Topic: [350 GH/s] "Eligius" (experimental) pool: almost feeless PPS, hoppers welcome - page 5. (Read 116988 times)

You have yet to actually prove yourself right - which is impossible so stop not trying (not a typo - I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt that this is not your best effort).

You rant here on unquantifiable remarks like "scammed", "cheated", "stolen," "borrowed," - and the quantifiable parts of your argument are just outright bizarre.  6.3 is almost 7 bitcoins?  Really?  Link you to "an eligius  miner stats page who used us-server on June 14th and didn't get scammed" - easy.  I can link you to all of them because you have yet to qualify "scammed" with something more than your random opinions and obfuscated arguments.

I can prove to you that I got "almost 7 bitcoins" (qualified as a number between 0 and 7 but less than 6.3) on all of the days you've mentioned.

That is enough to invalidate your ranting as "OMG 1 h4s empirical evidence of criminal scammery!!111"


How about you link me to page with undeniable proof that luke-jr is intentionally taking mining earnings as his own with the intent of acquiring those funds through malicious use of a pool?  You provided little more than a description of the technical problems and limitations we are all already familiar with.

tl;dr version in gimEEE-language:  You require proof from the agent of consecutive retort proselytizing the morose, laudable, elementary criminality of the personality of the luke-jr syndicated criminal organization.  In that conviction, you have deluded the earnest and honest declarations of those individuals without malice as using bias-confirmations without logical aptitude.  To you, I unabashedly declare the fraudulent and scathing remarks to be unqualified and postulate undeniable and logical attestation of duplicitous behavior.

The MaxPPS change was expected for about a month before it happened. If people had a problem with it, they should have said so before then. As it turned out, the variation made the 40% MaxPPS impractical to run long, so I had to (retroactively) revert it to proportional rather soon. In short, all balances are presently correct, as determined by the original Proportional payout method, even if there is a (small) backlog on the US server. Occasional backlogs have been normal since almost the start of Eligius (ever since the 1 BTC minimum was implemented), and the only reason it's taking so long now is the general problems with getting the US pool running again. Since all the US blocks have long since reached the 120 confirmations, I have been making an exception to the usual policy by sending manual payouts on request to people who need their funds sooner.

The last several pages are full of highly unprofessional banter. Can we please stick to the facts and lay of the ad-hom attacks?

I think the real problem here is that Luke-Jr has changed the rules of the game several times lately without warning. Some of these changes have resulted in the pool holding on to small, but not entirely insignificant, amounts of BTC owed to the miners. To make matters worse, these withheld earnings come with little explanation from Luke-Jr and little more than a vague promise to pay them out at some later date.

These events as of late are disappointing, to say the least, for a pool that prides itself on transparency.

Libel much?

"At the moment of difficulty. . ." - error in your logic, end processing.
Truth - "Diffculty" was around june 14th, as I've stated, it's over a week since the scamming started, in BTC a week is like eternity.

That's naive to look at eu server and say "it's paying people out good, I don't have to worry, I'll keep using the service." I hope he doesn't repeat the theft on you guys. . .

Unless you're addressing the scamming done on the us server around June 14th, your arguments are nonsequitors.

So, if I were to say "Eligius paid me fine from June 6th to June 12th each time I had more than 1BTC, so you should trust him," it would likewise be a nonsense rebuttal to the specific scamming incidents I have claimed and had admitted by the operator.

How can you prove me wrong? Link to an eligius miner stats page who used us-server on June 14th and didn't get scammed out of BTC.

I am fairly new to Eligius, but have been promptly paid each time I passed the 1.0 BTC mark. No complaints here.

Yo dawg, whaddap wit all da long words and shizz?!

What you call "paternalistic argument" I call sarcasm. If you can't discern the both of them, I suggest English Lit 101.

The 1,000 were a bit over-zealous, agreed. The thing is, Luke-Jr has nothing to gain from "withholding" blocks because they are not in his account. They have been paid out to other people already to set their balance straight. So in order for a payout to happen, new coins have to be generated. Is it really that hard?!

Notwithstanding the unusual situation with the US server (being offline and thus delaying payout of the biggest amount you're claiming), the behavior of Eligius in regard to the EU server is perfectly normal. I recently reached 1.005 BTC balance and was not paid out, but I did not hyperventilate as on the next block I got paid 1.05 BTC ...

If your goal is to scare miners away from Eligius, you're not succeeding. At least not with me. I like it and I'm staying!

And good for you. I'm the author of DiabloMiner and a forum mod and one of the earliest Bitcoin adopters.

I use Eligius.  

The precedence here is that luke-jr provided a service and the moment the service has some technical difficulties.... this guy is trying to go on a witch-hunt on the forums to find "almost 7" (almost 7 being defined as a number between 0 and 6.3) bitcoins by way of "public dispute" (aka harassment, slander and general flame).  It's immature and extremely entertaining, but very saddening to see luke-jr outright attacked for providing a service to the best of his ability without additional compensation or claim to any compensation - that is, even though an exceptional amount of work is done for eligius users, luke-jr's reward is to put up with nitwits.

That, of course, equally applies for all pool owners, operators and supporters.  You can find nitwits like GimEEE in EVERY pool claiming more than their fair share *immediately* and committing to outright harassment until they believe they're rewarded appropriately - or until a new PS3 game/WoW expansion/Twilight comes out and they find something better to do.

You can clearly see in the posts above that there is no sign of objectiveness or consideration for other individuals.  It's a very clear sign of immaturity and inability to properly function in any community when the thought that "I'm going to strong-arm the internet to bend to my will!" is the singular motivator of action for an individual. 

In other words....


Winner.

The truth is you don't acknowledge the overwhelming evidence of your maximumpps BTC shorting technique that you used to gain significant amounts of BTC from miners around June 14th on the us server.
I presented the evidence for one typical user above and explained how the shorting technique worked.
presenting facts not equal trolling

I can (and have been) make exceptions and manually send from the pool accounts, but GimEEE is demanding about 2 times what he is due, and if I offered to send his balance he would probably try to spin it as offering a settlement of a lower amount than he wants. Not to mention, why go out of my way for someone trolling?

This problem is inherent in the way eligius pays out. Each block can pay out a maximum of 50BTC + Fees (because all payouts are done with the generation transaction). So if there is more than 50BTC to be paid, it's impossible and some of the payouts have to be enqueued for the next block, but the next block will have the same problem as the eligius fees are very small and with each block, the miners gain ~50BTC more to be paid out. So if there is a big backlog of payouts, it will take some time.

If I remember correctly, there's a special wallet where any generations that are created in a block but can't be paid out yet because there is no user with >1BTC balance are sent. It should be possible for luke-jr to send a standard transaction from that wallet to GimEEE to settle this once and for all.

I did, almost all the top miners did, as you'll see none of the current miners were active around June 14th when the shorting took place.
Using a different pool doesn't get my "borrowed without permission" BTC back from Eligius though.

But, blocks were found as miners were going unpaid with >1BTC balances:
Here's one typical example: http://eligius.st/~artefact2/us/1QEkXwhhHbaBCfmEHY7bh8QNPVkFtorQkK
Earning BTC after BTC and the pool just didn't pay out block after block. . .
I don't understand your straw argument of 1,000BTC. could you please explain that further? Are you claiming that it's ok for Eligius to withhold payments for 2000% of the normal block contributions (which would necessarily span a minimum 21+blocks) as BTC are piling up?
Then there's great motivation for the operator to stop "finding blocks" and it could explain the current situation.

You also justify the theft by saying he is doing a good job safekeeping me from selling my BTC. I don't accept this paternalistic argument and feel it is totally unjustifiable to support Eligius breaking the promised payout schedule and keep my BTC.
Maybe other miners have accepted it though, and it might explain that, but I'm not interested in Eligius helping me by safeguarding my BTC.

Then use a different pool.

Sorry for not quietly accepting the loss of BTC. . .
I'm the jackass for that.
The pool operator is totally in the right.
(that was sarcasm)

The website reads: "This amount will be paid to you when it reaches 1 BTC or after one week of inactivity, when the pool finds a block."
The US server has not found a block in almost a week, as you know. So it can't pay out, even if your balance would be 1,000 BTC, only when it comes back up again and finds another block in which to include the transactions. Unfortunate, but you wouldn't want to sell your coins at this price anyway, right?!

IMO Luke-Jr has fulfilled this "promise" (as you call it) to the letter. The downtime on US is annoying, but where was any guaranteed uptime promised?!

Mod here. Don't be a jackass.

Explicit promise doesn't require a contract, only a condition generally that entices someone to change their position or do something they would otherwise not do.
In this case, when Eligius operator wrote to me: I'll pay you when your balance is 1BTC or more. BINGO, explicit promise.
When I relied on that promise to give him mining work = fulfilment of my part of the conditional, leaving only his promise which is broken.
As opposed to no promise: I'll pay you if I feel like.
Or implicit promis: I'll pay you in a reasonable time. (which might be harder to argue, but still possible)

This case is clearly two explicit promises that were broken:
1) Eligius failed to pay usserver users as their balance exceeded 1 BTC
2) Eligius failed to reimburse the maximumpps shorting on longer rounds (which eligius failed to reimburse the shorting on)


This is a public dispute between Eligius and myself (and the owner of all the other addresses that have been shorted and non-payed).
I don't understand the running for governor thing? or unionizing, or your involvement.
I had BTC promised to me, then the promisor reniged and failed to deliver after I delivered my part of the bargain.

Jokes are a good way to help with the sad reality of being screwed out of BTC.
Was I gullible, yeah, I mined with Eligius AFTER seeing the results of the maximumpps shorting system. I even mined AFTER he failed to pay out the > 1 BTC he owed me and trusted his promise to pay it. Maybe I'm too trusting. . .
I guess this could happen to miners on any pool, working for people who have control over large quantities of earned BTC.

Awesome supa!

I'm just pressing the "mine" button cause I can, if I get something awesome! if I don't I'll go somewhere else/pursue some other idea. Atm I get more than I loose and Luke-Jr is a pretty cool dude, life's great =)