Lots of people are MISSING THE GODAMN POINT.
With 3 pools having way more than 50% of power (this already happens), WE DO NOT NEED THE POOL OPERATORS TO DO SHIT, WE ONLY NEED SOMEONE TO DDOS THEM TO HAVE BITCOIN FAIL.
You people understood now?
Ok, I already wrote that before and it do not worked.
WE DO NOT NEED THE POOL OPERATORS TO DO SHIT, WE ONLY NEED SOMEONE TO SOMEHOW SHUT THEM DOWN AT THE SAME TIME TO MAKE BITCOIN FAIL.
I hope now people understand better the risk of the 3 pools with more than 50%
Topic: You are threatening Bitcoin’s security - page 5. (Read 32415 times)
The idea Tycho would do something with his 'powers' as soon as his pool reaches 50% is just simply stupid.
Currently (in the current market) the guy makes 1000 - 1300$ PER DAY , that is 30k to 39k PER MONTH. In untaxed money even.
He would be stupid to do anything to destabilize the bitcoin market.
So what? There are lots of entities that would like to endanger Bitcoin and they would certainly bribe/infiltrate with money that would let your figures look like peanuts. But yeah, let’s just wait until this happens and trust in Bitcoin vanishes in an instant. As long as you can get USD for your Bitcoins everything’s fine.Currently (in the current market) the guy makes 1000 - 1300$ PER DAY , that is 30k to 39k PER MONTH. In untaxed money even.
He would be stupid to do anything to destabilize the bitcoin market.
Yes, there's a long theoretical list of people who might like to endanger Bitcoin. If any one of them have that much cash available to them then they can also build a super cluster and/or manipulate/corner the market. Both can be accomplished pretty easily and with relative anonymity for someone with said amount of cash. Trust would only vanish for people who are only worried about getting USD for their Bitcoins.
The idea Tycho would do something with his 'powers' as soon as his pool reaches 50% is just simply stupid.
Currently (in the current market) the guy makes 1000 - 1300$ PER DAY , that is 30k to 39k PER MONTH. In untaxed money even.
He would be stupid to do anything to destabilize the bitcoin market.
So what? There are lots of entities that would like to endanger Bitcoin and they would certainly bribe/infiltrate with money that would let your figures look like peanuts. But yeah, let’s just wait until this happens and trust in Bitcoin vanishes in an instant. As long as you can get USD for your Bitcoins everything’s fine.Currently (in the current market) the guy makes 1000 - 1300$ PER DAY , that is 30k to 39k PER MONTH. In untaxed money even.
He would be stupid to do anything to destabilize the bitcoin market.
Yes, there's a long theoretical list of people who might like to endanger Bitcoin. If any one of them have that much cash available to them then they can also build a super cluster and/or manipulate/corner the market. Both can be accomplished pretty easily and with relative anonymity for someone with said amount of cash. Trust would only vanish for people who are only worried about getting USD for their Bitcoins.
The idea Tycho would do something with his 'powers' as soon as his pool reaches 50% is just simply stupid.
Currently (in the current market) the guy makes 1000 - 1300$ PER DAY , that is 30k to 39k PER MONTH. In untaxed money even.
He would be stupid to do anything to destabilize the bitcoin market.
So what? There are lots of entities that would like to endanger Bitcoin and they would certainly bribe/infiltrate with money that would let your figures look like peanuts. But yeah, let’s just wait until this happens and trust in Bitcoin vanishes in an instant. As long as you can get USD for your Bitcoins everything’s fine. Currently (in the current market) the guy makes 1000 - 1300$ PER DAY , that is 30k to 39k PER MONTH. In untaxed money even.
He would be stupid to do anything to destabilize the bitcoin market.
The idea Tycho would do something with his 'powers' as soon as his pool reaches 50% is just simply stupid.
Currently (in the current market) the guy makes 1000 - 1300$ PER DAY , that is 30k to 39k PER MONTH. In untaxed money even.
He would be stupid to do anything to destabilize the bitcoin market.
Currently (in the current market) the guy makes 1000 - 1300$ PER DAY , that is 30k to 39k PER MONTH. In untaxed money even.
He would be stupid to do anything to destabilize the bitcoin market.
Solo mining (very brief) guide:
1. one bitcoin daemon, many miners. (OBMM)
On your local network you run one bitcoind. It is listening on 127.0.0.1:8332 . Unless there are improvement in latest version and you do not want to hack bitcoind source code you can simply run a http proxy which listens on one of your LAN IP's and proxyes it to 127.0.0.1:8332. I personally use haproxy with 5 line config. You than point your miners to this proxy.
2. many bitcoin daemons, many miners. (MBMM)
On every miner machine you run it's own bitcoind and point your miners software to local bitcoind daemon listening on 127.0.0.1:8332.
3. one bitcoin daemon, many miners via ssh (OBMMssh)
Same as OBMM but you use ssh port forwarding to get access to bitcoind's machine 127.0.0.1:8332. Check out autossh.
i've always been interested in setting up a pool for my gpus. How do i connect let's say miners 4 and 5 to 1,2,3? Scenario is gpu 4&5 are in another house, how do i make the 5 gpus combine their hashing power into solving a block cooperatively? I hope I'm clear on my explanation. Any help would be very greatly appreciated! 1. one bitcoin daemon, many miners. (OBMM)
On your local network you run one bitcoind. It is listening on 127.0.0.1:8332 . Unless there are improvement in latest version and you do not want to hack bitcoind source code you can simply run a http proxy which listens on one of your LAN IP's and proxyes it to 127.0.0.1:8332. I personally use haproxy with 5 line config. You than point your miners to this proxy.
2. many bitcoin daemons, many miners. (MBMM)
On every miner machine you run it's own bitcoind and point your miners software to local bitcoind daemon listening on 127.0.0.1:8332.
3. one bitcoin daemon, many miners via ssh (OBMMssh)
Same as OBMM but you use ssh port forwarding to get access to bitcoind's machine 127.0.0.1:8332. Check out autossh.
just move half of your gpus/rigs to other mine
This thread topic is exactly why I never thought that open pools were a good idea. That said, the ability to create more pools will lead to a proliferation of said pools competing for contributers. So it's unlikely that any one pool could ever collect the 50% minimum in order to attack the blockchain even for a short while, as the more pools there continue to be, the less of a percentage that each is ever likely to be able to accumulate.
Actually, the reason why I use Deepbit is that all the others I would consider are so small. Size is one of Deepbits biggest competitive advantages, because the whole point of using a pool is to get a regular flow of bitcoins. More pools means that the remaining hashing power is spread even thinner. That just increases Deepbit's advantage.
This thread topic is exactly why I never thought that open pools were a good idea. That said, the ability to create more pools will lead to a proliferation of said pools competing for contributers. So it's unlikely that any one pool could ever collect the 50% minimum in order to attack the blockchain even for a short while, as the more pools there continue to be, the less of a percentage that each is ever likely to be able to accumulate.
Actually, the reason why I use Deepbit is that all the others I would consider are so small. Size is one of Deepbits biggest competitive advantages, because the whole point of using a pool is to get a regular flow of bitcoins. More pools means that the remaining hashing power is spread even thinner. That just increases Deepbit's advantage.
Well, this just upsets me. I hope deepbit looses the market soon or we might have trouble.
I've used btcmine since the beginning, and I believe I will keep it that way or set up my own mining pool.
I've used btcmine since the beginning, and I believe I will keep it that way or set up my own mining pool.
Deepbit isn't "instant" too, it takes one hour to show block on the account...
It does, but if you do an instant payout you will get all the bitcoins you've earned up to that point. That includes bitcoins that were earned after the full hour balance update. Quote
Except the community is the one causing the "problem". It's not Tyco's or Slush's fault that a majority of people are using their services! It's pretty basic nature that most people want to be part of the largest group. So far the only "do something" I have seen is to ask them to limit their member, to which I would say no if I were them. Again, this is the 3rd time I have seen the argument that they need to be regulated when people are going to them freely. The only thing that can be done it to ask/motivate miners to diversify themselves. The only way to reach them all is for the pool to disappear since some percentage of them probably don't use the forums let alone live on them. It's also not very productive to try to get people to diversify in threads like this that start out dramatic, post incorrect information, and degenerate into flaming and conspiracy.
The basis of bitcoin is a free (as in open) currency and economy, even down to the code. I'm shocked! ShOcKeD! I tell you that free market principles have sprung up. Simple stuff like, providing the best service for an acceptble fee for example. Who would have though?!
Well yes, the community is the 'problem', but only out of ignorance. An astounding amount of deepbit pool users that I've chatted to don't even know how to edit their bitcoin.conf to solo mine. Once they become cognisant of the fact that distributed pools are probably a lot better (or neutral) for themselves profit-wise (and for the well-being of bitcoin's longevity and security in general), we will probably see a change. Once setting up a pool becomes easy/straightforward for users with little technical knowledge, the numbers in these huge pools will likely diminish or at least stop increasing at the rates they are.
> An astounding amount of deepbit pool users that I've chatted to don't even know how to edit their bitcoin.conf to solo mine.
An astounding amount probably don't care and aren't willing to learn how to do it as long as they are making money in the pool they are at. Unless you want to manage a bunch of people's setups manually a lot of them are probably better off left there until they come looking for the information. It depends on how they were introduced to bitcoin. Some probably got some very specific instructions on how to set it up, some got it set up for them, some set it up themselves but don't know or care about anything past that, then there's the ones who actually know more about it overall and willing and capable to learn more.
> Once setting up a pool becomes easy/straightforward for users with little technical knowledge,
No matter how easy you try to make something it will be too much for some people. No matter how idiot proof you make something they will always make a better idiot. There's only so far you can go to make it easy for the non technical that don't want to learn.
Quote
Except the community is the one causing the "problem". It's not Tyco's or Slush's fault that a majority of people are using their services! It's pretty basic nature that most people want to be part of the largest group. So far the only "do something" I have seen is to ask them to limit their member, to which I would say no if I were them. Again, this is the 3rd time I have seen the argument that they need to be regulated when people are going to them freely. The only thing that can be done it to ask/motivate miners to diversify themselves. The only way to reach them all is for the pool to disappear since some percentage of them probably don't use the forums let alone live on them. It's also not very productive to try to get people to diversify in threads like this that start out dramatic, post incorrect information, and degenerate into flaming and conspiracy.
The basis of bitcoin is a free (as in open) currency and economy, even down to the code. I'm shocked! ShOcKeD! I tell you that free market principles have sprung up. Simple stuff like, providing the best service for an acceptble fee for example. Who would have though?!
Well yes, the community is the 'problem', but only out of ignorance. An astounding amount of deepbit pool users that I've chatted to don't even know how to edit their bitcoin.conf to solo mine. Once they become cognisant of the fact that distributed pools are probably a lot better (or neutral) for themselves profit-wise (and for the well-being of bitcoin's longevity and security in general), we will probably see a change. Once setting up a pool becomes easy/straightforward for users with little technical knowledge, the numbers in these huge pools will likely diminish or at least stop increasing at the rates they are.
The basis of bitcoin is a free (as in open) currency and economy, even down to the code. I'm shocked! ShOcKeD! I tell you that free market principles have sprung up. Simple stuff like, providing the best service for an acceptble fee for example. Who would have though?!
I can't wait for an attack to occur. I want to see if the resilience of Bitcoin is worth the time and effort so many have put into it.
I wouldn't call it an attack (though I haven't seen any details other than slush was offline), but the system recovered pretty quickly when slush's pool went down. I have quite a bit of faith that the network can recover if all the big pools were maliciously attacked to the point that were taken offline for an extended period of time. Even though I don't mine solo, I tested it before moving to a pool, I know how to set it up and could move over to it pretty quickly if need be.
The basis of bitcoin is a free (as in open) currency and economy, even down to the code. I'm shocked! ShOcKeD! I tell you that free market principles have sprung up. Simple stuff like, providing the best service for an acceptble fee for example. Who would have though?!
I have high hopes for this project, but I have to wonder where it can go when people refuse take account of their actions.
I've listened to various systems be blamed for the suffering of humanity, but when a brilliant system comes along and people manage to fuck it up regardless, I have to ask myself, is it the fault of the system or the users.
It will go to the scape goats because as you said, people will refuse to take responsibility. Just like it's all the pool owners faults that they are so big and successful. Right?
People will manage to screw up any system they're given. Purely because someone always thinks they can do it better or it's not meeting their expectations, so they need to regulate it.
A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals, and you know it. - Agent K, Men in Black
The basis of bitcoin is a free (as in open) currency and economy, even down to the code. I'm shocked! ShOcKeD! I tell you that free market principles have sprung up. Simple stuff like, providing the best service for an acceptble fee for example. Who would have though?!
You are missing the point that people are short sighted. They are making money now. If an attack occurs, trust in Bitcoin as a valid currency, store of value, speculator's toy, ect, would diminish rapidly and everyone mining would cease to profit from it. It's terribly difficult to imagine a day beyond tomorrow, I know.
I see arguments that a pool operator would not cut off his nose despite his face. Obviously he wouldn't. Have you people ever heard of governments forcing people to do what they want them to do. Forget the double-spend, that is child's play. The real concern is that the Bitcoin network is no longer able to be trusted because it is so easily corrupted. Who could possibly have motive to crush Bitcoin?
I think Satoshi did an amazing job, but it is difficult to see everything in the future. Hindsight is of course 20/20. Why in the name of all things holy would you tempt fate by giving away the requirements for an attack for a bit of variance security?
I have high hopes for this project, but I have to wonder where it can go when people refuse take account of their actions.
I've listened to various systems be blamed for the suffering of humanity, but when a brilliant system comes along and people manage to fuck it up regardless, I have to ask myself, is it the fault of the system or the users.
I can't wait for an attack to occur. I want to see if the resilience of Bitcoin is worth the time and effort so many have put into it.
I recommend anyone with more than one-two decent GPU's to mine solo. It is more efficient long term. It increases security of bitcoin. The only downside of solo mining is purely psychological "not boiling pot" syndrome.
Myself and my clients are mining solo and stopped using third party pools long time ago.
Myself and my clients are mining solo and stopped using third party pools long time ago.
Im taking your advise and taking my 3Gh/s off Deepit.
1. one bitcoin daemon, many miners. (OBMM)
On your local network you run one bitcoind. It is listening on 127.0.0.1:8332 . Unless there are improvement in latest version and you do not want to hack bitcoind source code you can simply run a http proxy which listens on one of your LAN IP's and proxyes it to 127.0.0.1:8332. I personally use haproxy with 5 line config. You than point your miners to this proxy.
3. one bitcoin daemon, many miners via ssh (OBMMssh)
Same as OBMM but you use ssh port forwarding to get access to bitcoind's machine 127.0.0.1:8332. Check out autossh.
On your local network you run one bitcoind. It is listening on 127.0.0.1:8332 . Unless there are improvement in latest version and you do not want to hack bitcoind source code you can simply run a http proxy which listens on one of your LAN IP's and proxyes it to 127.0.0.1:8332. I personally use haproxy with 5 line config. You than point your miners to this proxy.
3. one bitcoin daemon, many miners via ssh (OBMMssh)
Same as OBMM but you use ssh port forwarding to get access to bitcoind's machine 127.0.0.1:8332. Check out autossh.
Specifying "-rpcallowip=" switches from binding to localhost (127.0.0.1) to binding to * (any local address).
No need for proxies, on a LAN.
I've been mining for a few months now and I started on Slush's then switched to Bitcoin Pool then switched to Deepbit then switched to Eligius. This morning before I finally went to sleep I decided to give solo mining on my video card a try. Went and did stuff today and when I got home a couple hours ago I had already found a block! I had "found" blocks a few times when I was pooled mining but this is my first whole solo block and I am one happy camper. What are the odds? 
Solo mining (very brief) guide:
1. one bitcoin daemon, many miners. (OBMM)
On your local network you run one bitcoind. It is listening on 127.0.0.1:8332 . Unless there are improvement in latest version and you do not want to hack bitcoind source code you can simply run a http proxy which listens on one of your LAN IP's and proxyes it to 127.0.0.1:8332. I personally use haproxy with 5 line config. You than point your miners to this proxy.
2. many bitcoin daemons, many miners. (MBMM)
On every miner machine you run it's own bitcoind and point your miners software to local bitcoind daemon listening on 127.0.0.1:8332.
3. one bitcoin daemon, many miners via ssh (OBMMssh)
Same as OBMM but you use ssh port forwarding to get access to bitcoind's machine 127.0.0.1:8332. Check out autossh.
1. one bitcoin daemon, many miners. (OBMM)
On your local network you run one bitcoind. It is listening on 127.0.0.1:8332 . Unless there are improvement in latest version and you do not want to hack bitcoind source code you can simply run a http proxy which listens on one of your LAN IP's and proxyes it to 127.0.0.1:8332. I personally use haproxy with 5 line config. You than point your miners to this proxy.
2. many bitcoin daemons, many miners. (MBMM)
On every miner machine you run it's own bitcoind and point your miners software to local bitcoind daemon listening on 127.0.0.1:8332.
3. one bitcoin daemon, many miners via ssh (OBMMssh)
Same as OBMM but you use ssh port forwarding to get access to bitcoind's machine 127.0.0.1:8332. Check out autossh.
Hmm. So does solo mining have any issues with working on stale blocks? I notice deepbit does the "long pull" and tells me whether the share I'm working on has already been completed.
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