[ActiveMining] The Official Active Mining Discussion Thread - page 57.

EskimoBob

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Quote from: Stuartuk on September 07, 2013, 06:45:45 PM

Quote from: EskimoBob on September 07, 2013, 06:29:42 PM

Quote from: Stuartuk on September 07, 2013, 05:47:13 PM

Quote from: EskimoBob on September 07, 2013, 03:39:15 PM

Currently Actm has 9972881 shares outstanding (btct 3074084+ bitfunder 6898797)
So, this is 9972881*0.0040=39891,524*BTC:USD or 117.

39892*117=4 667 364 USD

to make 4 667 364 USD profit (after all the expenses), how many units they need to sell in a year?

Utterly flawed. We are not paid divs in USD are we? We are paid in btc.
The divs will come from mining not hardware sales.

We will also be selling chips not just rigs.

buy more shares!

I would say don't publish rubbish Maths on here and try to pass it off at accurate when it's ill thought out fiction.

dear moron, can you read bold italic text?

Now, lets do the math together:

9972881*0.0040=39891.524 - Is this correct? (outstanding shares times price at the time of calculation) = total in BTC

39891.524*117=4667308.308 USD (I replaced "," with "." so moronzero can understand it too)
Is this correct calculation?

What is this mysterious 117, you may ask? This is BTC:USD exchange rate.

Why did I use USD? Because selling shit in real world (even for BTC) USD and/or EUR exchange rates will define the price in BTC. Not the other way around.
So, BTC is irrelevant in this calculation because we have no idea, what the BTC:EUR or USD will be in the future. What we do know, is the price in USD for the hardware as of now. What the profit margin is? I have no idea and this was just a speculation. I bet it's not 40% so the numbers have to be way bigger.
Is this too fkn complicated for you comprehend?

BTW, feel free to subtract the mining profits and reduce the hardware (includes chips) sales numbers accordingly.

Quote from: Stuartuk on September 07, 2013, 06:59:07 PM

Quote from: EskimoBob on September 07, 2013, 06:49:23 PM

Please elaborate on "rubbish Maths" and "ill thought out fiction" or just fuck off, as asked previously.

No problem my friend, I will repeat it for you.

We will be paid divs in btc from mining - probablly 80-90% will come from mining and possibly 100% if sales are put into more ACtM miners for the bat cave.

You are working out divs from USD sales of mining rigs and assuming ACtM will need to sell 4.5Mill worth of mining rigs to pay full divs which is utterly incorrect, made up fiction - divs come from mining not sales.

We also sellchips which you have totally ignored to suit your fictionalized version of reality.

Now if you don't understand something because you are slow or had a few beers that's fine but you don't need to tell people to commit suicide or F-off do you?

At what price are those chips sold? How many USD did it cost?
BTW, I am not your friend

If you believe that "probablly 80-90% will come from mining and possibly 100%" we are in serious trouble. You can buy more shares... obviously.

zumzero

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Quote from: EskimoBob on September 07, 2013, 06:45:01 PM

and just for lulz, to morns like UKDuck and zumzero and the rest.

"ActiveMining is a virtual identity totally owned by the Active Mining Corporation (Belize) that represents both itself and its profits. ActiveMining's business includes cryptocoin mining and sales of self-built ASIC devices through its wholly owned subsidiary Virtual Mining Corporation (VMC)."

Maybe you really need to go to fist page and read (and try to understand what you are reading), what you are actually cheering for.

I like ActiveMining and I hope they do well but idiots like you and the rest of your lot, really need to start thinking about group suicide.
I hope none of you morons have any children. Please think about removing yourself permanently from the gene pool.
Thank you for caring about the future of human race.
And now, please fuck off for good! Kiss

How dare you!

Stuartuk

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Activity: 266

Merit: 250

Quote from: radiumsoup on September 07, 2013, 06:19:36 PM

Quote from: Ytterbium on September 07, 2013, 06:11:16 PM

Quote from: Stuartuk on September 07, 2013, 10:38:12 AM

Quote from: carpetbagger on September 07, 2013, 09:40:16 AM

I own enough to express my disappointment at how things have progressed, zumzero.

EDIT- I hope the Fujitsu foundry know what they are doing when they knock out our chips - but has any one ever heard of these people? another disappointing aspect of this so called progress. Fujit-WHO more like.

You're asking if anyone has anyone heard of Fujitsu? Seriously?

I mean, I didn't know they did contract IC fabrication but it's not exactly surprising.

I'm afraid Ytterbuim is probably still scratching his head.

EDIT - this link is for you Ytter, how you can put yourself forward as a self-confirmed ACtM expert yet not have looked through the eASIC website is just laughable:

http://www.easic.com/migration-to-cell-based-asic/easic-ecosystem/

Stuartuk

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Quote from: EskimoBob on September 07, 2013, 06:49:23 PM

Please elaborate on "rubbish Maths" and "ill thought out fiction" or just fuck off, as asked previously.

No problem my friend, I will repeat it for you.

We will be paid divs in btc from mining - probablly 80-90% will come from mining and possibly 100% if sales are put into more ACtM miners for the bat cave.

You are working out divs from USD sales of mining rigs and assuming ACtM will need to sell 4.5Mill worth of mining rigs to pay full divs which is utterly incorrect, made up fiction - divs come from mining not sales.

We also sellchips which you have totally ignored to suit your fictionalized version of reality.

Now if you don't understand something because you are slow or had a few beers that's fine but you don't need to tell people to commit suicide or F-off do you?

twentyseventy

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Quote from: Vycid on September 07, 2013, 05:48:50 PM

Is there any way to move shares between Bitfunder and BTCT (without selling)?

Wait, the ultra-genius Vycid, who can foretell the fortunes of ASICMiner, doesn't even know if you can transfer shares between exchanges?

Stuartuk

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Activity: 266

Merit: 250

Quote from: EskimoBob on September 07, 2013, 06:45:01 PM

and just for lulz, to morns like UKDuck and zumzero and the rest.

"ActiveMining is a virtual identity totally owned by the Active Mining Corporation (Belize) that represents both itself and its profits. ActiveMining's business includes cryptocoin mining and sales of self-built ASIC devices through its wholly owned subsidiary Virtual Mining Corporation (VMC)."

Maybe you really need to go to fist page and read (and try to understand what you are reading), what you are actually cheering for.

I like ActiveMining and I hope they do well but idiots like you and the rest of your lot, really need to start thinking about group suicide.
I hope none of you morons have any children. Please think about removing yourself permanently from the gene pool.
Thank you for caring about the future of human race.
And now, please fuck off for good! Kiss

Have you been drinking alcohol tonight because this post makes absolutely no sense and the quote doesn't seem to refer to anything that's been discussed over the past few pages.

What are you trying to say?

You've come out with some crap made up Maths, I told you that and showed you your school-boy error and you then decided to tell people to kill themselves and F-Off. Are you 14 years old or something?

EskimoBob

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Quote from: Stuartuk on September 07, 2013, 06:45:45 PM

Quote from: EskimoBob on September 07, 2013, 06:29:42 PM

Quote from: Stuartuk on September 07, 2013, 05:47:13 PM

Quote from: EskimoBob on September 07, 2013, 03:39:15 PM

Currently Actm has 9972881 shares outstanding (btct 3074084+ bitfunder 6898797)
So, this is 9972881*0.0040=39891,524*BTC:USD or 117.

39892*117=4 667 364 USD

to make 4 667 364 USD profit (after all the expenses), how many units they need to sell in a year?

Utterly flawed. We are not paid divs in USD are we? We are paid in btc.
The divs will come from mining not hardware sales.

We will also be selling chips not just rigs.

buy more shares!

I would say don't publish rubbish Maths on here and try to pass it off at accurate when it's ill thought out fiction.

Please elaborate on "rubbish Maths" and "ill thought out fiction" or just fuck off, as asked previously.

Stuartuk

sr. member

Activity: 266

Merit: 250

Quote from: EskimoBob on September 07, 2013, 06:29:42 PM

Quote from: Stuartuk on September 07, 2013, 05:47:13 PM

Quote from: EskimoBob on September 07, 2013, 03:39:15 PM

Currently Actm has 9972881 shares outstanding (btct 3074084+ bitfunder 6898797)
So, this is 9972881*0.0040=39891,524*BTC:USD or 117.

39892*117=4 667 364 USD

to make 4 667 364 USD profit (after all the expenses), how many units they need to sell in a year?

Utterly flawed. We are not paid divs in USD are we? We are paid in btc.
The divs will come from mining not hardware sales.

We will also be selling chips not just rigs.

buy more shares!

I would say don't publish rubbish Maths on here and try to pass it off at accurate when it's ill thought out fiction.

EskimoBob

legendary

Activity: 910

Merit: 1000

Quality Printing Services by Federal Reserve Bank

and just for lulz, to morns like UKDuck and zumzero and the rest.

"ActiveMining is a virtual identity totally owned by the Active Mining Corporation (Belize) that represents both itself and its profits. ActiveMining's business includes cryptocoin mining and sales of self-built ASIC devices through its wholly owned subsidiary Virtual Mining Corporation (VMC)."

Maybe you really need to go to fist page and read (and try to understand what you are reading), what you are actually cheering for.

I like ActiveMining and I hope they do well but idiots like you and the rest of your lot, really need to start thinking about group suicide.
I hope none of you morons have any children. Please think about removing yourself permanently from the gene pool.
Thank you for caring about the future of human race.
And now, please fuck off for good! Kiss

LorenzoMoney

sr. member

Activity: 335

Merit: 250

$5000.....at .0030 and BTC at $130, that is a waste of 12820 shares.
If the fool who paid that had merely stayed put, he could have had nearly 13000 shares more.

Since it was done way back when BTC was about $100, he wasted about a potential 16666 shares.

I suppose he will reply to this insulting and me and and making some clever comment proving what a wise decision it was.

Quote from: zumzero on September 07, 2013, 05:52:10 PM

Quote from: Vycid on September 07, 2013, 05:48:50 PM

Is there any way to move shares between Bitfunder and BTCT (without selling)?

It's been done once publicly through Ken and a fee of $5000 was paid to transfer 120,000 shares.

EskimoBob

legendary

Activity: 910

Merit: 1000

Quality Printing Services by Federal Reserve Bank

Quote from: Stuartuk on September 07, 2013, 05:47:13 PM

Quote from: EskimoBob on September 07, 2013, 03:39:15 PM

Currently Actm has 9972881 shares outstanding (btct 3074084+ bitfunder 6898797)
So, this is 9972881*0.0040=39891,524*BTC:USD or 117.

39892*117=4 667 364 USD

to make 4 667 364 USD profit (after all the expenses), how many units they need to sell in a year?

Utterly flawed. We are not paid divs in USD are we? We are paid in btc.
The divs will come from mining not hardware sales.

We will also be selling chips not just rigs.

buy more shares!

radiumsoup

sr. member

Activity: 356

Merit: 255

Quote from: Ytterbium on September 07, 2013, 06:11:16 PM

Quote from: Stuartuk on September 07, 2013, 10:38:12 AM

Quote from: carpetbagger on September 07, 2013, 09:40:16 AM

I own enough to express my disappointment at how things have progressed, zumzero.

EDIT- I hope the Fujitsu foundry know what they are doing when they knock out our chips - but has any one ever heard of these people? another disappointing aspect of this so called progress. Fujit-WHO more like.

You're asking if anyone has anyone heard of Fujitsu? Seriously?

I mean, I didn't know they did contract IC fabrication but it's not exactly surprising.

Ytterbium

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Activity: 238

Merit: 100

Quote from: Stuartuk on September 07, 2013, 10:38:12 AM

Quote from: carpetbagger on September 07, 2013, 09:40:16 AM

I own enough to express my disappointment at how things have progressed, zumzero.

EDIT- I hope the Fujitsu foundry know what they are doing when they knock out our chips - but has any one ever heard of these people? another disappointing aspect of this so called progress. Fujit-WHO more like.

You're asking if anyone has anyone heard of Fujitsu? Seriously?

I mean, I didn't know they did contract IC fabrication but it's not exactly surprising.

Vigil

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Activity: 378

Merit: 250

Quote

The quote is correct and I am correct: "arbitrage /ˈɑrbɨtrɑːʒ/ is the practice of taking advantage of a price difference between two or more markets" - that is exactly happening. You are trying to redefine the word. I won't draw this out any longer. If you think that taking advantage of a price difference between BF and BTCT isn't arbitrage, reread the definition given. It will sink it.

Cheers.

[/quote]
You aren't. The advantage comes in to play buy purchasing in one and selling in the other. what advantage is there to buying more shares but each share is worth less and not being able to take advantage of the increased price at the other exchange? You have to take advantage of a price difference in two or more markets, but in what you are doing you don't even involve the other market, you just buy in one market and the other isn't involved. BF and BTCT are completely isolated as far as markets go.

From Investopedia:

Quote

Definition of 'Arbitrage' The simultaneous purchase and sale of an asset in order to profit from a difference in the price. It is a trade that profits by exploiting price differences of identical or similar financial instruments, on different markets or in different forms. Arbitrage exists as a result of market inefficiencies; it provides a mechanism to ensure prices do not deviate substantially from fair value for long periods of time.

Quote

ar·bi·trage (ärb-träzh)
n.
The purchase of securities on one market for immediate resale on another market in order to profit from a price discrepancy.
intr.v. ar·bi·traged, ar·bi·trag·ing, ar·bi·trag·es
To be involved in arbitrage.
[Middle English, arbitration, from Old French, from arbitrer, to judge, from Latin arbitrr, to give judgment; see arbitrate.]

arbitrage [ˈɑːbɪˌtrɑːʒ ˈɑːbɪtrɪdʒ]
n
(Economics, Accounting & Finance / Banking & Finance) Finance
a. the purchase of currencies, securities, or commodities in one market for immediate resale in others in order to profit from unequal prices
b. (as modifier) arbitrage operations
[from French, from arbitrer to arbitrate]
arbitrageur [ˌɑːbɪtræˈʒɜː] n
ar•bi•trage (ˈɑr bɪˌtrɑʒ)

n., v. -traged, -trag•ing. n.
1. the simultaneous sale of a security or commodity in different markets to profit from unequal prices.
v.i.
2. to engage in arbitrage.
[1470–80; < Middle French,
arbitrage
the business of buying and selling securities, curreneies, and commodities on an international scale so as to take advantage of differences in rates of exchange and prices. — arbitrager, arbitrageur, n.
See also: Money

No one claims the definition you do. You are taking the wikipedia statement out of context and making up your own definition.

zumzero

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Quote from: Vycid on September 07, 2013, 05:48:50 PM

Is there any way to move shares between Bitfunder and BTCT (without selling)?

It's been done once publicly through Ken and a fee of $5000 was paid to transfer 120,000 shares.

kleeck

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Activity: 532

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https://karatcoin.co

Quote from: Vigil on September 07, 2013, 04:42:01 PM

Quote from: kleeck on September 07, 2013, 02:49:25 PM

Quote from: Vigil on September 07, 2013, 02:06:13 PM

Quote from: thefunkybits on September 07, 2013, 11:54:02 AM

Quote from: drawingthesun on September 07, 2013, 12:20:57 AM

Quote from: thefunkybits on September 06, 2013, 11:49:35 PM

Quote from: Vigil on September 06, 2013, 06:58:07 PM

Allow inter-exchange share transfers -> BTCT and BF. What argument is there against this?

Will this ever be possible??

Im arbing all my shares and picking up a few extra thousand for free

How?

Sell 1000 Shares on BTCT.
Buy 1300 Shares on Bitfunder.

Grin

That is not arbitrage.

Arbitrage would be buying 1300 shares on BitFunder at say .0025 and selling them on BTCT for .003. Then sending the bitcoins you earned from selling on BTCT back to Bitfunder to buy 1600 shares at .0025 and then selling those shares on BTCT again. You do this until the price difference no longer allows a profit.

Arbitrage is not simply the act of buying more shares on one exchange than you had on another. You are missing an entire step in the process, i.e., the transfer of the cheaper "good" over to the exchange which is paying more to make the sale.

"In economics and finance, arbitrage /ˈɑrbɨtrɑːʒ/ is the practice of taking advantage of a price difference between two or more markets: striking a combination of matching deals that capitalize upon the imbalance, the profit being the difference between the market prices. When used by academics, an arbitrage is a transaction that involves no negative cash flow at any probabilistic or temporal state and a positive cash flow in at least one state; in simple terms, it is the possibility of a risk-free profit at zero cost. For instance, an arbitrage is present when there is the opportunity to instantaneously buy low and sell high."

There is no official mechanism for arbitrage so what people are calling arbitrage in the Bitcoin ecosystem is as close as we currently can get to what fiat institutions have. Further, the only inaccuracy I can see in calling what is described here arbitrage is that it is not instant or guaranteed. It was highly unlikely that the 35% spread yesterday would close before my coin transferred, though.

All this to say that arbitrage does not need to be cyclical to be called "arbitrage". It can be one trade from one exchange to the other that nets you a return due to the price spread.

TL;DR This IS arbitrage.

The definition you quoted is correct, your statements are incorrect. The exchange between the markets needs to take place. There is no way to guarantee that the price on each exchange will at some point be equivalent because they are isolated markets (there is no way to transfer goods from one to the other), thus there is no way to know that purchasing more shares in one is better than purchasing less in the other.

Arbitrage initially existed between MtGox and BTC-e, but no longer since BitInstant is down and all the withdrawal problems at MtGox. You can occasionally do arbitrage between BTC-e and Vircurex and that other little exchange.

The quote is correct and I am correct: "arbitrage /ˈɑrbɨtrɑːʒ/ is the practice of taking advantage of a price difference between two or more markets" - that is exactly happening. You are trying to redefine the word. I won't draw this out any longer. If you think that taking advantage of a price difference between BF and BTCT isn't arbitrage, reread the definition given. It will sink it.

Cheers.

Quote from: Vycid on September 07, 2013, 05:48:50 PM

Is there any way to move shares between Bitfunder and BTCT (without selling)?

Not currently.

Vycid

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♫ the AM bear who cares ♫

Is there any way to move shares between Bitfunder and BTCT (without selling)?

Stuartuk

sr. member

Activity: 266

Merit: 250

Quote from: EskimoBob on September 07, 2013, 03:39:15 PM

Currently Actm has 9972881 shares outstanding (btct 3074084+ bitfunder 6898797)
So, this is 9972881*0.0040=39891,524*BTC:USD or 117.

39892*117=4 667 364 USD

to make 4 667 364 USD profit (after all the expenses), how many units they need to sell in a year?

Utterly flawed. We are not paid divs in USD are we? We are paid in btc.
The divs will come from mining not hardware sales.

We will also be selling chips not just rigs.

zumzero

hero member

Activity: 602

Merit: 500

myBitcoin.Garden

Quote from: EskimoBob on September 07, 2013, 03:39:15 PM

Not sure, wtf you guys are whining about any more? (except the shitty PR and lack of reporting)

Only question now, is can ActiveMining pull of the following: "52 week total earnings" divided by "number of shares outstanding" is equal or grater than "current share price"
In real world, this is usually 3-5 years earnings but in BTC reality, with a serious case of ADD, even 52 weeks is unimaginable long time for most noobs

Currently Actm has 9972881 shares outstanding (btct 3074084+ bitfunder 6898797)
So, this is 9972881*0.0040=39891,524*BTC:USD or 117.

39892*117=4 667 364 USD

to make 4 667 364 USD profit (after all the expenses), how many units they need to sell in a year?

Where the hell did you learn arithmetic!!!???

That jumbled up mess means absolutely nothing to anyone but yourself!

Start again and at least use a numerical format that people can understand.

0/10

zumzero

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Activity: 602

Merit: 500

myBitcoin.Garden

Thanks for the reminder, I knew there was something I was to do!

Divs are in, better buy more..

Topic: [ActiveMining] The Official Active Mining Discussion Thread - page 57. (Read 479317 times)