Topic: ★ ZEIT ★ [COMMUNITY & KNIGHTS] [ULTRA LOW INFLATION] [MICRO-PAYMENTS] - page 305. (Read 1009280 times)

No offense, but you are swaying the percentages to try and make your point.
By dropping down to .1% , there is an old saying ,there are Lies, Worst Lies , & then worst of all Statistics. By focusing on narrow ranges , you can make statistics say anything you want.
For example everyone has breathe in oxygen, and after 100 years or so all of those people have died.
So the statistical conclusion is that 100% of people breathing oxygen will die, and therefore Oxygen is bad for you.
When we all know without oxygen we will not last over 10 minutes.
See how narrow range statistics can cause errors in judgement.

Back to your point on distribution , the ZeitKnights solution is the faucets and creating a virtual / physical economy which will cause a better distribution than what it is now.

But if you want a quick fix , you can go in and buy up as much as you want , and immediately give it out to other people , until you get the percentages where you are most happy.
Although people will be a lot more interested in receiving & spending zeit after the price has gotten higher.

This is still a very new creation, don't expect it to satisfy every ideal , yet?
But as time goes on , you will see we are molding it into the tool it needs to be for it to change the world for the better.

 

FYI:
We always enjoy Good Debates in the Zeit Forum.

FYI2:
Before we get Zeitcoin to (My personal prediction) of $1 , you will see a major swing in the distribution of those large address ,as they begin to spend zeitcoins on items & services they desire, which will increase distribution. Plus even if a ZeitKnight did not spend any zeitcoins for anything else, they still will drain off 10% yearly to flow out to others, contrast that with US Corporations making Billions and not only not paying in any taxes but receiving massive refunds, which in the end is stolen from the people.
The Current System is designed to keep them in power and keep the people to poor to do anything about it. Zeitcoin Can & Will Change That System to a Resource Based, that will always be fair, and if anyone was dumb enough to think they could hoard all of the zeitcoins, then the people of the world can start a Zeitcoin 2.0 , because for any resource to have value, there has to be circulation among the people.
Stop that circulation and you kill that economy, because the rich forget , if the poor can't afford their products , then eventually the poor will use something else for money and the rich will lose it all.

 

Do please buy back in. It would only help to spread the wealth our more equally!

ZEIT together with his older brother BTC? This is great news .  

http://www.followthecoin.com/3-new-bitcoin-alternatives-watching/

You're looking at the addresses, not wallets, but it's not a huge difference, so let's say it's 10 people who own 1/3 of the currently ~30B ZEIT in circulation. From the same page, you can see that there are currently 8275 wallets with some ZEIT balance, so this means that 10/8275=0.0012=0.1% of all ZEIT is held by 5 to 10 people (or fewer).

Now, comparing with the USD, from random internet site #1 ( http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2011/10/forget-the-top-1-look-at-the-top-0-1/ ) we find that the top 0.1% of Americans earn 10% of all income, however egregiously unfair this may be, it's less unfair than Zeitcoin, where the top 0.1% will earn 33% (or more) of all income, since you will stake in proportion to the amount of ZEIT you own.

In terms of wealth distribution, from random internet site #2 ( http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/usappblog/2014/10/29/the-explosion-in-u-s-wealth-inequality-has-been-fuelled-by-stagnant-wages-increasing-debt-and-a-collapse-in-asset-values-for-the-middle-classes/ ):
Again, this appears to be a horrendously unjust situation that has gotten worse over the past 30 years, but again, this isn't quite as inequitable as the distribution of Zeitcoin currently (0.1% owning ~33% of all "money").

Anyway, thanks for the civil discussion. I appreciate the thoughtful responses. I am considering buying (back) into Zeit, I'd just like to determine what niche it fills, and what the plans are to fill that space.

I'd be curious to know if this figure differentiates the people from the corporations, and whether or not this includes derivatives or not. As far as I know, the actual value of derivatives FAR out-scales the world economy as it is currently understood. To the tune of 700 trillon (yes TRILLION) US dollars. And over 600 trillion of that is held by the top 5 US banks.....which are controlled only by a relatively TINY fraction of the world population.

When you take that into account, things suddenly start to look very different.

In any event, Zeitgeist's "solutions" can basically be summed up one phrase: Destruction of the market for things we need to survive by making access to those resources as abundant as possible through the use of today's cutting-edge technology. What do we need to survive and thrive?

Food
Water that is clear of impurities
Shelter
Clothing
Transportation
Health Care
Educational Training
Access to the world's information and communication networks (such as the internet, radio, phone and TV)
Energy to make the above things possible

The vast majority of our expenditures and resources go to these things. If people had an abundance of access to the things in the above categories (because technology makes it so abundant that it can't be sold), we would have very little need for money or work unless they wanted to acquire some luxuries.

A good example of a destroyed market that benefited humanity:

When Google introduced the first 1GB email service for FREE, destroying in one feel swoop the market for buying additional email space and the need for ever deleting emails again.

The goal is to achieve the same thing, except for basic necessities like food, water and HEALTHCARE.

Great info kiklo! And thanks for the update Bainbridge! Slowly but surely we are making a name for ourselves in the crypto world!

THE BTER VOTE CONTINUES
.
https://bter.com/voting#ZEIT

While we have been talking, Zeitcoin has
leapt into 45th position with 867 votes
                                  ... and rising!

https://chainz.cryptoid.info/zeit/#!rich
Current stats
32% at 10 address
36.9% at 100 address
26.8% at 1000 address
4.3% for the rest

In the US
The Wealthiest 20% Own 72% of the money ; The Poorest 20% Only 3%
http://www.forbes.com/sites/robertlenzner/2013/04/19/the-growing-disparity-in-wealth-made-the-great-recession-worse-and-the-recovery-weaker-than-ever-before/

As you can see our current Zeit 10 wallets rich list max out at 32%,
only 20% of US Rich own 72% of US Dollars. 72% is way higher than 32%.
We are already more fair than they are by huge numbers.

Points on equitable distribution , we are keeping a faucet active , which we will fund every single month to keep a value of 1 million zeitcoins to be given away freely at no charge.
If a Person wants to increase their personal supply , they can receive 100 zeitcoins every 12 hours at no cost, and then let it stake monthly to increase their percentage even more.
Or if a person has the resources they can buy up a large amount of zeitcoins at a very low price (for the moment).

The ZeitKnights will be using 10% of their monthly stakes to spread zeitcoin to the people thru different avenues in the future, including gaming & charity,  but the faucets will be there forever to help ensure distribution. If you want to start increasing your numbers for free go to
http://www.multifaucet.tk/index.php?faucet=ZEIT

 

FYI:
Will be adding a 2nd faucet next year by March.

Thanks for the clarification of where you are coming from, ... which is welcome!  
Apparently yes, there is a connection with The Zeitgeist Movement, albeit tentative. And Zeitcoin was based on the Zeitgeist ethos. These articles might help in understanding this. They were dated at the same time as the release of Zeitcoin:

http://www.followthecoin.com/interview-zeitcoin-team/

http://altcoinauthority.com/2014/03/zeitcoin-movement/

http://bitbillions.net/2014/02/17/alt-currencies-introducing-zeitcoin/

https://altcoinworld.wordpress.com/

and this where Zeitcoin was mentioned along with Darkcoin as two of the three new Bitcoin alternatives to watch!

http://www.followthecoin.com/3-new-bitcoin-alternatives-watching/

Your other observations are noted and are food for thought.

I understand your point. I think that the major problem we have at this point in time is that not enough people know about or are interested in Zeitcoin. There are probably a lot of people more interested in making a few quick bucks off of pump and dump scams to even notice that Zeit has been around for closing in on a year now and is a legitimate coin that has great long-term potential. But of course, greed is the name of the game in crypto.

Still, as the word gets out and we get the notice and recognition that we deserve, then more people will be able to get a piece of the pie. And Zeit holders, unlike BTC holders, would be more willing to open up our bags to add more Zeit to the exchanges in order to maintain liquidity for the sake of keeping Zeit going as opposed to making huge profits.

I'm glad that you are raising these questions so that we will have an opportunity to address them in this open forum. Hopefully your interest will be piqued and you will stay around for a good long while.

It's just a fact. Look at the block explorer, there's about five wallets that control 33% of coins in existence. It makes the US$ or even bitcoin look like a veritable communist utopia. It may have the potential for an equitable distribution due to the currently relatively low price, but at the moment I'd have to see inequitable is an apt descriptor.

Ok, as someone who has been involved in this coin since the beginning, I will give you my take on it. One of the main tenants of TZM is a move away from a money based economy and more toward a resource based economy. In order for that to happen, fiat currency would have to be completely eliminated as it offers unfair advantages to those who possess the majority of it over those who possess very little of it. Zeitcoin was intended to be a stepping stone in that elimination of fiat currency, as the original dev understood that fiat would not be going anywhere anytime soon.

Zeitcoin, as with most other cryptocurrency, is more fairly available to the masses than fiat is. Anyone with a computer can download a wallet, get an account at a pool that hosts mining for whatever coin you are interested in, and set about "creating" their own share of the available supply. With fiat, this isn't possible as only the central banks, or governments of a country that isn't controlled by the central banks, is in charge of creating the money. If you want your share then you have to work for it. With crypto, your PC does the work for you. And with Zeit, ever since the POW phase ended, there is even less work involved in minting new coins.

You say Zeitcoin is very inequitable in distribution? I disagree. With it's current low price, it is very equitable. One doesn't need to be a millionaire to buy a few million off an exchange. And like I mentioned previously, during it's POW phase, it was even more equitably distributable (although those mining with CPUs only did have a bit of a disadvantage). However, now with a big chunk of the supply sitting in exchanges, everyone can pick some up for the exact same price.

I won't speak to your concern about science because I am not privy to any information as to what plans there are for Zeit in the coming years. However, it would be a simple enough process of using Zeit in one way or another to fund scientific research.

I've never seen the movie, and don't fancy myself a zeitist in the least, I was just curious if there's any connection at all between zeitcoin and the zeitgeist movement in spirit or ethos or anything besides sharing a common first syllable. Apparently not...

First, my statement stands. The inference is that is my understanding is based on information that I have been given. I support it because it is my understanding, therefore it doesn't need supporting. I don't feel bound, straight-jacketed by any dogma.

Secondly, it is not for me to comment on any premise why Zeitcoin was created. I simply like it for a number of reasons (personal). Again my understanding is that some amongst us would like to move away from what was an open hand offered to The Zeitgeist Movement, and exist independently of any association with it, which we seem to do.

Thirdly, Zeitcoin, as I understand it, is a resource - a form of stored barter. Will you swap me an egg for an orange. No, two eggs for an orange. Suddenly we have a market ... I'm sure that you can extend what I'm  meaning from here. How many horses do you want for your wife? Pieces of gold? - you know those shiny bits I dug out of the earth yesterday? Those original hobo nickels that were sculptured out of ordinary nickels giving added value to a metal coin - how many dollars would you give for one of those? ...

And while we are at it I have watched the Zeitgeist Movie. It is not original. There were others before it. I've watched Peter Joseph many times in interview situations. The interviewers are normally well-disposed towards him, but some become increasingly despondent, and seemingly dis-illusioned by some of his answers. They are, on the whole, kind towards him, perhaps because they want to believe he has the solutions to the World's ills.

Here's my take on Peter Joseph in a nutshell: He starts off by saying that humanity is imperfect. He then talks of all the ills in the world. When interviewers try to narrow him down to solutions, he comes up with ideas that some would consider impractical, naive, unworkable - perhaps cock-eyed ... I'm struggling to find the right word here. When this unworkability is pointed out to him, he then says that he agrees by saying, of course it is impractical and that he pointed that out at the beginning - that humanity is imperfect.

Rather than discuss Peter Joseph with you I would much rather do it with him. Face to face. There are far too many people re-interpreting the thoughts of others into fossilised dogma.

You go and chase your tail if you want to, but I will leave you with this piece of advice Wittgenstein gave to one of 'disciples' who wanted to be a great philosopher like him and play around with words: Wittgenstein said don't bother. Get a job. Get married. Have Children.

In short, I don't have to support my understanding because it is my understanding. It stands. It was not the main point of my conjecture. It was an attempt to state something without assuming absolute authority. Do you understand? The main point of my post was simply to clear up a possible ambiguity i.e. to make it clear to others that The Zeitgeist Movement leadership is not the same as the Zeitcoin leadership.

If you want to quibble with that then my answer to you is humanity is imperfect. I am human. Language is imperfect. But I think I made my meaning clear.

Now if you will pardon me, I've just come in this evening with several unpacked bags of shopping and I'm ready for a cup of coffee and a bite to eat. Peace. Love. Harmony. Don't you be spending of any of that unclean money on food to eat. "Humanity is imperfect."

I'm not trying to troll (I guess it's just in my nature), but how exactly can you support this statement? Afaik the two main tenets of the Zeitgeist movement are to move away from a money based economy and to use scientific principles to administer the new resource based economy. From le wiki:


Zeitcoin is a currency (i.e. money) with a very inequitable distribution, and I can't see any way the folks in this thread are using science to administer their inequitable distribution of zeitcoins unto the masses. So, how exactly is/was Zeitcoin based on the Zeitgeist ethos? It seems the only thing they have in common are the first four letters of their monikers.

Let's make it clear to newcomers. You are referring here to the leadership of The Zietgeist Movement and not to the leadership of Zeitcoin. Whilst both may have similar aspirations, and I do understand that Zeitcoin was based on the Zeitgeist ethos, they are not connected to each other in an organisational sense. And not all here are ardent Zeitgeist Movement followers.

I might also add that Ray, Kiklo and others on the Zeitcoin Council are doing a marvelous job behind the scenes.

That's more a matter of marketing than anything else. It's a brand that has suffered some stagnation due to the leadership involved, and no one effective has been able to step up. If the "sheeple" don't follow, we have only ourselves to blame.

THE BTER VOTE CONTINUES
.
https://bter.com/voting#ZEIT

We're currently in 47th position and rising.
At this instant we have 775 votes.

Thanks for the info, dowloaded the file . Really starting to like this community, no bitchin, just helpin without talking me down for not knowing this, I like it

Offcourse the ZeitGeist movement is awesome, hope someday the sheeple will see it too...
[/quote]


In addition to the responses that you have already received:

I normally take a dim view of a wallet issue being flagged up by a new visitor advertising another coin in their tail end. It is usually the practice of a troll, trying to cast aspersions and at the same time touting 'that' other coin. However, you seem genuine so I will respond to your post on face value with as full an answer as I can manage within the time available to me and within the limits of this thread. I apologise to others in advance for taking up so much space, but I'm putting a comprehensive response here to answer you and anyone else who might post here with the same problem.

Like yourself, I like to download the whole blockchain from scratch. As with all the wallets I have downloaded from other altcoins, there can be occasional sticking points. In my experience these tend to occur towards the end of a long download. I've heard the 'bad peer from an old wallet' explanation for sticking points on other altcoin threads and I'm not totally convinced by it. The more times it is repeated, the more authority it seems to assume as the latest buzz phrase. Further, I have never experienced Zeitcoin sticking on block 1, as you haven't either, so I'm slightly puzzled why you mentioned it specifically. Each time that I have downloaded a Zeitcoin wallet it it has been off like a greyhound!

I normally just let wallets run on a continuous download and I find that any sticking points just sort themselves out with time. Occasionally, I might close and reopen a wallet on a sticking point and I find that can help speed up the process.

Based on my experience, one of Zeitcoin's strengths is in the stability and integrity of its wallet. If nobody on the network is reporting similar problems, then the problem could very well lie with your computer, or your Internet Service Provider, especially if your 'unlimited package' comes with a fair use policy. Downloading a wallet with a full sync can take a long time and your ISP could switch off and reset every now and then.

I think that it is bad manners to mention another coin on an altcoin thread, but I will on this occasion. HoboNickels is an altcoin that I like a lot and I have a substantial holding, just as I have with Zeitcoin. I like HoboNickel's innovation, just as I like the efforts of Ray and others on Zeitcoin to produce a wallet that is far better than most, particularly in its functionality and ease of POS minting.

Recently, I downloaded the HoboNickels new wallet - onto an old computer I might add. The download took three days. Tranz, the developer of HoboNickels, said that he had experienced the same on one of his computers, although on others the download was far quicker. I am about to put a HoboNickels wallet onto an i5 machine and I expect that to be the case also.

In response to a post on the HoboNickels thread, from someone who was experiencing HoboNickels syncing difficulties, I gave an answer which can be found here: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.9452896 but I will include it below it below for convenience because the same applies to Zeitcoin, and to other altcoinns too. I merely have substituted 'Zeitcoin' for 'HoboNickels' with some slight modifications:


Syncing problems are commonly reported throughout the pages of Bitcointalk. Good, solid advice is given out by experts in difficult circumstances, where lots of variables abound. Sometimes even experienced computer users can forget the basics, especially in the crypto-currency, experimental world.


For those who are experiencing difficulties in syncing, I have some suggestions that might be helpful. First, the Zeitcoin network seems to be OK on my computers. I have never experienced a problem with the Zeitcoin wallet syncing, or transacting. So if anyone is experiencing problems, it would seem that those problems could lie elsewhere.

Lots of factors can affect a wallet syncing. Resource hungry programs running in the background, ISPs resetting the connection etc. In the way-distant-past, I have experienced 'sticking points' with installing Quarkcoin (an early favourite coin) and Dogecoin. I found that eventually they synced if given time. I also found that syncing was improved by following some simple procedures.

My experience of Zeitcoin loading and syncing on my computers is that it is smooth; seamless, like a Rolls Royce engine. Of all the wallets that I have, Zeitcoin's has been the least problematic to sync and performs well. That's partly why I am here. Let me elaborate further!

In general, malware, anti-malware, anti-virus and firewall programs are not particularly well-disposed towards the syncing of altcoin wallets. The same goes for Windows automatically updating and other programs going on in the background. Different computers and Operating Systems can handle altcoin software differently. This may sound simple, but I assure you that by following some simple procedures, they can prove to be very effective when ordinary syncing is concerned!

Assuming that your hard drive isn't faulty, that unnecessary, background programs have been disabled, that your Operating System doesn't need defragging and is virus/trojan/malware free, here goes:

• If experiencing problems syncing a new wallet try switching off any anti-virus and auto-updating programs.
• Try Piriform's CCleaner (recommended) to get rid of resource hungry cookies, and pesky background 'noise' etc. http://www.piriform.com/ccleaner
  
• Sometimes a wallet restart, or one at a later time might help. Occassionally with some coins there might not even be a connection to connect to!
• If you still are experiencing trouble, focus some attention on your Internet Service Provision. It is interesting that some Internet Service Providers (ISPs) seem to perform differently when it comes to the installing and syncing of altcoin wallets. Syncing for the first time can take up quite a few hours of download time - 2, or 3 days with long-established coins having long DNA-like blockchains. Some ISPs do switch off the connection and reset according to their 'fair-useage', 'Unlimited' package polices - although it must be noted Internet Service switching off can occur spontaneously. Intermittently. (Guerrilla warfare: switching an erratic Internet Services Provider for another could be a solution if all else fails!)  

Still in trouble? Then we are into the realms of the esoteric! Candles and Magik at the ready:  -rescan;  -salvagewallet, or whatever the appropriate terms are in Zeitcoin-land. Personally, I've never had to use them!  


In other words, as a general rule, it might be considered common decency to first check whether a computer, or Internet Service Provision is at fault before posting a syncing problem on a thread such as this.

P.S.
If you decide to let it sync on its own from scratch, (as with all POS coins) some users never updated their wallets to the latest version, and if it hangs on 1 block , then you can wait anywhere from 10 to 40 minutes for the bad peer to go offline and the sync continue or just close and restart the wallet and it will jump over the bad peer and continue syncing. Easy & fastest way just download the entire blockchain.

[/quote]

Thanks for the info, dowloaded the file . Really starting to like this community, no bitchin, just helpin without talking me down for not knowing this, I like it

Offcourse the ZeitGeist movement is awesome, hope someday the sheeple will see it too...