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Topic: 1GH/s, 20w, $700 (was $500) — Butterflylabs, is it for real? (Part 2) - page 59. (Read 146909 times)

sr. member
Activity: 461
Merit: 251
bitlane is right. trolls will always troll and haters will always hate. everyone should shut up until someone receives a working unit. the reality is that people can't think for themselves. like the product, then buy it. don't like it then don't buy it and then let them be. in every purchase there are some risks. i thought bitcoin users are a bit more thoughtful, but i was wrong.
BFL keep doing whatever you are doing there, but don't forget there are a lot of people that are waiting for the product to be shipped. i bet trolls will troll even after the product ships about the whatever-random-thing on the unit board.(maybe i want the PCB to be yellow)

+1

You guys didn't give BFL a chance.  From day one on the original thread you were accusing them of being scammers.  Either they are the most stubborn scammers in the world, or they have a real product.  That's why I sent them $617.  If I'm scammed, then kudos to BFL for your persistence.

Lol if you are giving out money for persistence than maybe I should pester you until you give me money.
legendary
Activity: 1904
Merit: 1002
bitlane is right. trolls will always troll and haters will always hate. everyone should shut up until someone receives a working unit. the reality is that people can't think for themselves. like the product, then buy it. don't like it then don't buy it and then let them be. in every purchase there are some risks. i thought bitcoin users are a bit more thoughtful, but i was wrong.
BFL keep doing whatever you are doing there, but don't forget there are a lot of people that are waiting for the product to be shipped. i bet trolls will troll even after the product ships about the whatever-random-thing on the unit board.(maybe i want the PCB to be yellow)

+1

You guys didn't give BFL a chance.  From day one on the original thread you were accusing them of being scammers.  Either they are the most stubborn scammers in the world, or they have a real product.  That's why I sent them $617.  If I'm scammed, then kudos to BFL for your persistence.
legendary
Activity: 1904
Merit: 1007
bitlane is right. trolls will always troll and haters will always hate. everyone should shut up until someone receives a working unit. the reality is that people can't think for themselves. like the product, then buy it. don't like it then don't buy it and then let them be. in every purchase there are some risks. i thought bitcoin users are a bit more thoughtful, but i was wrong.
BFL keep doing whatever you are doing there, but don't forget there are a lot of people that are waiting for the product to be shipped. i bet trolls will troll even after the product ships about the whatever-random-thing on the unit board.(maybe i want the PCB to be yellow)
sr. member
Activity: 462
Merit: 250
I heart thebaron
This thread is about speculating on if their product is real or not. Read the topic title.  BFL can make their own thread and I wont post there as anything I post would odds are be off topic.
Right..... and having the scammer tag constantly thrown at them is SSSooooo productive, right ?
How's that helping with speculation and their general response to the forum that has done all but actually/physically SHIT on them ?
sr. member
Activity: 462
Merit: 250
I heart thebaron
Their claims have already been proved to be false. The only idiots were the ones that didn't question those claims. It's unlikely we're done finding problems with BFL.
YES, BY THEIR OWN DOING/TESTING....NOT BY YOU OR ANYONE ELSE HERE. Their testing has lead to a re-evaluation of things, not the MOB and it's attack on them.


Why not just let them be ?
Do they really need to be investigated ? their business location checked on ? grilling the 'public' persona of this company ?
Why not let them get a piece of equipment on the market, then critique it ?

They have clearly made claims to the contrary, to which they are coming to terms with now and have already offered 'a way out' for those TWO PEOPLE? that have made deposits, by way of FULL REFUND or CONTINUING with their orders after specs have been finalized.

I bet this thread would get really quiet if it were to be reserved for only those who have made a financial stake in their product.

Everyone is fighting over paper specs and speculation, not to mention, how many of you would walk into a Chevy dealership and scream at the Receptionist if the Corvette failed to make it's advertised power on a Dynometer ?
legendary
Activity: 3878
Merit: 1193
I hope this product turns out to be the greatest piece of Bitcoin mining hardware available, making every finger-pointing cry-baby douche bag in this, as well as the previous thread look like a complete idiot.
Their claims have already been proved to be false. The only idiots were the ones that didn't question those claims. It's unlikely we're done finding problems with BFL.
legendary
Activity: 3878
Merit: 1193
Not satisfying your curiosity by keeping the nature of our technology private isn't being dishonest.  What's relevant is performance and as far as that goes, we've been perfectly open and have shared the details along the way with both the public and our customers.

Quote
3. Is your system based on FPGA or ASIC technology?

The BitForce processor card is a proprietary implementation of both FPGA and ASIC technology.

Are you claiming to be using a non off-the-shelf FPGA? Since you don't understand power draws, I question how much power you are pumping through those FPGAs.
sr. member
Activity: 462
Merit: 250
I heart thebaron
Just for the sake of being one of those guys that doesn't make a habit of talking shit over the internet and would say much worse to someone's face......

I hope this product turns out to be the greatest piece of Bitcoin mining hardware available, making every finger-pointing cry-baby douche bag in this, as well as the previous thread look like a complete idiot......and are somehow denied the opportunity to ever purchase one....and contract either gonorrhoea or syphilis.
sr. member
Activity: 448
Merit: 250
Butterflylabs, is it for real?

That is the topic. The point of this thread was to see if you are for real. The questions asked were very on topic and related. Asking very reasonable questions is not trolling. The smart people asking questions are known to other forum members as being reasonable and educated on the topic. Your calling us trolls does not make it so.

Also keep in mind, this is not your personal thread. You had the option to make your own thread to give out information. Please read the topic again...

I am not shocked about your strategy of fleeing. If you do not have answers it is safer for you not to give any.

Best of luck in life and Merry Christmas.



I mean, I have no skin in the game so I am kind of trolling, but sheeeit...I think I have made some valid points.
hero member
Activity: 504
Merit: 500
Decent Programmer to boot!
Thank you for gracing us with your presence to partially answer questions for two weeks in a thread that has been running for three months.

You didn't show up with real responses to the questions posed until the cat was out of the bag on your claims being bullshit. Perhaps in the future you could interact with your clientele in a context outside damage mitigation.

Anyways, merry christmas. I look forward to your product hitting the market. Once it is here and proven functional and reliable, I am sure you will have more orders than you can handle (>2).

+1 It is the truth... They only tried to minimize damage control on their ignorance to sharing knowledge.
sr. member
Activity: 448
Merit: 250
Thank you for gracing us with your presence to partially answer questions for two weeks in a thread that has been running for three months.

You didn't show up with real responses to the questions posed until the cat was out of the bag on your claims being bullshit. Perhaps in the future you could interact with your clientele in a context outside damage mitigation.

Anyways, merry christmas. I look forward to your product hitting the market. Once it is here and proven functional and reliable, I am sure you will have more orders than you can handle (>2).
BFL
full member
Activity: 217
Merit: 100
Ladies and gentlemen,

This thread has officially degenerated.  I'll be leaving you four trolls to yourselves.  Have a good time.

If you have any serious questions or comments, please send them via email to office @ butterflylabs com.  I'll do my best to reply in good time.

Kind regards,
BFL


hero member
Activity: 504
Merit: 500
Decent Programmer to boot!
To BFL,

October was 4 to 8 weeks.
December is 4 to 6 weeks.
So at this rate February should be in 4 weeks? Smiley


Yes, it's our goal to reduce lead time from the date of order as volume increases.

Regards,
BFL

The way I read that, you won't have any product made (to be shipped) until you have enough order volume? In other words, the early adopters are being screwed? With that logic, you could push ship date indefinitely, and never reach the volume as faith will be lost.

I also interpreted that as, "We won't work any of these bugs out until after we have made enough money to be able to disappear."


1000 orders later and 3 months later (figuratively speaking), ship date could be in 2-3 weeks from what you just said. Great way to screw anyone willing to put faith in your business.
BFL
full member
Activity: 217
Merit: 100
To BFL,

October was 4 to 8 weeks.
December is 4 to 6 weeks.
So at this rate February should be in 4 weeks? Smiley


Yes, it's our goal to reduce lead time as volume increases.

Regards,
BFL
legendary
Activity: 2058
Merit: 1431
Grue, click on my previous posts and you'll find several full and detailed clarifications to this with state registration links etc etc etc.  I won't bother to review them all here because there's no way you could have possibly missed them if you have read these threads.  You're just a troll. 
oh really? let's analyze your previous posts.
Note, I'm not a lawyer and this should not be taken as legal advice, but here's the answer to your question...

Corporate registry in any state requires a local address of record.  Certain states (Delaware and Wyoming are good examples) have worked hard to create attractive corporate taxation policy.  They do this mostly by not taxing assets or profit as long as they're out of state.  However, since an in state address must be provided for yearly filings and correspondence (minutes of record, board meetings, charter renewal etc) to maintain the legal body active and healthy from year to year, a registered agent specializing in these interactions is commonly retained.  This keeps the corporate assets and profits, which are out of state, free from in state taxation.  I think a casual review of business norms would reverse any thoughts about this being a murky practice.  It's simply how business is done and also why the vast majority of the US fortune 500 are registered in either Wyoming or Delaware.

Regards,
BFL
ok, you state why you have a whyoming[sic] state registration.

Actually I think this is the very first post where you indicated you have a dba filing as Butterfly Labs. 
There is no dba filing in the state of Missouri for "Butterfly Labs Inc."

D&T, "related dba filings underway" implies they're not through the process yet.  However, it's a valid question that you had asked before and didn't get an answer.  Mostly because the discussion hadn't been reasonable enough to warrant comment at the time in the other wild thread.

Having a DBA is legally relevant only when you're writing a check or entering into a legal relationship with a name that's not backed by a legal structure.  All our communication, merchant accounts & contracts are marked with BF Labs Inc.  So making a point of this is splitting hairs.  If you need to be right..  well, you are.  Is it relevant...  no...  not really.  In anycase, DBA's have been underway for quite some time and with a little patience, you'll be comforted to see them when you refresh your registry page.

D&T, in general you seem to have been at us with a fire poker.  I can understand why.  You were making a technical assessment that you believed in and mostly turned out to be right (regarding power draw).  However, I don't believe you've been particularly unfair along the way when you've had the facts...  and I appreciate that.

Regards,
BFL
you're saying that you're making a dba filing, but nothing to backup your ownership of the said registration.
The legal entity is BF Labs Inc. which is a Wyoming corporation.  We operate under the brand entity Butterfly Labs with related dba filings underway for the various permutations of that name.  Any formal interaction with the company such as purchases and communication clearly states BF Labs Inc.

Here is the official entry in the Wyoming state corporate registry :
https://wyobiz.wy.gov/Business/FilingDetails.aspx?FilingNum=2011-000606261

I should point out that Goat knows all this already as it's been covered several times in the previous thread.  I guess my job as forum rep is like following a toddler around with a wash cloth.  Ah..  I should stop complaining.  It's not so bad.

Regards,
BFL

PS.  Here's a previous post answering this same question:

1.  Corporate registry - The company is a 'C' corp registered in the state of Wyoming as BF Labs Inc.  Why Wyoming when you're not based there?  Mostly due to it's favorable tax and legal climate.  Operating in the same state of incorporation exposes the company to additional tax liabilities.  You might also find it interesting to know that the majority of US domiciled fortune 500 companies are either Delaware or Wyoming corporations for these same reasons.  Intel is a good example. 
You post a link to the registration, which also happens to be the same link that a member posted on November the 6th. Which, correct me if i'm wrong, you have not commented on until mid December. In addition, there is also a post claiming that the registration does not belong to you.

Perhaps my point wasn't stated clearly. Here is it again: what's preventing me from creating a company called "Butter Fried Labs", and claiming to use the same registration? You see the problem there? ANY company (with a similar name) could claim that registration belongs to them; simply saying "oh, we're registered as BFL in Wyoming" isn't enough. You need to provide definitive proof that proves the registration is yours, and you're not merely using another company's registration.

Oh, what about your dba filings? are they still not complete yet?

Your strange activities regarding the registration of your business makes me believe that a) you are not registered as a company, at all. b) you're using another company's registration to cover your behind (why else would you take one and a half months to reply to a registration issue?)

This is my last post to you, Grue.  If our product affects your view of the world in some painful way, you're just going to have to deal with it. 
that's a nice cop out to some legitimate questions about your business.  Roll Eyes
BFL
full member
Activity: 217
Merit: 100
Why not put it on your website? It's a pretty important piece of information for both current and potential customers.

Well Randy, because it looks like he might be a customer asking about specific delivery position timing and that's not a good topic for the public forum.  Furthermore, delivery times are on the website for new customers and existing customers have been kept fully informed with an open line of communication.

Also, you're on repeat with your 4-6 week comment.   If you're going to be trolling, then at least tell it like it is.  Our posted delivery in October was 4-8 weeks from the date of purchase (which is not to far from now).  Since our public demo it's been reduced to 4-6 weeks.  We're currently scheduled for initial pre-order purchases to be delivered in January.

Regards,
BFL
sr. member
Activity: 448
Merit: 250
Has anybody actually received a shipping product?
Shipments with the upgraded power subsystem are slated to start in January. As far as I know, no units have been shipped yet.

@BFL: can you provide more detail? For those who already have orders, when do you expect to ship their units (approximately; I realize unforeseen circumstances between now and then can alter that estimate)?

Hi Epoch, please email me directly for updated delivery details.  office @ butterflylabs . com   

Regards,
BFL



Why not put it on your website? It's a pretty important piece of information for both current and potential customers.
BFL
full member
Activity: 217
Merit: 100
Has anybody actually received a shipping product?
Shipments with the upgraded power subsystem are slated to start in January. As far as I know, no units have been shipped yet.

@BFL: can you provide more detail? For those who already have orders, when do you expect to ship their units (approximately; I realize unforeseen circumstances between now and then can alter that estimate)?

Hi Epoch, please email me directly for updated delivery details.  office @ butterflylabs . com   

Regards,
BFL

donator
Activity: 1218
Merit: 1079
Gerald Davis
Thanks, that's what I thought. It seems like someone has seen 2 test units but nothing has actually been shipped. Would be interested as well to know when the planned shipping date would be and how it performs when it ships.

Shipping date today is 4-6 weeks.  Of course shipping date was 4-6 weeks 10 weeks ago too.
sr. member
Activity: 448
Merit: 250
Has anybody actually received a shipping product?
Shipments with the upgraded power subsystem are slated to start in January. As far as I know, no units have been shipped yet.

@BFL: can you provide more detail? For those who already have orders, when do you expect to ship their units (approximately; I realize unforeseen circumstances between now and then can alter that estimate)?

4-6 weeks, man. Just like it was in October.
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