You have to prove that you can take the loss - page 4.

Kong Hey Pakboy

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Quote from: AicecreaME on August 26, 2020, 08:32:12 AM

Quote from: Betwrong on August 26, 2020, 06:12:12 AM

Quote from: freedomgo on August 25, 2020, 05:03:24 AM

~

Quote from: Betwrong on August 25, 2020, 03:02:00 AM

Also, it is a common misconception that casino wants to take all your money. What casino really wants is to have a lot of players and earn from the house edge. It doesn't care about whether a particular player winning or losing.

That's the common line of the losers, they can't accept that casinos are winning and they are losing.
With house edge, they can win most of the time, but they'll never win all the time, but if you are gambling with a house edge, it's expected that you'll lose in the long run as you don't have the edge, it's pretty simple, so I hope they'll understand that before gambling.

I'm not sure I understand what are you trying to say.

If it is expected that you'll lose in the long run(and by the "long run" we mean millions of games played, right?), you shouldn't gamble at all? Is that what you are saying?

I personally think that it would be more right to say that it is expected that casino will win in the long run, but it's not necessarily that casino will beat you in particular.

Most likely they were saying is that Gambling is a selfish business that all they care is about the money of players, which is normal because that is why it's called "business". However, those players who are always losing concluded that gambling sites or casinos will never let you win but will going to take all your money, which again is normal.

Casinos or gambling sites works that way because that's how they make bankroll every single day. Gambling sites never force anyone to play, therefore gamblers are the one who is responsible for their actions, whether they win or not.

Indeed. It is the reason why casino owners earn money in their gambling business that they take all away the money of every gamblers losses, which is definitely normal. So gamblers are really the one's who is responsible for their action because it is their choice to risk all of their money. It is why if you want to enjoy gambling, even you experiences losses you should only overcome greed.

Pamadar

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Quote from: South Park on August 26, 2020, 12:43:20 PM

Quote from: FlightyPouch on August 23, 2020, 05:34:18 PM

Quote from: FontSeli on August 23, 2020, 05:25:28 PM

...most likely ordinary players who do not have problems with gambling addiction will suffer.

I agree, especially those people that can take those losses ten or even maybe a hundred times the set cap by this regulation. I don't think they will be willing to face an ombudsman just to prove that they can take a loss since that might affect their persona negatively knowing that they are gambling like that and in that huge amount.

This is a law that does not benefit anyone and at the same time it affects the majority of gamblers that have their gambling under their control but that now need to follow this dumb regulation, and if you really think about it you will realize that the law is completely pointless because those that are addicted to gambling and that are losing huge amounts of money in it will find another way to gamble or they will find another way to lose their money and at the end they will end up in the same situation as before.

Most of us have that same sentiments, it's not going to benefits those gamblers who know how to take their losses, the approval of this rules will really affects those gambling sites who are legally facilitated, while gamblers will choose to find other ways to hide their activities.

It wont help either way, as while helping gambling addicts you also removing gamblers from playing inside legit casino house.

South Park

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Quote from: FlightyPouch on August 23, 2020, 05:34:18 PM

Quote from: FontSeli on August 23, 2020, 05:25:28 PM

...most likely ordinary players who do not have problems with gambling addiction will suffer.

I agree, especially those people that can take those losses ten or even maybe a hundred times the set cap by this regulation. I don't think they will be willing to face an ombudsman just to prove that they can take a loss since that might affect their persona negatively knowing that they are gambling like that and in that huge amount.

This is a law that does not benefit anyone and at the same time it affects the majority of gamblers that have their gambling under their control but that now need to follow this dumb regulation, and if you really think about it you will realize that the law is completely pointless because those that are addicted to gambling and that are losing huge amounts of money in it will find another way to gamble or they will find another way to lose their money and at the end they will end up in the same situation as before.

AicecreaME

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Quote from: Betwrong on August 26, 2020, 06:12:12 AM

Quote from: freedomgo on August 25, 2020, 05:03:24 AM

~

Quote from: Betwrong on August 25, 2020, 03:02:00 AM

Also, it is a common misconception that casino wants to take all your money. What casino really wants is to have a lot of players and earn from the house edge. It doesn't care about whether a particular player winning or losing.

That's the common line of the losers, they can't accept that casinos are winning and they are losing.
With house edge, they can win most of the time, but they'll never win all the time, but if you are gambling with a house edge, it's expected that you'll lose in the long run as you don't have the edge, it's pretty simple, so I hope they'll understand that before gambling.

I'm not sure I understand what are you trying to say.

If it is expected that you'll lose in the long run(and by the "long run" we mean millions of games played, right?), you shouldn't gamble at all? Is that what you are saying?

I personally think that it would be more right to say that it is expected that casino will win in the long run, but it's not necessarily that casino will beat you in particular.

Most likely they were saying is that Gambling is a selfish business that all they care is about the money of players, which is normal because that is why it's called "business". However, those players who are always losing concluded that gambling sites or casinos will never let you win but will going to take all your money, which again is normal.

Casinos or gambling sites works that way because that's how they make bankroll every single day. Gambling sites never force anyone to play, therefore gamblers are the one who is responsible for their actions, whether they win or not.

Betwrong

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Quote from: freedomgo on August 25, 2020, 05:03:24 AM

~

Quote from: Betwrong on August 25, 2020, 03:02:00 AM

Also, it is a common misconception that casino wants to take all your money. What casino really wants is to have a lot of players and earn from the house edge. It doesn't care about whether a particular player winning or losing.

That's the common line of the losers, they can't accept that casinos are winning and they are losing.
With house edge, they can win most of the time, but they'll never win all the time, but if you are gambling with a house edge, it's expected that you'll lose in the long run as you don't have the edge, it's pretty simple, so I hope they'll understand that before gambling.

I'm not sure I understand what are you trying to say.

If it is expected that you'll lose in the long run(and by the "long run" we mean millions of games played, right?), you shouldn't gamble at all? Is that what you are saying?

I personally think that it would be more right to say that it is expected that casino will win in the long run, but it's not necessarily that casino will beat you in particular.

Ucy

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Quote from: FontSeli on August 23, 2020, 05:25:28 PM

Quote from: glowing10 on August 23, 2020, 10:35:08 AM

Quote from: FontSeli on August 22, 2020, 04:19:20 PM

Quote from: LogitechMouse on August 22, 2020, 05:52:49 AM

Addiction of the gamblers isn't tolerable especially if they are always doing it. The government can't do anything to but to do things like this that can help these addicted gamblers lessen their addiction into it.

I'm thinking too if the regulation that the government will put into these gambling casinos will affect the tax that they are paying or not. Hmmmmmm but anyway this will be a great help for the gamblers but I doubt that all of them will agree with this move.

It seems to me that ordinary players who do not have an addiction and like to sometimes spend time playing, will suffer from such restrictions. A dependent person will always find ways to circumvent the restrictions and continue playing as much as they want. Forbidden fruit is sweet.

If that person could prove that losing some money would not be an issue and can easily manage after that as well then should not be worry. But for those who are form hand to mouth situation then yes those people will have some tough time as this is government decision and can be seen form both the sides.

As a rule, government decisions may not be ideal for everyone. Because people are different and gambling addiction is different for everyone. Therefore, they cannot meet the interests of absolutely everyone. Someone will be harmed in their own interests and, as is usually the case, most likely ordinary players who do not have problems with gambling addiction will suffer.

I think the governments can make such rules/law "fair & just", by simply focusing on players who bet what they can't afford to lose. That includes both the wealthy and regular people/bettors. Both take big risk with their funds, so I don't see why one would be excluded from it.
This is why it's good to do these things via consensus, so one side does not dominate the other with unjust laws/rules. Besides, thorough and transparent research should've been conducted to help them base their final decision on fact/truth, and not what they think/want/feel.

Mauser

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Quote from: qwertyup23 on August 25, 2020, 11:09:55 PM

Although I highly appreciate the the efforts made by the government in order to address gambling addiction, they should not meddle on choices based on people's desire to gamble. If the the government regulates gambling by proving that 'you can handle such loss' then this could only be destructive in the long run. In addition, putting a soft cap of 100 euros will not help as people would circumvent and try to find a way in order to get pass through this regulation.

If the government sees gambling addiction as a major disadvantage, then creating job opportunities or providing other means of recreational activities can definitely help. Once you put this regulation, people will only be more inclined to know ways of breaking this implementation.

I agree with you that the hard cap of 100 EUR is just wrong. In my opinion it definitely makes sense to monitor loses of visitors on casinos and you find outliers, where people lose a lot of money in short time. Then there should definitely be a support system it place. But fixing loses to a pre determined number seems wrong, because different people have various amounts of money to gamble with. 100 EUR might be a lot of money for one person and only pocket change for someone else. It all depends on the risk involved.
Addicitions are a problem in every form for the government, including addicitions for acohol, drugs or gambling. It ruins peoples lifes. The economic costs down the road for such addictions are much higher.

peter0425

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Quote from: iTradeChips on August 25, 2020, 11:02:57 AM

Quote from: peter0425 on August 25, 2020, 07:57:16 AM

Quote from: Saisher on August 23, 2020, 06:57:19 PM

Quote from: FontSeli on August 23, 2020, 06:20:48 PM

I very much doubt that people will even want to give out information about themselves that they actually play gambling games in online casinos. In society, as a rule, there is a bias towards people who play in casinos. Therefore, in some cases, even the fact that someone will know about your online casino games will be enough for a person to stop playing in an online casino.

Government or any public or private organization should not intervene or interrupt in any activity that people are doing that may have a bad impression in the public, the general society has a bad impression on gamblers and this will discriminate them, they can just pose serious warnings but it's on the person to imposed it to himself not the government.

But sometimes Government must interfere to help the people or the addicted person because this can even effect the economy,imagine too much addict in gambling?they are burden to the community and their family for sure.

i Support government in this kind of action and hoping each government will do the same for the goodness of their own people.

We can view this as a symptom of something else, I think, something in the mind is corrupting the mental faculties of these gamblers, losing their control over their urge to gamble and their willingness to give all they have to win and make big amounts of money. This needs to be dealt with the likes of anxiety and depression and addiction. In my opinion, this is a mental sickness and this needs mental specialists and psychologists to handle these people. Government should fund specialized sectors of the medical establishment that concentrates in combating addiction and depression.

I partly agreed but most of the time i believe that addiction comes from Desperation to become richer in easiest way,sorry to say but most of addcited gamblers are lazy people that don't want to stretch their body working instead they want easy money and this is why they fell into gambling when at first will let you win consecutively but after that?
all you got is losing and to the max that you don't even know addiction is right on your face.

qwertyup23

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Quote from: fiulpro on August 05, 2020, 10:24:28 PM

Although I highly appreciate the the efforts made by the government in order to address gambling addiction, they should not meddle on choices based on people's desire to gamble. If the the government regulates gambling by proving that 'you can handle such loss' then this could only be destructive in the long run. In addition, putting a soft cap of 100 euros will not help as people would circumvent and try to find a way in order to get pass through this regulation.

If the government sees gambling addiction as a major disadvantage, then creating job opportunities or providing other means of recreational activities can definitely help. Once you put this regulation, people will only be more inclined to know ways of breaking this implementation.

stadus

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Quote from: FontSeli on August 25, 2020, 01:47:38 PM

Quote from: Saisher on August 23, 2020, 06:57:19 PM

Quote from: FontSeli on August 23, 2020, 06:20:48 PM

I very much doubt that people will even want to give out information about themselves that they actually play gambling games in online casinos. In society, as a rule, there is a bias towards people who play in casinos. Therefore, in some cases, even the fact that someone will know about your online casino games will be enough for a person to stop playing in an online casino.

Government or any public or private organization should not intervene or interrupt in any activity that people are doing that may have a bad impression in the public, the general society has a bad impression on gamblers and this will discriminate them, they can just pose serious warnings but it's on the person to imposed it to himself not the government.

Government intervention in people's Affairs is a complex thing. Here it is important to observe a fine line, how to set the rules of the game and not directly interfere in people's Affairs. It seems to me that it is impossible to set limits on the amount of loss so that they do not affect anyone. Someone can afford to lose tens of thousands of dollars and still not get serious damage to the wallet. And for someone, losing a hundred bucks will already be a serious loss.

I agree with you, people who like to gamble higher than the set limit might have to divulge their financial information just to pass the requirement to gamble a higher amount, question is, are they willing to do that? I can already see that majority would say no.

FontSeli

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Quote from: Saisher on August 23, 2020, 06:57:19 PM

Quote from: FontSeli on August 23, 2020, 06:20:48 PM

I very much doubt that people will even want to give out information about themselves that they actually play gambling games in online casinos. In society, as a rule, there is a bias towards people who play in casinos. Therefore, in some cases, even the fact that someone will know about your online casino games will be enough for a person to stop playing in an online casino.

Government or any public or private organization should not intervene or interrupt in any activity that people are doing that may have a bad impression in the public, the general society has a bad impression on gamblers and this will discriminate them, they can just pose serious warnings but it's on the person to imposed it to himself not the government.

Government intervention in people's Affairs is a complex thing. Here it is important to observe a fine line, how to set the rules of the game and not directly interfere in people's Affairs. It seems to me that it is impossible to set limits on the amount of loss so that they do not affect anyone. Someone can afford to lose tens of thousands of dollars and still not get serious damage to the wallet. And for someone, losing a hundred bucks will already be a serious loss.

Pamadar

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Quote from: johhnyUA on August 24, 2020, 03:04:58 PM

Of course that will be no good for casino owners, because more regulations - more headache for any casino. But in that case, this is useful regulations, because every casino is highly interested to take everything from you to the last penny. And is something awful will happen later, this will be out of the casino (like one episode on my mind, when my neighbor killed his wife because of gambling addiction). So now it will be much harder for idiots to lose everything and for casino to take everything from idiots.

The casino will think about the regulations, and they will not make strict regulations for their members if that is not necessary. But if something worst happens in their casino and that is not on their regulations list, they can add new regulations so the members will follow that new rule. The casino will always have a way to take everything from the idiots who don't realize that because the casino will tempt them to play gambling more and more.

The casino have that capabilities, most from those trusted gambling house they can easily manipulate things to still favor them, if there's adjustment that they needed to follow they'll going to make sure that it won't take that big hit to there business, if it's a requirements that needed to follow there are still ways for bankers to continue alluring the gambler to keep playing.

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Quote from: peter0425 on August 25, 2020, 07:57:16 AM

Quote from: Saisher on August 23, 2020, 06:57:19 PM

Quote from: FontSeli on August 23, 2020, 06:20:48 PM

I very much doubt that people will even want to give out information about themselves that they actually play gambling games in online casinos. In society, as a rule, there is a bias towards people who play in casinos. Therefore, in some cases, even the fact that someone will know about your online casino games will be enough for a person to stop playing in an online casino.

Government or any public or private organization should not intervene or interrupt in any activity that people are doing that may have a bad impression in the public, the general society has a bad impression on gamblers and this will discriminate them, they can just pose serious warnings but it's on the person to imposed it to himself not the government.

But sometimes Government must interfere to help the people or the addicted person because this can even effect the economy,imagine too much addict in gambling?they are burden to the community and their family for sure.

i Support government in this kind of action and hoping each government will do the same for the goodness of their own people.

We can view this as a symptom of something else, I think, something in the mind is corrupting the mental faculties of these gamblers, losing their control over their urge to gamble and their willingness to give all they have to win and make big amounts of money. This needs to be dealt with the likes of anxiety and depression and addiction. In my opinion, this is a mental sickness and this needs mental specialists and psychologists to handle these people. Government should fund specialized sectors of the medical establishment that concentrates in combating addiction and depression.

peter0425

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Quote from: Saisher on August 23, 2020, 06:57:19 PM

Quote from: FontSeli on August 23, 2020, 06:20:48 PM

I very much doubt that people will even want to give out information about themselves that they actually play gambling games in online casinos. In society, as a rule, there is a bias towards people who play in casinos. Therefore, in some cases, even the fact that someone will know about your online casino games will be enough for a person to stop playing in an online casino.

Government or any public or private organization should not intervene or interrupt in any activity that people are doing that may have a bad impression in the public, the general society has a bad impression on gamblers and this will discriminate them, they can just pose serious warnings but it's on the person to imposed it to himself not the government.

But sometimes Government must interfere to help the people or the addicted person because this can even effect the economy,imagine too much addict in gambling?they are burden to the community and their family for sure.

i Support government in this kind of action and hoping each government will do the same for the goodness of their own people.

freedomgo

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Quote from: Betwrong on August 25, 2020, 03:02:00 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: johhnyUA on August 24, 2020, 03:04:58 PM

Of course that will be no good for casino owners, because more regulations - more headache for any casino. But in that case, this is useful regulations, because every casino is highly interested to take everything from you to the last penny. And is something awful will happen later, this will be out of the casino (like one episode on my mind, when my neighbor killed his wife because of gambling addiction). So now it will be much harder for idiots to lose everything and for casino to take everything from idiots.

The casino will think about the regulations, and they will not make strict regulations for their members if that is not necessary. But if something worst happens in their casino and that is not on their regulations list, they can add new regulations so the members will follow that new rule. The casino will always have a way to take everything from the idiots who don't realize that because the casino will tempt them to play gambling more and more.

I think that casinos rarely, if ever, impose regulations of their own on customers. Gambling sites just have to comply with the regulations made by governments of the territories where they operate. I disagree with you, and I agree with @johhnyUA, only to be more polite I would replace the word "idiots" with "gambling addicts".

Casinos are just imposing at least the minimum law required by the government for them to implement, they would be kind to their gamblers because all they want is to give gamblers some comfort so they can gain the trust and they will earn a loyal gamblers.

Quote from: Betwrong on August 25, 2020, 03:02:00 AM

Also, it is a common misconception that casino wants to take all your money. What casino really wants is to have a lot of players and earn from the house edge. It doesn't care about whether a particular player winning or losing.

That's the common line of the losers, they can't accept that casinos are winning and they are losing.
With house edge, they can win most of the time, but they'll never win all the time, but if you are gambling with a house edge, it's expected that you'll lose in the long run as you don't have the edge, it's pretty simple, so I hope they'll understand that before gambling.

Betwrong

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: johhnyUA on August 24, 2020, 03:04:58 PM

Of course that will be no good for casino owners, because more regulations - more headache for any casino. But in that case, this is useful regulations, because every casino is highly interested to take everything from you to the last penny. And is something awful will happen later, this will be out of the casino (like one episode on my mind, when my neighbor killed his wife because of gambling addiction). So now it will be much harder for idiots to lose everything and for casino to take everything from idiots.

The casino will think about the regulations, and they will not make strict regulations for their members if that is not necessary. But if something worst happens in their casino and that is not on their regulations list, they can add new regulations so the members will follow that new rule. The casino will always have a way to take everything from the idiots who don't realize that because the casino will tempt them to play gambling more and more.

I think that casinos rarely, if ever, impose regulations of their own on customers. Gambling sites just have to comply with the regulations made by governments of the territories where they operate. I disagree with you, and I agree with @johhnyUA, only to be more polite I would replace the word "idiots" with "gambling addicts".

Also, it is a common misconception that casino wants to take all your money. What casino really wants is to have a lot of players and earn from the house edge. It doesn't care about whether a particular player winning or losing.

Debonaire217

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Quote from: ?? on ??

The casino will think about the regulations, and they will not make strict regulations for their members if that is not necessary. But if something worst happens in their casino and that is not on their regulations list, they can add new regulations so the members will follow that new rule. The casino will always have a way to take everything from the idiots who don't realize that because the casino will tempt them to play gambling more and more.

Most of the time, if the player is having huge funds and is a gambler by heart they offer something unique that makes the gambler feel that they have good priveleges, but it turns out that they sometimes lose to the casino, it's hard to accept but it is near to the terms: "luring the gambler for house's good".

On the other hand, I found some casinos that really cares for the players in terms of donating to the charities and having cashback when players could have benefits depending on how often they play.

johhnyUA

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: johhnyUA on August 21, 2020, 04:48:19 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Even if the government mailing the gamblers about their laws or bills or fine, the gamblers will not care because they don't even read that mails. They will still play gambling, but if one of their family members care about them, they will remind the gamblers to stop for a while from gambling. It is hard if the addicted person to gambling knows if he is addicted or not, it needs other people to help them realize and see the fact. If we need to prove that we are fine with the loss, maybe that will embarrass them, so it needs other people that can show them that gambling is not good for that gambler.

So this is the reason why government should act directly on casino owners

If casino will ban you for some time after some amount you've lost, you'll get calm and have time to do some useful activities. The amount of people which is highly addicted (meaning they will register new accounts through VPN or something like this) is much less than full amount of people who is in danger zone.

So, at least one time, government do their job right.

If the government acts directly on casino owners, I think it will not be good for them. Maybe the government can use another approach for the casino owner, and maybe they will invite them to discuss that. I think the gambler can avoid a ban from the casino by playing honestly, and not using VPN to register new accounts because if that is their rule, the casino will not tolerate it. Both government and the casino will do their jobs, and the gambler needs to have a responsibility for themselves.

Of course that will be no good for casino owners, because more regulations - more headache for any casino. But in that case, this is useful regulations, because every casino is highly interested to take everything from you to the last penny. And is something awful will happen later, this will be out of the casino (like one episode on my mind, when my neighbor killed his wife because of gambling addiction). So now it will be much harder for idiots to lose everything and for casino to take everything from idiots.

Saisher

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Quote from: FontSeli on August 23, 2020, 06:20:48 PM

I very much doubt that people will even want to give out information about themselves that they actually play gambling games in online casinos. In society, as a rule, there is a bias towards people who play in casinos. Therefore, in some cases, even the fact that someone will know about your online casino games will be enough for a person to stop playing in an online casino.

Government or any public or private organization should not intervene or interrupt in any activity that people are doing that may have a bad impression in the public, the general society has a bad impression on gamblers and this will discriminate them, they can just pose serious warnings but it's on the person to imposed it to himself not the government.

FontSeli

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Quote from: FlightyPouch on August 23, 2020, 05:34:18 PM

Quote from: FontSeli on August 23, 2020, 05:25:28 PM

...most likely ordinary players who do not have problems with gambling addiction will suffer.

I agree, especially those people that can take those losses ten or even maybe a hundred times the set cap by this regulation. I don't think they will be willing to face an ombudsman just to prove that they can take a loss since that might affect their persona negatively knowing that they are gambling like that and in that huge amount.

I very much doubt that people will even want to give out information about themselves that they actually play gambling games in online casinos. In society, as a rule, there is a bias towards people who play in casinos. Therefore, in some cases, even the fact that someone will know about your online casino games will be enough for a person to stop playing in an online casino.

Topic: You have to prove that you can take the loss - page 4. (Read 1632 times)