Topic: you're making bitcoin complicated - page 3. (Read 1235 times)

Experienced users recommend hardware wallets precisely because of the fact it is a safest option for a newbie. It is true that they are not free, but security they provide worth to pay for. And if you have no money to buy even cheapest one, what were you going to put into bitcoin wallet anyway? Listen to experienced usets, especially on this forum, because they want bitcoin to be adopted and they like to teach newcommers because of this. If every newbie were suggested to use shitty web wallet to store "their" money, then bitcoin wouldn't have a chance to become adopted among inexperienced users.  In such case, newbies would lost everything and go away forever. It would be too complicated, because every your step would lead to being scammed by dishonest owners of "your" keys.


What a stupid question as if bitcoin is a magic money of Internet that can be earned in magical ways. First, you have to learn what bitcoin is, why it is considered sound money, why it is better than current financial chaos. By the time you realize that bitcoin is money, you will have already understood that bitcoin can be earned exactly the same way as fiat. If you don't know how to earn money in general, that is another question.


If you don't value your privacy, your KYC documents will be sold on darknet and you will be scammed another way. Maybe you have nothing to hide, which is very hard to believe in, but don't sacrifice your identity, wellbeing and life because of this. Protect your rights, listen to advice and make your own decisions based on your own experience and other's mistakes.

Admittedly some old members here make Bitcoin look complicated, but I'm sure they did without bad intentions or make it difficult
for the newbie. They give complicated answers, because they really want to give their best. But some newbies must find it difficult
to understand and consider Bitcoin complicated. Indeed, newbies should start learning from something light.

Simple question deserves simple answer but many people here are making it too difficult for them to understand ,They dont even know that Newbie wanted to know how can this be use and what is the process.
Not because you are experienced you need to talk about the deep knowledge why not try to simplify ?this is what they need to hear.
i totally agree on this mate,because the more we talk the more complicated becomes the issue.

I understand the sentiments that a newbie must have to learn and that is why they keep asking to know more. Of course, each member has different opinions and they also rely base on their experience which is better than telling lies. And these individuals will certainly be saying this is the best, this is right, and this must have to used. But newbies also asking how about this one? why not? What will happen? It was hard when you are directing to the right path but someone asking also different ways.

The reason why it complicates newbie's mind is that they are not satisfied with the right things instead of being curious to know on the dark side that all not suggesting it. They are only making themselves being complicated, not those people who are helping them.

Well, I agree, we could just teach them the easiest things to learn or to remember but if you really wanted to take care of your bitcoins, secure it, understand some things that you might be confused with, that complication will really hit those people and if they are willing to learn they can, if they don't that is just fine, it on them.

Bitcoin is not anonymous and juts because you want to remain anonymous doesn't mean you have anything to hide or want to do anything bad. For example, many writers write under a pseudo name.
Never use an online wallet. You need to have the private key kept locally on your device. Perhaps you could recommend celium on android? Maybe exodus on pc? There is also an app that allows your phone to act as a hardware wall and it works with MEW. It's very cool.

You just made it clear, I hope that most of the old guys here gets to understand this and stop giving information that can be misleading at times. Starting with that number one question, I always tell newbies that every wallet has their pros and cons, you don’t just say that a particular one is the most secure, they just have to be made to be aware of the risks involved.

I have been making use of mobile wallets for years now and I have never had any problem with them, mobile wallets like Blockchain, Xapo, Coinbase, and BitPay, and they all work perfectly and are also free to make use of, so why would you be telling someone to go for a hardware when it’s clear that most of them don’t have any money or they are not ready to spend on anything yet?

I agree to the OP that mostly Bitcoin users are really making Bitcoin itself to be complicated which is making it too hard for a newbie to digest the information that would lead him to better understanding of what Bitcoin really is. The case is that whenever a newbie tend to ask specific answers about a certain inquiry he wanted to know, other Bitcoin users are making use of their experience which is already too broad to be easily understood by a newbie which certainly do not have any experience on the field of knowing and working with Bitcoin.

I think what it could possibly help to lessen the complications on better understanding or letting the newbie know about Bitcoin is just to directly answer the inquiry in a simple manner and let him ask a little bit more which he is finding himself widening the capacity of his understanding to process the simple to complex ideas he must know about Bitcoin. Just start it from simple phase of explaining then let him explore the complexity once he fully digest the sequence of information he must know which can be gained by self experience working with Bitcoin.

I think this is more precise to tell to a newbie or newcomers for making bitcoin not so complicated when someone would asked you about it. Especially about how newbies would earn bitcoin, instead of telling them they can earn bitcoins by joining signature campaigns because not all of them are capable and dedicated to engage and to rank up in this forum; that is why it is much better to say they can earn bitcoins just like how they can earn from fiat.

I get the point, but the example is quite bad.
1. It's true that hardware wallet often recommended, but people usually also recommend other wallet that compromise between security and ease of use such as Electrum and Blue Wallet.
2. I don't see many people recommend signature campaign to newbie these days, since newbie can't join one and it's easier to say that you could earn Bitcoin just like you earn fiat.
3. Micro-task only wasting your time
4. Anonymity isn't bad thing, even if you think you don't need anonymity. Additionally, Bitcoin isn't anonymous, but only pseudonymous.

this is my version.

If a newbie asks what is a good wallet to use?
all wallet is good as long it gives you full access. (private key, etc.)
start with a web wallet, it is free to use.

If a newbie asks how to earn bitcoin?
buy with fiat money, mining with a powerful computer, accept bitcoin as payment for your service/product, or get it for free by doing microtasks.

If a newbie asks what good thing about bitcoin? anonymity?
if you have a concern with privacy, anonymity might be the answer for you.
besides that, bitcoin offers you a p2p payment system. just a sender and a recipient.
no middleman.

I understand what is the concern that exists in op, that also happened to me when I was new to crypto. there will always be misperceptions asked by the opinions expressed. because usually those who help provide answers only globally about what really happened but do not trace who asked whether the answer was appropriate and appropriate for those who asked.

let's work together and can help what is a concern from you and maybe as a beginner who also needs a lot of relevant explanation. It takes patience from all those who do have a good account to be able to help each other and explain it as best as possible without any misunderstanding.

The words of yours are undoubtedly fits properly.Besides,The talk members,sr members(Platform seniours)should give them simple solution to adjust them  comfortably.But if the question is which one is the best?Then people must recommend the best one.I agree,it's a little bit complicated but one should  have the proper interest in this section if he/she really wants to do something here.

Yeah, there are basic things that newbies can understand and I have also watched informative videos before and it helps a lot and I also think that it's great for newbies. But at some point, they will think bitcoin as something complicated because the more you dig for information, the deeper it gets. So for me, complicated and deep information is part of it when you're really interested in bitcoin and want to learn more. I mean, you can't just learn the simplest information and stop there.

I'm pretty sure no one has meant for their advice in the topic so far to come across as rude.

My take regarding web-wallets, the best way to think of it is in terms of compromise.  If you only want convenience and you're willing to rely on third parties, the trade off is likely going to be the control and security you would otherwise have.  Maybe convenience is all that you're concerned with.  So if you're comfortable handing over possession of your funds to a person or company on the internet, in effect a stranger you're never likely to meet, that's your call.  It would, however, be careless of us not to mention the inherent dangers of that.  We've seen examples of people losing their money doing that.  But, in fairness, we've also seen people lose funds by not correctly securing a wallet they control themselves.  There's potential risk either way.  But at least if it's a wallet you control, you can take responsibility for it.

As for faucets, there was a time in the past where it was worth doing those, but I suspect you're a few years too late now.  I recall when you could get 2000 or even sometimes 5000 satoshi each hour from each different faucet, but those days are long gone and you'd only get a tiny fraction of that nowadays.  In terms of effort versus reward, they're simply not worth your time.  There are definitely better ways to earn money, but they almost certainly involve your time, effort, skill, resourcefulness, entrepreneurial instincts or a combination of those things.  In effect, you need to figure out what you're good at and then find a way to monetise it.  You might not make a lot of money, but I can't see how you'd make less than you would from faucets now.

Well, I've re-read most of the thread, and i haven't seen real rudeness to be honest. People (myself included) do get a little bit annoyed when people start giving their "opinions" on things that are basically facts. It's even worse when you see people with a certain level of authority (Rank) making unjust claims and potentially lead newbies to bad decisions.

Basically, if i'd ask you witch color is nicer and you say you like "blue" the best, it would be rude of me if i started to criticize you because i personally think "yellow" is a better color.
But if we were discussing the shape of the earth, and person A says: "it's perfectly round", person B says "it's allmost perfectly round, but there are some mountains and underwater trenches and person C says: "the earth is flat", I think it's perfectly fine to tell person C he is wrong and he should keep his "opinion" to himself... If nobody would tell person C he is wrong, and he needs to go away, we end up with a flat earth movement...

If i'd enter a forum for small kids, gain some reputation, and start making claims like: "it's perfectly fine to run with scissors, please take candy from a strange man and follow him to his van, eat glue and you'll grow up faster,..." I hope other reputed members would step in and tell the kids that: "no, it's not ok to run with scissors", "never talk to strangers", "don't eat glue".
Would it be rude of them? Sure, but in the meantime they do it to protect the kids... If nobody would step up and tell them I'm spreading false info, who knows, maybe they would hurt themselfs.

Same here... IF you push newbies towards claiming from faucets and holding their "earnings" in a web wallet, and don't worry because they're 100% anonymous if they do so... A big portion of them will get hurt sooner or later.

• they'll spend days claiming from faucets earning nothing, and get scammed by a large portion of the faucet owners in the meantime
• they'll lose access to their blockchain account
• they'll fall victim to phising
• blockchain will eventually close shop, and they'll lose their funds
• they'll be victims of malware
• they'll get de-anonimised and beccome victims of a $ wrench attack

So, you might consider people rude for speaking up, but they're basically protecting those newbies you hold so dear... Maybe not in the nicest way, but i'd rather have someone rude that protects me, than someone super-nice that sets me up to get scammed in the long-run .

Obviously, some old users are making bitcoin complicated  to newbie, thinking bitcoin is easy to understand.
While some that have interest to join the discussion,are afraid because, the way some old user  are teaching new ones wrongly,thinking they're teaching them rightly.

Rudeness is toxic for the community so some of you stop being mean 
We have different knowledge, comprehension, understanding, and point of view let not only think of ourself
I'm here to learn more and to know your opinion
i want to know how to make bitcoin as simplest as possible at the same time safe
some of you have some good point I will keep that in mind
let us have a healthy discussion

I usually try to stay away from most threads like this one... I mean, everything that needed to be said WAS said...
However, when scanning trough the 3 pages, i also saw people giving horrible advice (sure, most of the time they were contradicted, but still...). On multiple occasions i was tempted to start contradicting several posts made by several members. Instead, i opted to give my view on the situation...

It doesn't matter if you go to an automobile forum, a forum dedicated to antique collectors or a technology forum dedicated to bitcoin... You'll always have newbies asking questions, you'll always have people giving really bad advice, you'll have people that are so techology-focussed and (let's be honest) a little bit elitist that'll give good (but very complicated) advice and you'll have relatively knowledgeable people that try to give newbie-focussed advice.
Bitcointalk is no exception... Does that mean this is bad? Not per sé, it's just human nature. Some people are friendly, some are asshats, some are a bit snobby...

It looks to me like you've never used a hardware wallet before... I mean, my first hardware wallet was a ledger HW.1. This was just a piece of plastic with a chip on it, it had no screen or nothing, but if you read leger's documentation even a newbie could easily use it. And it's not like that documentation was in the form of a book, it was just a couple of pages you needed to get trough.
Since then, the most popular wallet vendors (ledger and trezor) have made great strides towards user-friendlyness. It's gotten to the point i usually use electrum together with my hardware wallet since their official gui's have become so newbie-friendly some of the wallet features i use are no longer supported (coin controll for example, but to be honest, they did not remove that feature, it was just never there to begin with... To keep things "newbie-friendly" from the start).
Sure, they're not free, but come on, a trezor one costs 59€. If you're serious about investing in crypto, that shouldn't be to much.

But even if it is to much (to expensive that is), pointing newbies towards ANY web wallet is just setting them up for dissapointment later on. I think it's better to point them to a newbie-friendly,desktop desktop wallet. Sure, there'll be a learning curve, but hey, they have to learn some day. If you point newbies towards (unsafe) webwallets, you'll end up with senior members blurting out things like "blockchain's wallet is safe... I've used it for years and didn't get scammed"... Offcourse, they don't get scammed untill the point where they DO get scammed. Really... Browse the forum... Just count the number of threads where users have lost funds due to web wallets.
Sure, desktop wallets can have flaws aswell, but atleast the power and controll was in YOUR hands, not in the hands of some unknown entity you just decided to trust.

By the way, it's also a misconception that a hardware wallet is the safest wallet... I mean, you could go for an airgapped non-HD wallet generated by the latest version of bitcoin core? Or maybe a properly generated paper wallet?
Even a hardware wallet sometimes has attack vectors... Usually they do require physical access to the device itself, and usually a patch is found for those attack vectors. And one weak spot is the recovery seed (unless you used an extra passphrase you haven't written down).

yeah, but no... Do you really think a newbie will stick around after they've spend a whole week, 8 hours a day to make barely enough sat's to reach the minimum withdrawal limit, and even risk getting scammed by the faucet operator?
If a newbie asks how to get their hands on btc, my answer usually goes to the direction of telling them to either sell their goods/services for bitcoin, or (if they don't have any marketable goods/online skills that are in demand in the bitcoin community) get an IRL job and convert part of their wage into BTC. I mean, in most developed countries you'll make $10/hour just by flipping burgers... That's a hell of a lot more than you'll ever make with those faucets or PTC thingies...

I've got some bad news for you... Bitcoin is pseudo-anonymous, not anonymous... It's never been anonymous, it wasn't made for complete anonimity.

Ah, and i see you've drawn Joseph Goebbels's privacy argument in the mix... Always a nice toutch...
source (unconfirmed, but commonly accepted): https://metro.co.uk/2015/11/05/a-tory-mp-might-have-quoted-goebbels-in-defence-of-the-governments-surveillance-bill-5481457/

If you want anonimity, switch to a high-anonimity coin, but even then you'd have to be carefull about what you do...

What I'm most interested in is why you, as the author, used the pronoun "you" and not "we". So you don't identify with the crypto community? Or are everyone around you fools, but you are the only smart one? Or why?

Great idea. I suggest you start with yourself. How do you suggest implementing this in the best way?