You are threatening Bitcoin’s security - page 2.

MoonShadow

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Quote from: grndzero on June 06, 2011, 08:24:00 PM

Quote from: Killarshark33 on June 06, 2011, 08:18:41 PM

if deepbit is not broken up or limited we may have to take action against deepbit, i would hate to have to do it but this is posing a security risk to the end user.

Yeah, write them a strongly worded letter and if they don't respond then write them an even stronger worded letter.

Or better yet, just start an advertising campaign for the small pools directed at Deepbit's miners.

grndzero

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Quote from: Killarshark33 on June 06, 2011, 08:18:41 PM

if deepbit is not broken up or limited we may have to take action against deepbit, i would hate to have to do it but this is posing a security risk to the end user.

Yeah, write them a strongly worded letter and if they don't respond then write them an even stronger worded letter.

Killarshark33

newbie

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if deepbit is not broken up or limited we may have to take action against deepbit, i would hate to have to do it but this is posing a security risk to the end user.

saqwe

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Quote from: bulanula on May 17, 2011, 12:38:23 PM

Come on guys we all know you are in this for the $$$. If bitcoin gets attacked the least you would care once you have your BTC all converted to $$$ !

If people would care at all about Bitcoin and its security they would stop mining at deepbit.net monopoly but as you can see they all care about the moneyz !

*thumbs up*

SebastianJu

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Legendary Escrow Service - Tip Jar in Profile

I want to add some thoughts...

I doubt that deepbit would harm the system but the possibility to do so could attract attention. For example I await governments to cry out loud to stop this black market money. So I really dont know how much computing power agencies in the world have and if they could overtake 50% only to harm the system but Im sure they could take control about pools if they want. I think thats possibility one.

And the second possibility would be that someone goes the sneaky way and secretly buys access or owns different pools that doesnt seem to be connected but in fact are connected through this one buyer. He could be capable of combining everything having secretly over 50%...

So while im now understand enough of the real risks of that I think there should be enough possibilities (not saying how hard to achieve) to have more than 50%...

MoonShadow

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Quote from: nazgulnarsil on May 29, 2011, 02:15:43 PM

two questions:

why is a simple majority and not a super majority or qualified majority of some type needed? couldn't this be changed?

No, because it's not a formal voting process. It's only the act of downloading a new client and running it with new rules, whichever branch dominates wins.

nazgulnarsil

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https://cryptassist.io

two questions:

why is a simple majority and not a super majority or qualified majority of some type needed? couldn't this be changed?

why doesn't the ownership of bitcoins themselves give you some sort of veto power similar to stockholders? After all the biggest holders of bitcoins have the LEAST incentive to devalue their own holdings. Currently there are two components to influencing the network: running clients and hashing power. Neither of these necessarily involve holding lots of bitcoins. gmaxwell pointed out that you could trade bitcoins for influence in either of the two components, but I'm not sure it makes sense to have to "sell stock" to "vote".

at the very least clients with large wallets associated with them should have proportionately more power in resisting changes to the underlying protocol.

tiberiandusk

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The North Remembers

If you're on DeepBit like I was give Eligius or Continuum a try. I like having the coins say generated in my client instead of just receiving payments from somewhere.

rezin777

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Bump because this is important.

goatpig

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Armory Developer

Quote from: Grinder on May 18, 2011, 04:22:30 PM

Quote from: goatpig on May 18, 2011, 12:34:45 PM

Quote

Yet another straw man.

Born from the very stats your pool officially advertises?

If you were as smart as you think you are it would be really interesting to continue discussing with you. I just had to mention that I checked the variance on BTC Mine for the last 24 hours, and the equivalent number would be about +40%. A bit more than the numbers you'll see on Deepbit...

As opposed to you I'm not concerned about day to day variance since I've been mining there for over 2 weeks, and intent to stay there even longer. Day to day variance is meaningless to me. Are you going to argue I'm not getting a better reward than you for equivalent hash rate on the long term? Please try, so I can witness you slowly give up on every single horrid superstition you're randomly throwing at this thread as they keep getting debunked one after the other.

Grinder

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Quote from: goatpig on May 18, 2011, 12:34:45 PM

Quote

Yet another straw man.

Born from the very stats your pool officially advertises?

If you were as smart as you think you are it would be really interesting to continue discussing with you. I just had to mention that I checked the variance on BTC Mine for the last 24 hours, and the equivalent number would be about +40%. A bit more than the numbers you'll see on Deepbit...

huayra.agera

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Quote from: goatpig on May 18, 2011, 01:04:35 PM

Quote from: huayra.agera on May 18, 2011, 12:45:57 PM

Getting clearer. Tell me if I'm getting this right, I should set up House A rigs and House B rigs with the same bitcoin.conf and wallet.dat and the credit for example when a block is found would go to the one wallet I setup for both rigs. Just trying to be a solution to this pooled mining problem. =) Thanks!

It's that more or less. The first transaction in a block is the 50BTC reward. To solve the block header you need to create the Merkle root for those transactions, which is unique to you since the address you would be publishing to cash in the 50BTC is unique for each competing miner (unless you're feeling charitable and want to write in my address =P). If you manage to solve the header, then you add the transactions of your choice plus the one that rewards your wallet with the 50BTC, and then it goes on to the network.

Guess the only way to find you is try. But understood the concept. Like they said it should be a no brainer. Just wanted to make sure we're on the same page. +1

Quote from: mroth7684 on May 18, 2011, 12:48:56 PM

Quote from: huayra.agera on May 18, 2011, 12:45:57 PM

Getting clearer. Tell me if I'm getting this right, I should set up House A rigs and House B rigs with the same bitcoin.conf and wallet.dat and the credit for example when a block is found would go to the one wallet I setup for both rigs. Just trying to be a solution to this pooled mining problem. =) Thanks!

Clearly the solution is flaming each other. Seems to be working so far.

Seems to work for others.

goatpig

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Armory Developer

Quote from: huayra.agera on May 18, 2011, 12:45:57 PM

Getting clearer. Tell me if I'm getting this right, I should set up House A rigs and House B rigs with the same bitcoin.conf and wallet.dat and the credit for example when a block is found would go to the one wallet I setup for both rigs. Just trying to be a solution to this pooled mining problem. =) Thanks!

It's that more or less. The first transaction in a block is the 50BTC reward. To solve the block header you need to create the Merkle root for those transactions, which is unique to you since the address you would be publishing to cash in the 50BTC is unique for each competing miner (unless you're feeling charitable and want to write in my address =P). If you manage to solve the header, then you add the transactions of your choice plus the one that rewards your wallet with the 50BTC, and then it goes on to the network.

mroth7684

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Quote from: huayra.agera on May 18, 2011, 12:45:57 PM

Getting clearer. Tell me if I'm getting this right, I should set up House A rigs and House B rigs with the same bitcoin.conf and wallet.dat and the credit for example when a block is found would go to the one wallet I setup for both rigs. Just trying to be a solution to this pooled mining problem. =) Thanks!

Clearly the solution is flaming each other. Seems to be working so far.

huayra.agera

full member

Activity: 154

Merit: 100

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: huayra.agera on May 18, 2011, 06:04:34 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Solo mining (very brief) guide:

1. one bitcoin daemon, many miners. (OBMM)

On your local network you run one bitcoind. It is listening on 127.0.0.1:8332 . Unless there are improvement in latest version and you do not want to hack bitcoind source code you can simply run a http proxy which listens on one of your LAN IP's and proxyes it to 127.0.0.1:8332. I personally use haproxy with 5 line config. You than point your miners to this proxy.

2. many bitcoin daemons, many miners. (MBMM)

On every miner machine you run it's own bitcoind and point your miners software to local bitcoind daemon listening on 127.0.0.1:8332.

3. one bitcoin daemon, many miners via ssh (OBMMssh)

Same as OBMM but you use ssh port forwarding to get access to bitcoind's machine 127.0.0.1:8332. Check out autossh.

i've always been interested in setting up a pool for my gpus. How do i connect let's say miners 4 and 5 to 1,2,3? Scenario is gpu 4&5 are in another house, how do i make the 5 gpus combine their hashing power into solving a block cooperatively? I hope I'm clear on my explanation. Any help would be very greatly appreciated!

Nothing stops you from having two internal pools one in one house and one in another. Or one pool per machine i.e. a separate bitcoin daemon for each miner.

They always work cooperatively. Think about it as every machine buys you a billion of lottery tickets every second. It does not matter if you get money for lottery tickets pooled together and go to buy it in one shop once in a while or you send every machine on its own simultaneously to a separate shop to buy lottery tickets. The statistical expectation of winning is the same. Except you have to pay premium for bulk lottery ticket processing (pool fee).

Mining solo is really a nobrainer for anyone with more than a few Ghps.

Getting clearer. Tell me if I'm getting this right, I should set up House A rigs and House B rigs with the same bitcoin.conf and wallet.dat and the credit for example when a block is found would go to the one wallet I setup for both rigs. Just trying to be a solution to this pooled mining problem. =) Thanks!

goatpig

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Armory Developer

Quote from: Grinder on May 18, 2011, 12:18:23 PM

The goddamn utility bills...

What are you even talking about?

Quote

With Deepbit it would very quickly be noticed if it has been compromised, exactly because of the features I appreciate. You on the other hand could not know, because for all you know it could just be a particularly long round. You're really not very good at making up claims about what I would do.

How? What particular feature of any pool allows you to know fake transactions have been added to the block you help solve? I can't name a single one, no matter the pool. Yet other pools are immune to this fact simply because they don't hold enough hashing power on their own to keep forcing corrupt transactions down the network's throat. Deepbit isn't. Now indulge me, name those features. Educate me with your obviously adequate way.

Quote

It will be impossible not to.

So why won't you deal with it now?

Quote

If you are using a pool you are endangering the network.

You understand this yet you refuse to mitigate the effect? This is getting better by the minute...

Quote

Yet another straw man.

Born from the very stats your pool officially advertises?

Quote

Deepbit doesn't really need because of the high hash rate and 1 hr delay. It would probably be just as profitable and much easier to jump between BTCMine and Slush's pool to take advantage of particularly short rounds.

No. Jumping in score based pools is as close as it gets to charity...

N12

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Quote from: mroth7684 on May 18, 2011, 12:15:29 PM

If it controls 55% of the hashing power that means no one else can control greater than 45%.

I’ve read this three times now and can’t believe you are serious. Undecided

rezin777

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Quote from: mroth7684 on May 18, 2011, 12:15:29 PM

I think we have more to worry about from the Government getting involved than an attack from deepbit.

http://launch.is/blog/l019-bitcoin-p2p-currency-the-most-dangerous-project-weve-ev.html

Let's assume deepbit is secure and holy in its intentions and let's reverse the thought. If it controls 55% of the hashing power that means no one else can control greater than 45%. So the solution is to have a pool with greater than 50% of the hashing power and secure it like fort knox, Shocked

The solution is hundreds of small pool and thousands of solo miners...

You came from OCN didn't you?

If we have to worry about the government, they don't need to buy a single computer to hurt the network. If there already exists a pool with >50% of the network, .gov only needs to do what they are good at, control one guy. As the network stands right now, they only need to control two. Hell, they don't even need to control them, just replace them with someone smart enough to hurt the network.

Grinder

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Quote from: goatpig on May 18, 2011, 11:23:36 AM

The goddamn fee...

The goddamn utility bills...

Quote from: goatpig on May 18, 2011, 11:23:36 AM

It would be because of the accumulated hashrate of people like you who swarm one pool and will perpetuate that practice even if the pool has been compromised, all this for no good reason.

With Deepbit it would very quickly be noticed if it has been compromised, exactly because of the features I appreciate. You on the other hand could not know, because for all you know it could just be a particularly long round. You're really not very good at making up claims about what I would do.

Quote from: goatpig on May 18, 2011, 11:23:36 AM

No you won't deal with the consequences.

It will be impossible not to.

Quote from: goatpig on May 18, 2011, 11:23:36 AM

I'm not the one endangering the network, you are.

If you are using a pool you are endangering the network.

Quote from: goatpig on May 18, 2011, 11:23:36 AM

If you can't put it in your head with this that Deepbit has consequent variance, then there's nothing I can do for you.

Yet another straw man.

Quote from: goatpig on May 18, 2011, 11:23:36 AM

Here comes the irony. Score based pools defend against Raulo's attack, Deepbit doesn't.

Deepbit doesn't really need because of the high hash rate and 1 hr delay. It would probably be just as profitable and much easier to jump between BTCMine and Slush's pool to take advantage of particularly short rounds.

mroth7684

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I think we have more to worry about from the Government getting involved than an attack from deepbit.

http://launch.is/blog/l019-bitcoin-p2p-currency-the-most-dangerous-project-weve-ev.html

Let's assume deepbit is secure and holy in its intentions and let's reverse the thought. If it controls 55% of the hashing power that means no one else can control greater than 45%. So the solution is to have a pool with greater than 50% of the hashing power and secure it like fort knox, Shocked

Topic: You are threatening Bitcoin’s security - page 2. (Read 32360 times)