Topic: 280 BTC total bets between Micon and mrb (are BFL ASICs real?) - page 12. (Read 46369 times)

Do you have a reading comprehension problem, Bryan?  I said I would take your bet as long as you prove you aren't lying when you say the BFL is a scam by taking me up on the aforementioned bet.  You want me to bet on my words but you are unwilling to bet on your own words.  By your own unwillingness to bet me on your own statements, everyone with their eyes open can see that even you yourself don't believe your words enough to bet 100 BTC on it.  It's clear you are lying and lying about BFL being a scam.  I will take your bet, Bryan, as long as you take mine.  You are the only one holding up this bet at this point.

I'll tell you what Bryan, since you are so unwilling to put any real money down on your own words, lets do this:

You bet your precious domain name that you registered with my name against BTC.  That way, you are only out the price of a domain name when you lose.  You tell me how much you'd sell me that domain name for if I were to buy it outright and perhaps we can come to an agreement where I wager BTC against the domain name. 

All I'm betting is that you are lying here: https://forums.butterflylabs.com/bfl-forum-miscellaneous/690-13-jan-2013-asic-update-discussion-thread-55.html#post15632

in your official update thread.  I am betting anyone who will take the bet that you are lying, and that BFL will not ship 3 units by 3/20/2013.  By your continued unwillingness to bet me on your own statements, me and everyone with their eyes open can see that even you yourself don't believe your words enough to bet $600 on it.

I once again, for the nth time re-iterate a wager that I willing to bet 20 coins on "false" right now:

"Butterfly Labs will deliver 3+ verified ASIC orders that meet or beat specs of 350+ mhash/joule by 3/20/2013"

So Josh, the ball is in your court, and everyone with a pre-order has to be wondering why you continue to balk at this very clear wager based on terms you posted.

I guess I don't know what to even reply here.  I have offered you a simple bet based on information that you posted.

i suppose this is the most curious statement:


I mean, I am totally 100% willing to bet "false" on this statement:

"Butterfly Labs will deliver 3+ verified ASIC orders that meet or beat specs of 350+ mhash/joule by 3/20/2013"

And Josh Zerlan has demonstrated numerous times he is not willing to back his own words with 20 coins:  https://forums.butterflylabs.com/announcements/692-bfl-asic-status.html   

why you ask?  it's because Josh Zerlan does not believe his own words.  He would jump at the chance to win $600 from me, especially after I created JoshZerlan.com from my Galaxy Note 2, but he knows his words are false and couldn't stand to not only have me pwn him in regards to google results for his name, but also to win $600 USD from him in only a month's time.

Josh's game here is transparent to me:  He won't even bet that his own statements will come true.

Just answer my question!

BFL is incompetent scam.

it may not be that black and white. For arguments sake, lets assume BFL gets their 75K chips tomorrow, assembles everything and then  does "burn in tests" of  their hardware for 6 months straight before shipping. Would that make it a scam or just late?

BFL is incompetent?

becoin, you are ridiculous. You said word for word "BFL is going to deliver something like a bitcoin mining ASIC", which contradicts "BFL is a scam" (because everybody except you interprets it as meaning "BFL will deceive by not delivering anything").

In your very own vocabulary, "is a scam" seems to mean "is late". If that is what you want to complain about then use the adjective "late", not the noun "scam". How many times do I have to explain this?

LOL. How do I contradict myself?


Do you think my grandma won't deserve a scammer tag if she delivers "something"?

You contradict yourself, again, because you admitted here that BFL will deliver "something", hence making them not a scam. Being late in delivering a product makes them, at worst, incompetent, but not scammers.

Besides, what financial incentive would the "scammers" have to be late? The later they are, the more the competition steals customers from BFL, and the less money they make (which is kind of the objective #1 of "scamming", ahem...). Gosh, I wish you and others would be more careful in your use of the english language. These misplaced "scam!" accusation are becoming tiring and repetitive.

Bottom line, if you are upset that BFL is late then say "BFL is late!" not "BFL is a scam!".

BFL is a scam!

Soon it'll be 1 year since they begun taking "pre-orders". They deliberately failed to inform their customers that actually they are not customers but investors! They took millions from their investors in "pre-orders" without any obligation! Their only obligation is "Thank you for your money. We'll do what we can whenever we can". This is not company-customer relation. This is company-investor relation!

Micon, you are mentally deficient.  You simply can't grasp the situation apparently.  I will take you up on your bet as long as you back up your claim that BFL is a scam.  You are refusing, which demonstrates to me that you are liar and do not even believe your own brand of bullshit.

Here's the bottom line: You are making a claim.  You have nothing to back up this claim.  You are not willing to even stand by your claim through a bet.  The only possibly conclusion one can come to:  Bryan Micon is a liar and a scammer.  Heh.. professional poker player indeed.  No wonder you are a failure.

Can't someone report these guys to a government organization for a real investigation?  Like the BBB or something like that?  Not sure who it would be that you report them to; if i had money invested in their FASIC's I would certainly do something like this.

Hey jerkoff, I ordered a Jalapeno about a million years ago and I haven't received it yet so as far as I am concerned BFL is a ripoff / scam until I get the device in my hands. The only reason I haven't canceled is because I consider the $149 I paid to be a small-stake gamble.

Short bus much?

oh no.

Right now they are a scam.  At the very least, they are being extremely wreckless by taking unlimited pre-orders and even at this stage buying all the marketing they can each month to maximize monthly cashflow.  In essence, they are gambling your pre-order money on R&D.  This is not a pre-order, there has never been a product.  They are (hopefully if you have a pre-order) gambling your pre-order money to try and make the product.

A responsible company would do a round of funding because there is no guarantee the product will ever be delivered.  By Josh's own admission they are in some stage of development.  After missing the deadline 6 months in a row or more, they continue to act very irresponsibly and take unlimited uncapped pre-orders before a product is developed.  What if the wafer does a waffle or whatever excuse Josh is likely to end up saying was the reason why it failed and that they were ordering another company to do another wafer-caper and just keep waiting and keep shipping pre-orders.  Eventually this will dry up, eventually they will stop posting.

As with the Pirateat40 scandal, there was a very long "waiting period" as I described where marks were "let down easy" then the massive delays and missed deadlines and false promises that the money will come back start. 

BFL is much more complex than Pirateat40.  They had previously shipped FPGAs (although it seems like they were simply buying in bulk, selling to end users) and others have long theorized about ASICs, and now 2 other independent companies have shipped working products - when a new user wants in on the mining race, they are bombarded with BFL ads that say "XXXX gh/s for XXX$" and after the jump it says pre-order, but the site looks nice, there is a presence on the forum, ads in bitcoin magazine, ads on Bitcointalk, ads on google, ads on ask.com, ads everywhere for butterfly labs, a show at CES, it seems like they are acting legitimate if the user doesn't know the full drama going on, the endless missed deadlines, the endless spin, the endless abusive nature of the CEO, the fact that the guy who started the company is a convicted fraudster, etc and etc.

THIS

The more I read Josh' posts, the more one would actually start believing Micon. FFS josh, start acting like a pro. if you were on my payroll Id have you fired just for your immature communication. Well, that and for consistently missing deadlines and breaking promises for the better part of 6 months now, but I guess thats a BFL tradition thats perhaps cherished there.

Did the chips work?

Le sigh...

1) It's called "burden of proof" and it's on YOU.  YOU are the one making the claim, thus YOU are the one require to prove it.  This is a fundamental tenant of making an accusation such as this.

2)  You are a failed professional gambler, not a professional gambler.  But that is neither here nor there.  Your claim is BFL is a scam.  The terms are: BFL is not a scam and will deliver ASICs.  The termination date of the bet is there to facilitate an end date to the bet, not to determine if BFL is a scam or not.  Technically, unless BFL folds up shop and runs away with the money, your accusation is false.  However, out of the goodness of my heart, I am giving you a termination date to the bet can be resolved prior to it's regular resolution period.  

3)  I would like to bet.  Your claim is that BFL is a scam (See your point number 1), therefore the terms of the bet are whether or not BFL is a scam.  The bet you are trying to place is not about whether or not BFL is a scam.  The bet you are trying to place is "When will BFL ship."  These two statements are contradictory and mutually exclusive.  If you think BFL is going to ship at some point, then you do not believe BFL is a scam.  However, if you believe BFL is a scam, then the shipping date is immaterial to this bet.  So trying to force the bet to be based on a shipping date is not betting on whether or not BFL is a scam.

If you would like to bet that BFL is a scam, I will bet with you.  However, since you are refusing to do so, I expect a public apology and retraction of the fact that you think BFL is a scam.  If you are unwilling to bet on this, being a professional gambler and all, you are lying about believing BFL is a scam.  After you apologize and publicly retract your false allegations or you confirm your false allegations in the form of a bet stating as such, I will be happy to enter into the wager you are proposing.  

Until such time as one of the two above mentioned scenarios happen, let it be known that Bryan Micon is a liar and has no evidence to back up his false allegations, in addition, he is unwilling to back up his false allegations in the form of a bet, which is a reasonable form of confirmation given that he is a self admitted "professional gambler."

le sigh...

1)  I think BFL is a scam.  It is on you to prove otherwise.  You are the one holding millions in community monies.  You promised product 6+ months ago and continue to delay.  It insults intelligence that you are the one hurling accusations here, as technically you already are a scam and you cannot prove otherwise.

2)  I am a professional gambler.  You may have seen me on ESPN during the WSOP:   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-mBUA-uUDM    The way that we bet with each other, as you can see from the 3 other users that I currently have bets with (totaling over ~ $5,000 USD) that you set terms and then escrow money and wait for the date or action that settles the wager. 

3) If you would like to bet, the only bet I am willing to make with you is for 20 coins each, and I would like to take "false" on the following statement:

"Butterfly Labs will deliver 3+ verified ASIC orders that meet or beat specs of 350+ mhash/joule by 3/20/2013" 

If you would like to wager me 20 coins on "true" to the above statement, We will ask Mike for escrow codes.  Outside of that, there are no other wagers I will make with you.