Abortion should be banned. - page 5.

o_e_l_e_o

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Quote from: Gyfts on September 03, 2021, 01:11:39 PM

Again, viability does not define human life. Viability refers to chance of survival.

And humans with a 0% chance of survival due to lack of higher brain function are both medically and legally dead.

Quote from: Gyfts on September 03, 2021, 01:11:39 PM

The start of human life begins at the formation of a zygote.

A zygote is no more a human life than a skin cell.

Quote from: Gyfts on September 03, 2021, 01:11:39 PM

Do we consider living to be sentient or conscious? If that were the case, that means we are are no longer alive while sleeping?

You don't need to be conscious, but you need to have the capacity for consciousness. Adults without the capacity for consciousness are declared dead. Fetuses without the capacity for consciousness are not yet a life.

Gyfts

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Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on September 03, 2021, 12:38:26 PM

Quote from: Gyfts on September 03, 2021, 10:59:52 AM

Is someone on a ventilator not human because they are not viable with advanced medical equipment?

If someone on a ventilator still has higher brain function and still has a possibility of survival, then that person will receive full medical treatment.
If someone on a ventilator has been declared brain dead, then that is no longer a viable life (despite their heartbeat) and will have medical treatment withdrawn.

If a fetus has higher brain function and has a possibility of survival when they are born, then they will receive full medical treatment.
If a fetus has no higher brain function and will not survive even with advanced medical equipment, then it is not a viable life.

Quote from: Gyfts on September 03, 2021, 10:59:52 AM

Life starts at conception, not at viability.

Living cells start at conception. A human life, by definition, cannot start until there is enough brain development to sustain consciousness, which is around 26 weeks.

Again, viability does not define human life. Viability refers to chance of survival.

The start of human life begins at the formation of a zygote.

What you might define as "living" begins a philosophical discussion, not a scientific one, so there are reasonable disagreements and subjective interpretation.

Do we consider living to be sentient or conscious? If that were the case, that means we are are no longer alive while sleeping?

A human life is still human life even if it is not sustainable without the mother's womb. Abortion is ending human life.

o_e_l_e_o

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Quote from: Gyfts on September 03, 2021, 10:59:52 AM

Is someone on a ventilator not human because they are not viable with advanced medical equipment?

If someone on a ventilator still has higher brain function and still has a possibility of survival, then that person will receive full medical treatment.
If someone on a ventilator has been declared brain dead, then that is no longer a viable life (despite their heartbeat) and will have medical treatment withdrawn.

If a fetus has higher brain function and has a possibility of survival when they are born, then they will receive full medical treatment.
If a fetus has no higher brain function and will not survive even with advanced medical equipment, then it is not a viable life.

Quote from: Gyfts on September 03, 2021, 10:59:52 AM

Life starts at conception, not at viability.

Living cells start at conception. A human life, by definition, cannot start until there is enough brain development to sustain consciousness, which is around 26 weeks.

Gyfts

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Don't play dumber than you are. Google 'baby viability'.

Abortions until viability should be decided by women. Period.

Women's rights to medical procedures trump your wants over her body.

Well if Google says so, it must be true! You have holes in your logic - viability does not define a human, that's the point.

Is someone on a ventilator not human because they are not viable with advanced medical equipment? Why bother saving anyone's life in the hospital if their life is dependent on medical equipment to bring them back to viability? Why would it be a tragedy if someone were to die in their sleep, not knowing they would have ever lived. It's because they would have missed out on the experiences of life.

Life starts at conception, not at viability. Abortion after the fetus is developed is cruel. I am not against outlawing abortion, it's celebration in modern times though is disgusting.

o_e_l_e_o

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Quote from: Gyfts on September 02, 2021, 06:33:08 PM

And why viability? What about when the fetus can detect pain, or has a heart beat?

The limit of viability is around 24 weeks. The nervous system developments necessary for feeling pain do not occur until the 26th week.

There are people living without a heartbeat through Ventricular Assist Devices, and there are hearts beating away inside brain dead people. A heartbeat is a poor indicator of a viable life.

Quote from: ?? on ??

Women's rights to medical procedures trump your wants over her body.

QFT.

Gyfts

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: Moreforless on August 12, 2021, 10:13:40 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: Koffi13 on May 20, 2020, 02:29:10 PM

what's your take on that?

Should heart bypass surgeries be banned?

How about root canal procedures?

Abortion is a medical procedure.

Banning medical procedures is immoral.

No abortion refers to induced abortions. Wrong, any medical procedure to end human life is immoral. All abortions should be banned to have higher divisions of labor. I refer to this paper- https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/padr.12085,https://www.redalyc.org/journal/413/41345703009/html/, and the Ultimate Resource by Julian Simon. Less people-economic slowdown. More people - more growth. However, I don't think governments should give incentives to people to have more children. Their only job in my view is to defend life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness in that order.

You got it wrong. More people means more pollution. Having fewer people is better for everyone.

As for abortions, men should have no say what a woman can do with HER BODY.

Abortions until viability should be allowed, period.

People who cannot get pregnant should have no say on the matter.

So you should kill unborn children for the environment, then? Surely there is a better way than murdering the human population in order to be more greener.

And define "viability". At what exact point does a fetus become viable? The line is blurry. And why viability? What about when the fetus can detect pain, or has a heart beat?

Say the pro-abortion crowd defines an unborn child as just a clump of cells (they do, but for the sake of argument, suppose). At 9 months post conception, the moment before birth where abortion is apparently okay, what exactly is that "thing" that originates from the uterus? Is it still just a clump of cells? If it is considering a human being, then why should other human beings (aka men) not have a say in the matter?

Gases

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Don't take the most precious life as a joke. Life does not allow blasphemy, and resolutely oppose abortion

mu_enrico

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People should not base this decision on wants, but on health/safety. IMO human rights, the rights to live, starts when human formed as fetus. I think the fetus prefers to be alive than die if they can talk. But if the pregnancy is dangerous for the mother, the mother can choose to abort the baby since she also has the rights to live.

ifarted

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It is right to have the abbortion banned. It's very inhumane to those people who chose to kill their own child in their womb to avoid embarassment. People need to be responsible for their own doings. Having abbortion is just so wrong. The child has nothing to do with their mother's mistakes.

Most of the teenagers who are pregnant tends to be tempted from this abbortion because they are afraid of the consequences that they were about to bear and this is the problem that our society faces.

Abbortion being banned is good for the community and the society. Things like this should be prohibited.

Natsuu

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Quote from: rajakulam on August 22, 2021, 01:37:39 PM

Quote from: Koffi13 on May 20, 2020, 02:29:10 PM

what's your take on that?

Acts like this should be prohibited, because it is the same as killing someone without any wrongdoing and this is a very heinous act in my opinion, such an act should be punished according to the regulations laid down in a country, in this case it has become a habit for teenagers who are lovesick

I will give you some scenario choices:

Would you rather...

a) live in a household without a father, and a mother who don't accept you as her child because you were born from a "mistake", and become a homeless as your mother leaves you in the slum?
b) Live in a household with a family who degrades you and blames you as the reason for why they're in such a dire and poor situation?
c) Die not knowingly anything as you are just a growing zygote that don't have any senses.

rajakulam

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Quote from: Koffi13 on May 20, 2020, 02:29:10 PM

what's your take on that?

Acts like this should be prohibited, because it is the same as killing someone without any wrongdoing and this is a very heinous act in my opinion, such an act should be punished according to the regulations laid down in a country, in this case it has become a habit for teenagers who are lovesick

Natsuu

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Quote from: franky1 on August 17, 2021, 05:49:41 PM

until a biological mass can survive independently.. its not 'living'
(no independent breath or experience or voice)

its the same as the question
is turning off a life support machine of a brain dead relative at families consent immoral?

a fetus is dependant on the mother. a mother is the life support
its a question which the mother and only the mother gets to decide.
it is her responsibility and her decision what happens with her biology

once a fetus gets to the third trimester where if it was birthed early it could independently survive..
thats where abortion should not occur.

but before that point of possible independence.. its the decision of the mother.. not men. not politicians

And not even the society, in this current era, the SOCIETY is the one determining what is good and bad. And society is not a single entity that has single decision to decide if something is good or bad, but instead a group of individuals that have a strong support towards what they believe as the good or bad. And this thread shows how it is separated.

There are good points in both side, but removing religion in the arguments, and the other side is now in void

realcrypto

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Abortion is killing a baby but there are some exceptional cases that makes it the only option to make the mother survive or avert an unforgettable incidence like rape. A child gotten from a rape by an unknown person needs to be aborted.

OgNasty

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Quote from: Koffi13 on May 20, 2020, 02:29:10 PM

what's your take on that?

People should be able to do what they want with their own bodies so long as it doesn’t encroach on anyone else. Unfortunately in the abortion scenario the child is unable to make decisions regarding it’s own body and thus is at the mercy of it’s parent. Whether or not it is ethical is one question, but banning abortion, especially in cases such as rape, seems wrong to me. Freedom of choice is important.

Lordhermes

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Quote from: Doan9269 on August 19, 2021, 01:13:06 AM

Its inhumane @ some point but it shouldn't be banned depending on the situation one find herself for a raped victim its not advisable for her to keep such mess because the shame & trauma would be unbearable and it can't be over emphasized.. For teens it should be banned completely.

I don't agree with you on this one that abortion should be banned, because in some countries where the population is high,and the economy is unstable to be able to feed the growing population,it will put crime on the increase.
Imagine if a country is 2000000 in population,and the number of female in that country is 1.4 million,out of that,700 thousand are pregnant,don't you see that there is population problem in that country already? What will they eat?because the economy is bad.Therefore,abortion is a thing that must be among human to reduse the population of human.
And most children born by youths are mostly bastards.They grow up to become nuisance in the society because there are no father's to give them fatherly care.

Doan9269

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Its inhumane @ some point but it shouldn't be banned depending on the situation one find herself for a raped victim its not advisable for her to keep such mess because the shame & trauma would be unbearable and it can't be over emphasized.. For teens it should be banned completely.

Rockstarguy

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God is great

I'm not a supporter or promoter of abortion. We don't really know situation what people go through to commit abortion. People go into it avoid problems in the future, it could be how to bring the baby up which they may not be ready at the moment, also financial problem.

Zedpastin

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Quote from: blackened515 on August 16, 2021, 02:12:27 PM

Abortion can never be a good thing to do. I understand that that some women get rapes and if it leads to them getting pregnant, they consider abortion as the only option. But there are disadvantages of abortion which involves damage of the womb, it can even lead to death. Although, is illegal, but many pregnant women who are not ready to have a baby still terminates their pregnancies.

I do no think it causes damage to the womb but if it does I think it is down to the person having the abortion weather they accept that they could damage the womb. Not every one wants children and the womb is not essential if you do not want children and if it is your womb and you do not care if you damage it because you do not want to use it why should that stop them from having a abortion?

syedakhlaque

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Abortion is the killing of humanity. Any religion of the world and civilized society allows it. It is illegal, immoral, and human humility. It caused many death and complexities. No civilized society can bear this kind of cruelty with women. It is against the rights of women. Civil society and human right organization should take notice and ban it. Although today's society is a society of men but regarding the rights of women, they should care and take steps for its prevention.

franky1

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until a biological mass can survive independently.. its not 'living'
(no independent breath or experience or voice)

its the same as the question
is turning off a life support machine of a brain dead relative at families consent immoral?

a fetus is dependant on the mother. a mother is the life support
its a question which the mother and only the mother gets to decide.
it is her responsibility and her decision what happens with her biology

once a fetus gets to the third trimester where if it was birthed early it could independently survive..
thats where abortion should not occur.

but before that point of possible independence.. its the decision of the mother.. not men. not politicians

Topic: Abortion should be banned. - page 5. (Read 2119 times)