Topic: [350 GH/s] "Eligius" (experimental) pool: almost feeless PPS, hoppers welcome - page 6. (Read 116938 times)

YMMD!

Also: Please ask your doctor if mining is the right choice for you!

This is my favorite part.

Are you running for governor of something?

Where are the explicit promises?  If we unionized and signed a contract with luke-jr, I would certainly like to know.  I would also like to know who represented me in negotiating those terms - as I'm sure I don't agree with whatever terms they chose purely out of spite.  If you're suggesting luke-jr performed the activities required of both parties in creating this contractual agreement, well... that's should be quite obvious in the ludicrous department.

I don't remember signing any long term agreements with Luke Jr. nor do I remember making any explicit commitments that I would even deliver work and on delivery of the work I never agreed to deliver.... I would get paid an amount reasonably close to my own expectations upon the delivery of the work that was never made clear.

If anything, I would insist that you pay me for failing to meet your obligation of committing work - that is, by neglecting to uphold your agreement to contribute with the rest of us you potentially cost me money.  At what time can I expect repayment of your obligations and clearly explicit promises?  In the event that you decide to neglect any rightful action on your explicit acceptance of any explicit promises, I expect a notarized letter to include any negotiation proposals in honest good-faith compromise.  If acceptable, I will also sign the document absolving any commitments you had to me by proxy of the pool.

Please be aware that there are many users of the Eligius pool and I am not responsible nor able to endorse any negotiations on their part and you may need to repeat this action in good-faith for every user.

Sincerely,
supa

PS - Bitcoin is still a very young project.  Please be aware and take proper precautions to avoid high blood pressure, nausea, male pattern baldness, hemorrhaging of soft-tissues, property damage and bodily harm during it's growth by utilizing good judgment during the journey.  This pool certainly isn't the only one with technical difficulties as the project grows and twists into something unrecognizable to the original concepts.

Regarding the maximumpps shorting system, it's totally different from "score based systems" - Here we had a pool operator reducing rewards for rounds less than 90 minutes and keeping the reduction to themselves (or loaning it to themselves if you want to give him the benefit of your optimism), there was a promise that rounds later that were longer would be repaid this loaned BTC, but this repayment was never implemented. there is a typical example of how it affected a user in my post above.
Of course optimism, hope, opinion, and LOTS of WAITING would be good in this case to reach the conclusion that nothing is fishy. Can the shorted miners use all those tools to accept current situation? yes, of course, they could also get a lobotomy and accept it.
Should miners quietly accept the fact that a pool took work under explicit promises, then failed to meet the conditions promised? Apparently you're saying I should. . .
Well, I did several days of waiting and hoping and being optimistic, and it didn't deliver the coins he owed me.

You're not going to pay him the money from eu? I thought you would acknowledged that debt also.
Since it's closer to 7 than it is to 6 --> almost 7, no need to put out a bunch of decimals, we see you owe a lot, that's all that matters.
Also, I guess you can't argue with the facts on the maximum pps shorting system that looted us.

Be careful miners, there's reports the stats pages are eliminated after a week of inactivity, whether or not eligius still owes you money.

I'll be sure to edit the facts if eligius ever comes clean and pays out the money it borrowed (without permission). It's just wrong. . .
If you didn't take work from hundreds of miners then fail to pay us, I wouldn't need to spread the truth. . .

Please stop trying to spread FUD. As you admit, the pool acknowledges the correct unpaid balance of 6.31658302 BTC (which isn't "almost 7"-- where did you learn math?).

Was that around June 14th? Thats when the maximumpps shorting system was implemented.
maybe if you link to your stats page it will be easier to research, like this:
http://eligius.st/~artefact2/blocks/1QEkXwhhHbaBCfmEHY7bh8QNPVkFtorQkK
Now for that address, you can see the maximum pps shorting did it's job during these rounds:
1h2m   4s   3,338/145,196=   2.2990 %   0.29390580 BTC (should be 1.1495)
16m43s   854/39,560=   2.1587 %   0.07508482 BTC (1.07935)
3h22m34s   5,498/470,841=   1.1677 %   0.48443702 BTC (.58385)
1h38m18s   5,022/239,107=   2.1003 %   0.44257700 BTC (1.05015)
29m49s   1,578/72,605=   2.1734 %   0.13906552 BTC (1.0867)
1h23m24s   3,817/176,193=   2.1664 %   0.33638325 BTC (1.0832)
For a total shorting of around 4BTC which wasn't made up for (by even .01BTC) in the longer round below that awarded the expected amounts of 50 BTC * % contributed:
4h   34m   14s no reimbursement
1h   33m   52s no reimbursement   
4h   6m   41s no reimbursement
9h   33m   13s no reimbursement
3h   22m   34s no reimbursement
2h   9m   54s no reimbursement

Coupled with the almost 7 BTC that the pool acknowledges it owes him but presumably has not yet made plans to pay him, I can see why this miner left and never returned to eligius.

If you have any disagreement on the math, PLMK where my mistake was.

There's a reason why all the top hashers have been with eligius less than 1 week:
After someone screws you out of BTC, would you keep mining with them?
Hopefully he won't do it to the new users, but you've all been warned. . .

about a week ago i had a smaller reward than it probably should:
my shares: 28 total: 470,841 reward: 0.00246757 BTC block http://blockexplorer.com/block/00000000000004c59c645e133dc783c9efcc355165487b46b24cfe625f79b4f5
but 50 * (28 / 470 841) = 0.00297340291 so just 5/6 paid out

it's not much, but if it sums up...

Yeah, that's because of the extreme luck the pool is experiencing right now. I got 7 stale hashes in 15 minutes, before 200 blocks without incident (new DiabloMiner version, thanks Luke-Jr!).

When luck hits, it seems there are a lot more collisions resulting in stale hashes for those that are a bit too late in transmitting.

Ha! Just as I say that, the stale rate jumps to 12%!

I have been using guiminer+poclbm and consistently getting under 2% stale, currently at 0.8%. And this is on my blazing fast 768 kbps connection.

Thanks for the hint! I am actually using DiabloMiner, because I could never strangle the python (neither phoenix nor poclbm) and will update right away.

Try the bleeding-edge DiabloMiner (I don't know what version; Diablo just fixed it a few days ago) or my branch of poclbm, both of which have been made more robust to handle network issues (which should hopefully be much less with the big upgrade).

Yeah, this concerns me as well. Every time I look at my miner to check if it's doing ok, within minutes it shows a "timeout - can't connect" warning and about 8% of the found shares do never get to Eligius. That is also why my hashrate is under-reported. After the next payout I will give BTCGuild another try.

my stale here is the same as slush/btcmine... ~not much.

i have fairly solid connection (804GB data for june, upto 459GB for july so far, 7th is anniversary. 20Mbps/2Mbps down/up adsl2+annexM), maybe this helps?

Why is the share rejection rate of Eligius for me consistently worse than other pools with LP? I've seen Continuum, Bitcoin Pool, Eclipse, and even bitcoin.cz (which doesn't have LP) all do better than Eligius in this respect.

There was some issues earlier where stale shares were getting past pushpool and being reported as invalid blocks. Usually these would just show up as "stale" and "rejected" on the user's personal page. Other than that, I guess the network's had a lot of forking-lucky blocks lately.

The plan is to lower it to ~0.34 BTC with the upgrade.

Luke-Jr, with the price a lot higher now than it was when you formed eligius, it seems wise to just lower the automatic payout threshold to 0.1.  This would alleviate the complaint severity of you seemingly "holding" a relatively large amount of people's bitcoins whenever you have to do a server switch. Holding up to $15 for a week on an out-of-operation server is different than holding only $1.50 there.

Are all of these invalid blocks normal for most pools? How does that happen? I'm getting a bit confused - for a while there my "unpaid reward" was negative.

Hey GimEEE,

I'm not being a smart arse here, but I'm wondering if you realise how the score based system Luke Jr uses works? Ignore my post if you do, but I noticed in your post:
If you mean the EU server, this is how the score based system works - your shares decay over time, you get the same for longer rounds as shorter ones, and shares contributed at the start of the round are  worth less than those at the end (to try to reduce the value of pool hopping).

Also:


Max PPS ran on the US server for only very short period of time. And even if you did run on it for a while, you might see some short term reduction in payout the value of which you'll get back as soon as US is up.

Luke has been totally open about all this (although maybe not as clear as I'd like) and he has a long history here. I'd trust him to get you your coins if they are missing. If I've misunderstood your post, I apologise in advance.

I'm just saying, if you wanted me to loan or give you BTC you should have asked first.
I appreciate your honesty after the fact, but it doesn't change the situation that you have my coin and I never agreed to loan it to you.

If anyone wants the details on the us server pps shorting, I can compile the statistics, but it should be the same for everyone else who used us server those last few days. In fact if someone thinks they didn't get shorted while the pps was in effect, give me your address and I'll show you how you did get shorted.

EDIT: #3 is referring to the us "maximumpps" reward shorting system implemented over June 13th-16th