Topic: You are threatening Bitcoin’s security - page 7. (Read 32360 times)

As mentioned before, problem would easily be solved if there were more publicly-available pooling servers with usable web frontends. You'd see a lot smaller pools of 10-100 people and would make it viable to setup pools for friends/communities (with little to no fees).

Figures, the only mining pool I haven't glanced at yet..I'll try them after testing out SWE Pool for a while. Which is another new pool that supports PPS.

I conclude that most of the miners are short-sighted people directly selling their Bitcoins for Dollars. They mine on deepbit because it’s too much of a hassle to switch or they don’t really know that a single entity (or even a few entities) in control of >50% of the network’s hashrate are dangerous, and even then, as long as they can convert their BTC into USD today, they won’t care.

If Bitcoin fails, the grashoppers just move on. Nice!

I am here not to reclaim public, distributed control over a currency.  I am here simply to mine bitcoin and make a profit.  I don't really care if bitcoin fails.  There will be other cryto currency to replace bitcoin if bitcoin fails and that might be a good thing.

BTC Guild does payouts on demand (pay me now button) for confirmed transactions, and unconfirmed transactions if you voluntarily donate 2.5%+. They don't however have threshold payout yet (not sure if he plans on implementing that).

It is already conceivable that slush and tycho are the same person.

Yes.

Hmm...

If this happened, couldn't I just pull my miners off of deepbit?  It's not like I sent him my GPUS or anything.  Once the "rogue code" was identified wouldn't it also be rejected by the community?

Or unless you are thinking they will DDOS for a week straight all over pools or something like that over the longterm.  But then, once again people could simply unplug from deepbit.

Honestly it sounds like the other pools want a bigger share, and thus more money.  Not necessarily for "security."

Whatever portpho.  I've already paid for the hardware I've purchased to mine with, so... whatever.  If you don't like it or believe in it, that's fine.  I'll take my free video cards and computers, and whatever other bitcoins/cash floats my way in the coming months. 

And pool operators DESERVE to take a scrape off the top.  They went through the trouble to build the pool and manage it day to day.  Of course they deserve a share of the profits!  I have no problem with that.

As far as extra skimmings off the top, well, we should probably verify that that isn't happening with the use of statistics.  But I wouldn't go so far as to say that such skimming is definitely happening without some proof to back it up.

Sure, the currency could go down the pot someday if your conspiracy theories end up being true.  Just like USD could for a variety of other reasons.  Or any other currency.  Or my house might go up in flames, or get broken in to.  I don't stop living life because there is some risk involved.

You can't know that SgtSpike. All you know is what he tells you.

He could easily be lying about pool statistics or could simply have his own unpublished datacenter that puts him over the top.

For all you know, the pool operators are colluding to enrich each other at the expense of everyone else.

Bitcoin is obviously deeply flawed and only gullible idiots are buying into this pyramid scheme.

How hard would it be for the top 3 pool operators to collude and skim off a few coins here and there? What is their incentive NOT to? It sounds to me like all the profit is for the pool operators here, and you suckers are just falling for the latest MLM. I'm sure last week you were buying Avon soap trying to get rich.

You are the type of people who answer newspaper ads that say "I made $10,000 per week working from home!!"

Gullible idiots who trust people on blind faith. Not the cryptographer's way.

I don't mind the hour delay, It's those confirms that I do mind. It takes WELL over an hour to get 100-120 confirms. Like I said, If there was a pool that handled it almost exactly like deepbit does. I'd switch.

I wish I could object. Thank you for putting this in clear terms.

Except, he doesn't.  He's close to having enough power to do so, but he doesn't yet.

I am not sure what issue you had in April, but BTCMine has been fantastic as of late.  Score based has its anti-abuse advantage, but it does have a disadvantage when the pool is small; you can't stop your miner to play a game or other GPU intensive application without most likely losing payment for all the work you did in that round if it continues long after you cut.  Having said that, BTCMine is not that little anymore  And, it is not huge ... exactly what we need more of.   I would like to see people go to it from deepbit to the point of reducing exposure to attack, but other than that, I am glad there are a lot of choices, larger and smaller.

This thread demonstrates why bitcoin is a joke and always will be.

You people flock to bitcoin supposedly to reclaim public, distributed control over a currency, and then you just give away the power to the first pool operator who asks for it.

What a joke.

The fact that people are actually arguing here that "deepbit would never do such a thing" is unbelievable. Is he Jesus now? Is he your new guru? I thought the entire point of bitcoin was that no one would be the guru, no one would have control.

And then you have the incredibly naive and ignorant argument that if someone abused the network people would "rally" to save it. What fantasy world is this? That's not what would happen. People would abandon the currency because they don't want to sink more money into a flawed concept and flawed community.

Amateur hour. The fact that one man already actively controls enough cryptographic power to break the validity of the currency with NO OVERSIGHT and people put their BLIND FAITH in him..... no serious person is going to have confidence in the currency when they learn that the exact exploit conditions presented by the creator have already been fulfilled, and not through investing significant personal resources either, but fulfilled because bitcoin users VOLUNTARILY GAVE AWAY their cryptographic authority to him. Amazing!

 

I agree with the OP and others: the oligopoly of the pools and the monopoly of MtGox has already made the talk about decentralized Bitcoin a pure fantasy, and a disingenuous advertising gimmick... 

The people who really did that were not the pool operators or the late comers. It was the early adopters who started to mine with GPU's that forced people who
couldn't afford top GPU's into pools. It wasn't enough for people like ArtForz just to get their large share as early adopters. They wanted to shovel B with clusters and become "Bitcoin billionaires" out of simple, old-fashioned greed, and just because they could...  (Same with MtG, but that's a different topic...)

They are the ones who created this security issue. I think the solution should be limits built into the protocol, but they would never accept that either, because just as with the traditional Wall-Street bankers, no amount of money is enough for them...

One thing i can say for myself: if Bitcoin gets attacked the DDOS-for-51% way, i am not going to "mine at a loss" to protect their fortunes, just as i wasn't for Wall-Street bank bailouts... 
 

Yes.

i understood that part of the argument... but my point was, hiding your true operating power in multiple pools so it doesnt look like a single entity is coming ahead... is a danger.

You misunderstood the argument.  Lets say that DB is 40%, slush is 30%, eligius is 20%.   You get 11% of the network hashing power, way less than half. Then you DOS attack those three pools. You now have 51% of the _remaining_ hash power.

This attack is much harder with less pool concentration.




Yes, your computer can't even see the work it's doing for the pool because the work is hashed, it only works on the block header.  But the pool could not be evil completely undetectably. There is an argument that it's much easier for a pool to undetectably skim from their users, so if they were evil they'd do that instead... but lots of arguments against big pools have been given here which don't require evil.

I started mining at deepbit when it was at 60Gh/s. I left once it hit 500Gh/s. I've been at btcmine ever since.