Topic: ★ ZEIT ★ [COMMUNITY & KNIGHTS] [ULTRA LOW INFLATION] [MICRO-PAYMENTS] - page 191. (Read 1009352 times)

Liquidity is also an issue for buyers as well. If I can spike the price 70% just using a 2 BTC investment, and I see that there's no real liquidity on the ask side............well any smart investor would think twice before buying in to any significant degree.

Similarly, low liquidity in every market is a problem for our coin in general, for the reason that it makes our coin vulnerable to pump-and-dump. We don't want it to be easy to "pump" the price of Zeitcoin any more than we want it to be easy to "dump" those same coins. After all, maybe the "dumpers" are people who accepted the coin as payment, and now they need to liquidate it for LTC and from LTC to fiat currency just to be able to pay bills. If we as knights are not rich enough to absorb 5 Billion zeitcoins worth of volume at 10 satoshi (500 BTC), then 10 satoshi is clearly too high.

Low liquidity, both on the ask and the bid side, is bad for us if we don't want to be subject to pump and dump. It is better in the longer term to have high volume and high liquidity in a narrow price range, then low liquidity and volume in a wide price range (even if that price range is higher than the narrow one). The higher the volume and liquidity, the more protected Zeitcoin will be against these price swings.

  do be careful with hydroxy ....

Hi all

I'm (mentally) knackered after the 1st 2 days of a 2-week college training course but wanted to share a snippet with y'all....

Today I used solar power to activate a fuel cell to produce hydrogen & oxygen from (distilled) water, then used that gas to produce elec-trickery to power a motor.

Am I already getting ideas for the future of Zeitcoin?

You betcha asses!

Stay tuned

Thanks for the link, I've added it to the post. 

  hey if you think your reps can master a 2 hour attention span, send them this link ... 

                              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUNGFZDO8mM

   --good ref neway ...

Anyone besides me live in North Carolina?  If so, please read and contact your elected officals: http://www.digitalcurrencyalliance.com/regulation/nc-bitcoin-digital-currency-bill-moves-forward-senators-perplexed/

Yep. Like I said it was quick math, using numbers from cryptoID's inflation chart and I welcome anyone to double check it, but you can see that inflation is quite low since the conclusion of PoW. When I have more time I'd like to double check it myself and also see what effect the subsidy reduction has had on the rate of inflation. I don't see how it can be all that far off as I vaguely recall seeing total money supply around 27b back then and it's still under 32b over a year later. With compounding it should be much higher if significant numbers were being staked. This information is also consistent with the low staking numbers cryptoID shows at any given time(7.2% right  at this time). The bottom line is...unless something changes overhead supply will be growing far slower than expected.

Hmm, so according to your math we are only seeing ~half of the actual interest rate.
Which means %15 may only be between actually 7% or 10 % .
And 5% will probably also be lower.

Makes sense. 

 

Interesting plan kiklo, but I don't think it will make much of a difference. Quick back of the napkin math puts inflation at right around 16.5% since Zeit went full PoS 431 days ago. That comes out to .038% per day or 13.97% per year at the pace we've been on and that should be coming down with the drop from 25% to 20%, though I haven't confirmed that. Fact is a lot of people just park their coins on exchanges and don't bother with staking at all. Two of the largest 10 wallet balances haven't changed in one year according to cryptoID's wallet guesstimates...that's 2.5b coins not staking right there and a year ago that was roughly 9% of the supply.

I personally think people are nuts to park significant quantities of any coin(particularly PoS coins) on exchanges given all the hacks and thefts that have occurred, but it seems some people never learn. Anyway the people that don't think 23-28% compound interest is worth their time or effort are making everyone else's ZeitCoin stakes more valuable and those people(myself included) are likely to be the people that actually care about the success of this crypto...so THANK YOU SLACKERS!

I don't think we should change anything fundamental about the plan just because someone manages to make a bot to collar the price on what is quite frankly the worst run exchange I've ever seen. Though annoying, the price rigging will only last until they run out of coins and I'm betting our determination is >>> theirs. I think we should remain consistent and stick to the plan. I think we should just make the bot sell as cheap as possible on craptsy and drain the place of liquidity at every opportunity...then move that liquidity to a better run exchange that has given us a BTC pairing and not just a bunch of excuses.

We can make those waves have less punch.
Normally this idea gets shot down, but here it is.
Our Interest Rate drops down to 15% in ~ 7 months, and ~ year later down to the final 5% rate.
What if we change it so in ~7 months , at the next rate change drop it to the final 5% rate for good.
(Basically skip the 15% year)

Edit: this idea has been scrapped after a little schooling from Solarion.  

 

  

   aye it's a skinny market with occasional big waves. danger! will robinson! danger! but this is the beginning of things crypo, what else should one expect? if you believe in zeit, (and why shouldn't you - we have a hardworking & knowledgeable team here) what - me? worry?  

Liquidity is more of a concern to sellers than buyers. Buyers will naturally migrate to the market with the lowest price at the moment they wish to buy...as ever the lowest price is at craptsy. Currently Zeit is 28% cheaper at craptsy than at either of the BTC markets. The lowest price is ALWAYS at craptsy, because that market is being held down by a bot. Coincidentally or not so coincidentally that's also the market that sets the price of ZeitCoin and the other markets follow. The only good thing about the fake price action at craptsy is that the spreads are artificially kept low.

Craptsy is again malfunctioning btw, there's a bid and ask posted at the same price point. Their software has done this regularly for months...if not years. It's really a very poorly run exchange. 

The real reason why prices vary so much is because liquidity for Zeit is LOW on all markets. It wouldn't take much to crash the markets. 10M zeit is all it takes to clear out the cryptopia market on the bid side. It is only possible for the price to drop from 440 to 142 BECAUSE there are so few buyers on the bid side. A real market shouldn't gyrate +/- 20% percent just on the sale of 15 Million Zeit (esp when we have over 30 BILLION coins floating around).

With such low liquidity on the markets that we ARE on, is it any wonder that prices went the way it did? You couldn't buy a BUDGET LAPTOP with Zeit without the store crashing the prices 60% because they need to get LTC and then convert that LTC to cash to buy more wholesale laptops in fiat. If all it takes is 2 BTC worth of volume to crash prices, then I'm sorry, but we need more liquidity. Big question is, who's willing to provide it? And at what sustainable prices?

And then there's the issue that we're going to encounter major resistance from 10 to 17 satoshi level, which was our previous high from the mintpal days.

And again, look at other coins. ALL other coins besides BTC suffered from LTC dump, not just Zeitcoin. We just moved with the market.

No,
Just coins that use PoS instead of PoW.
PoW coins do not give control to the people.
Reason being all PoW coins final home will be with Corporate or Government miners, as individuals will not be able to keep up in the ASICS arms race.

And in regards to PoS, other factors required to be global are size, there has to be enough quantity to be worldwide, otherwise they will be too rare to meet the global needs. Other Factors are Speed, & Network security, and an Interest Rate that can compete against stocks,  Zeit has that. Main thing is the ZeitKnights, a growing group of individuals that will protect Zeit in its early years. Do some other PoS coins meet some of these requirements, sure. But Zeit is the only one that meets all of them.  

 

This is true, but how many of the hundreds of alt coins have come and gone in the little over 1 year that Zeit has been around? Countless. Zeit is proving to be a force to reckon with, so that may have investors in other coins a little worried.

You described every cryptocurrency in existence here

Ok, this will get some tinfoil hats pics, but here goes.

You own a business where you are basically controlling a large part of the money supply.
A new business opens up down the street with a new technology that is faster , more convenient, even allowing money to be transferred virtually at very cheap rates, and placing control of the monetary system into the hands of the people, removing your control.

The Tech is already out there, so you can't just buy them out and own it completely, your only real option is to try and discredit them , by causing massive fluctuations in their price, and then pointing at them and saying look how unstable they are, they are not suitable to conduct business. Now you know this is a complete fabrication but if you can stop them early enough , the public mindset will stop or hinder their growth , this allows you to keep control of the money supply and keep your advantage while destroying this new business model.

A good Example is
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who_Killed_the_Electric_Car%3F
We could have had electric cars back in the 90s, but the oil industry zapped them ~25 years ago to maintain their control of their market and still hinder to this day causing them to be unaffordable for most.
And think on this , why don't the top of electric cars have solar panel integrated into the frame panels, helping recharge the batteries, when the sun is shinning.

 

Thanks Solarion!!! Your work is excellent!!! I will strengthen your price support for creating super containment wall that prevents unjustified and disproportionate crashes!  

I think there's a bit of paranoia here. Why would anyone want to destroy zeitcoin? You can't even do that anyway. At best you can temporarily lower its price and that's it. Just relax and enjoy the cheap prices

Kiklo, you have a gift of words, my friend. You explained that well. So I say, you big money holders do your thing and let's keep enjoying our coin and community! Viva la Zeit!