other clients would reject the new blockchain as soon as it was presented to them, and their double-spends wouldn't propagate.
legendary
Activity: 1708
Merit: 1007
people are watching and examining deepbit like hawks, I doubt deepbit will do anything fraudulent. Plus why would any established pool destroy their own investment by destabilizing bitcoin network? the reward is tiny vs the potential loss. What we need to watch for is if any non-established source has control of hash power over 50%.
But what if someone hacks deepbit and gains control of the pool?

It would be a short lived win, because deepbit doesn't control the pool's nodes.  As soon as the breech was noticed, and it wouldn't take all that long, the nodes' owners would just starve deepbit of it's collective resources and the takeover attempt would be useless.

But couldn't someone with control of 51% script it so they 'found' 1,000,000 blocks in the span of several seconds?

No.
sr. member
Activity: 252
Merit: 251
I consider anyone mining on deepbit a criminal.

lol
member
Activity: 84
Merit: 10
people are watching and examining deepbit like hawks, I doubt deepbit will do anything fraudulent. Plus why would any established pool destroy their own investment by destabilizing bitcoin network? the reward is tiny vs the potential loss. What we need to watch for is if any non-established source has control of hash power over 50%.
But what if someone hacks deepbit and gains control of the pool?

It would be a short lived win, because deepbit doesn't control the pool's nodes.  As soon as the breech was noticed, and it wouldn't take all that long, the nodes' owners would just starve deepbit of it's collective resources and the takeover attempt would be useless.

But couldn't someone with control of 51% script it so they 'found' 1,000,000 blocks in the span of several seconds?
legendary
Activity: 1708
Merit: 1007
people are watching and examining deepbit like hawks, I doubt deepbit will do anything fraudulent. Plus why would any established pool destroy their own investment by destabilizing bitcoin network? the reward is tiny vs the potential loss. What we need to watch for is if any non-established source has control of hash power over 50%.
But what if someone hacks deepbit and gains control of the pool?

It would be a short lived win, because deepbit doesn't control the pool's nodes.  As soon as the breech was noticed, and it wouldn't take all that long, the nodes' owners would just starve deepbit of it's collective resources and the takeover attempt would be useless.
member
Activity: 266
Merit: 10
people are watching and examining deepbit like hawks, I doubt deepbit will do anything fraudulent. Plus why would any established pool destroy their own investment by destabilizing bitcoin network? the reward is tiny vs the potential loss. What we need to watch for is if any non-established source has control of hash power over 50%.
But what if someone hacks deepbit and gains control of the pool?
legendary
Activity: 1806
Merit: 1003
people are watching and examining deepbit like hawks, I doubt deepbit will do anything fraudulent. Plus why would any established pool destroy their own investment by destabilizing bitcoin network? the reward is tiny vs the potential loss. What we need to watch for is if any non-established source has control of hash power over 50%.
N12
donator
Activity: 1610
Merit: 1010
Two months later.



Bitcoin was founded on the premise that in order to use it, you wouldn’t have to trust anyone. Right now, I have to trust the deepbit OP, Tycho, to not double spend.

I consider anyone mining on deepbit a criminal.
sr. member
Activity: 392
Merit: 250
Bump because there's not enough deepbit threads on the main page.
sr. member
Activity: 392
Merit: 250
if deepbit is not broken up or limited we may have to take action against deepbit, i would hate to have to do it but this is posing a security risk to the end user.

Yeah, write them a strongly worded letter and if they don't respond then write them an even stronger worded letter.

Or better yet, just start an advertising campaign for the small pools directed at Deepbit's miners.

See how much [Tyco] would charge to advertise other pools on his web page or put together some people willing to contribute to an advertising campaign for other pools on some major websites/google ad words.
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