Topic: 1GH/s, 20w, $700 (was $500) — Butterflylabs, is it for real? (Part 2) - page 60. (Read 146936 times)

Thanks, that's what I thought. It seems like someone has seen 2 test units but nothing has actually been shipped. Would be interested as well to know when the planned shipping date would be and how it performs when it ships.

Shipments with the upgraded power subsystem are slated to start in January. As far as I know, no units have been shipped yet.

@BFL: can you provide more detail? For those who already have orders, when do you expect to ship their units (approximately; I realize unforeseen circumstances between now and then can alter that estimate)?

Has anybody actually read the MF thread?

Mod here, lets keep it civil.

Has anybody actually received a shipping product?

Grue, click on my previous posts and you'll find several full and detailed clarifications to this with state registration links etc etc etc.  I won't bother to review them all here because there's no way you could have possibly missed them if you have read these threads.  You're just a troll. 

This is my last post to you, Grue.  If our product affects your view of the world in some painful way, you're just going to have to deal with it. 

Good luck.

BFL

BFL: you have still not replied about the authenticity of your business registration[/b. This was brought up over a month ago, and a member even claims that registration is not really yours.

source? and who do you mean by "some"?

They don't lie, they just test under extremely optimized conditions that are unrealistic in the the everyday world.

And so since car manufacurers lie about their stats, it's perfectly honest for BFL to do the same. Great logic you have there.

I agree with Inaba. And, like Inaba said, I am not speaking because I never made one of those.

I don't see anyone taking other people's money under false pretenses (what your commonly refer as scam). I also don't see anyone forcing people to buy FPGAs. I do see a price label and a performance measure which was verified by Inaba under the described conditions. With that I being said, I don't really understand the point of this discussion.

You can make one of the following widgets per day, A or B, which would you choose?

A.  Total cost of production: $10. Selling price: $20. Profit: $10
B.  Total cost of production: $2. Selling price: $4. Profit: $2

Yeah, I don't see 75% of the forum disagreeing, I see handful of individuals being rabidly angry for no logical or reasonable reason. 

It's also nothing like claiming a car gets 1000 MPG and it only gets 50.  It's like claiming a car gets 100 mpg (just like some claimed the leaf and in the beginning the Prius), when it only gets 25 (which is what the Prius gets on the highway under poor conditions).  On top of that, my "regular car" gets 50 MPG on the highway and 42 in the city.  It blows the Prius out of the water for city driving and I have 200 HP and 300 ft/lb torque... so taking the tired and trusty car analogy to it's logical conclusion, the Toyota and Nissan are a bunch of liars, thieves and dishonest fuckwits for claiming 100 MPG estimates when the reality is far, far removed from the actual execution.  On top of that, they are doubly offensive for trying to claim their craptacular hybrids are superior to modern diesel engines, which routinely get the same or better MPG under many circumstances, have a longer useful life, cost less and have more power than the hybrids they are lying to the public about.

But lets be real... we are talking about bitcoin mining devices that use 80w (probably less in the shipping version), which, as I said, is STILL ahead of EVERY OTHER DEVICE available right now... so whether or not it's 20w or 80w, it's still superior to everything else and thus it's more profitable in the end, which is what matters.

And Goat, you are deluding yourself if you think most people are not in it for the profit.  Yes, there are definitely some in it for the political / societal ramifications, but the majority of miners are there for profit, not ideology.

Stand back gentlemen a wild troll approaches.
How do you get that 75 recent of the forum disagrees with Inaba and BFL.

Perhaps because he has seen and tested the product in question, and everyone else has not? I dunno, just a thought.

it's nothing in terms of profitability, but it does show that they are incompetent
it's better than GPUs, but that doesn't mean you can overestimate by a factor of 4. It's like saying a hybrid can get 1000 MPG when it can only get 50. is it better than a regular car? yes. but just because it's better, should a manufacturer be able to overstate its claims? no
It's just that you always seem to be biased towards BFL, even when 75%+ of the forums disagree.

Yes, my conclusions are based on the only factor that matters in bitcoin for 99.9% of the people: profitability.

I think that Inaba reached that conclusion by estimating profitability, not power efficiency.  If power efficiency is your main criteria then the ztex is the proper choice for you.

Currently the BFL widget has the shortest break even period, I think that may be the most important criteria for most other miners.

In any case, I included the links so you can customize the estimates for your particular operation.
ztex x10 units for volume discount
Icarus x5 units
X6500 x10 units for volume discount
BFL widget x2 units

[Edit:
Please note that for all links, the "break even after" assumes the block reward does not change for the entire break even period.  However, for all but the BFL widget, the breakeven period is greater than 500 days (at the current bitcoin price).  A more accurate projection would require recalculating at the time the block reward halves, while adjusting hardware cost based on what has been paid.

I will leave this task to those miners who are so inclined.

Also, market conditions like difficulty and price are not addressed.  I am not worried about difficulty(since greater difficulty follows greater price), but price can have a profound impact on the payback period.
]

Of course it does.  What matters is performance per watt.  It is like saying CFL don't save much power because it is 12W vs 60W see less than a 50W difference.  The reality is the CFL uses 80% less power the change in performance per watt is significant.  To replace your 15GH would require ~20 units.  That is 1200W more load.  That's $1000 to $2000 a year higher energy costs.  


Not sure how you reached that conclusion.  It is 10MH/W.  

To put it into perspective:
GPU can get 2.5MH/W is done right.  
You "could" underclock and undervolt to push that to >3MH/W.  
If 7800 series use VLIW5 they will be getting almost 4MH/W stock.  
Current get FPGA are getting up to 22MH/W.  
28nm FPGA will likely push that up to 40MH/W range.  

Thanks for sticking around and answering questions. Merry Christmas to you too!

Yes, it is quite embarrasing for you to be caught in your lies.