Topic: [ActiveMining] The Official Active Mining Discussion Thread - page 59. (Read 479317 times)
September 07, 2013, 04:01:23 AM
Thanks.
September 07, 2013, 03:32:50 AM
Slightly off topic, but does anyone know if you can tender/transfer shares from one person to another on btct.co in the same way you can on BF?
Yes, you can do an internal transfer from one account to another under > portfolio > my assets.
September 07, 2013, 02:59:34 AM
Slightly off topic, but does anyone know if you can tender/transfer shares from one person to another on btct.co in the same way you can on BF?
September 07, 2013, 12:56:01 AM
I just don't see the point of moving shares unless it happens instantaneously. One can always sell shares on btct, transfer the bitcoins to bitfunder and pick up some cheap shares. And I actually do not understand why this is not happening. For long-term investors this seems to be a good strategy.
Why sell out on a market that has more chance of allowing you to fill your large orders quickly?
Think about it, the higher price is there for a reason. Liquidity is one of the most important and overlooked things here. Some of us hold much more than 10 bitcoins worth of shares. I had stock in another company on Bitfunder and lost so much money because there is no liquidity. (This company is often higher ranked on bitfunder for transaction volume that active mining on bitfunder too)
My conclusion is if you have a large amount of shares and you want to be able to flip them on news or whatever, BTCT is the way to go for now.
So the lower price on bitfunder is only a plus if you can one day transfer them. For now the price reflects the situation. That being on bitfunder is a negative for trading your shares.
I was talking about long-term investors, not speculators.
September 07, 2013, 12:53:55 AM
Allow inter-exchange share transfers -> BTCT and BF. What argument is there against this?
Will this ever be possible??
Im arbing all my shares and picking up a few extra thousand for free
How?
What is arbitrage? The Khan Academy explains.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AuCH7fHZsZ4
September 07, 2013, 12:51:50 AM
The ripple protocol would be perfect for moving shares between exchanges. In fact, you wouldn't even need exchanges, it could all be done over P2P, like with bitcoin. Ripple works with a "central issuer", unlike bitcoin (I think), but with a stock, you obviously have to have a central issuer (the company).
September 07, 2013, 12:39:11 AM
1. Theoretically stocks transfer is possible via Colored BitcoinX protocol. Today no exchange supports it.
2. The easiest way for us is for the company to appoint several arbitrageurs.
Basically I can do the day to day arbitration according to my free time, assuming the company is willing to transfer my shares from one exchange to the next.
The company can do this now, because they can destroy shares on one exchange and create on another.
Basically I will transfer half of my shares to ken on BF, then he would have to destroy them on BF and create on BTCT.
3. The 50% liquidity premium is growing, and without the company (Ken) acting, it may not close.
-Technologov
2. The easiest way for us is for the company to appoint several arbitrageurs.
Basically I can do the day to day arbitration according to my free time, assuming the company is willing to transfer my shares from one exchange to the next.
The company can do this now, because they can destroy shares on one exchange and create on another.
Basically I will transfer half of my shares to ken on BF, then he would have to destroy them on BF and create on BTCT.
3. The 50% liquidity premium is growing, and without the company (Ken) acting, it may not close.
-Technologov
September 07, 2013, 12:31:34 AM
Awwww... You just met you quota of bullshit posts. Unfortunate.
ActiveMining was suppossed to have 6TH online by now.
But since Avalon did not deliver it did not happen.
Also I find it interesting that network is 750TH and not 250TH as predicted in this chart.
But yeah that 6TH would just be temporary measure until Easic would deliver and company starts mining/selling.
September 07, 2013, 12:20:57 AM
Allow inter-exchange share transfers -> BTCT and BF. What argument is there against this?
Will this ever be possible??
Im arbing all my shares and picking up a few extra thousand for free
How?
September 07, 2013, 12:18:31 AM
What is a share, really? It is merely some sort of accounting notation in some file on an exchange. The reason why Bitcoin can be transferred is because everyone has access to the very same blockchain. In all probability, the way shares are recorded in BF is different from teh way shares and transactions are recorded on BTCT, unless they are using the exact same software. There is no common ledger for shares like there is for bitcoin.
For shares to be transferred from one exchange to the other, both exchanges must communicate to each other and use some protocol and that might not be trivial.
Why should the owners of two different exchanges spend their time and money to develop a protocol for transferring shares? How would it benefit either of them?
If they charged a fee for transferring shares, would you complain or would you guys accept that fee as part of the service provided by Ukyo and his BTCT counterpart?
Suppose they chraged a fee of .001% Would that be acceptable?
lazyness on the part of burnside and whoever runs bitfunder (I think i've heard the name Ukyo(?) or something?)
Keep in mind in order to do it they have to come up with an absolutely fool-proof security system with digital signatures, etc, otherwise all kinds of shenanigans could be played.
Why do you assume it should be the exchanges who create arbitrage mechanisms? They are in competition with each other, not to mention that very few related securities are actually run by the same entity on both exchanges.
In this case, the issuer on Bitfunder is the same as the pass through operator on BTCT, so it should be up to Ken to create this tool should he wish to help even out the pricing.
For shares to be transferred from one exchange to the other, both exchanges must communicate to each other and use some protocol and that might not be trivial.
Why should the owners of two different exchanges spend their time and money to develop a protocol for transferring shares? How would it benefit either of them?
If they charged a fee for transferring shares, would you complain or would you guys accept that fee as part of the service provided by Ukyo and his BTCT counterpart?
Suppose they chraged a fee of .001% Would that be acceptable?
Allow inter-exchange share transfers -> BTCT and BF. What argument is there against this?
lazyness on the part of burnside and whoever runs bitfunder (I think i've heard the name Ukyo(?) or something?)
Keep in mind in order to do it they have to come up with an absolutely fool-proof security system with digital signatures, etc, otherwise all kinds of shenanigans could be played.
Why do you assume it should be the exchanges who create arbitrage mechanisms? They are in competition with each other, not to mention that very few related securities are actually run by the same entity on both exchanges.
In this case, the issuer on Bitfunder is the same as the pass through operator on BTCT, so it should be up to Ken to create this tool should he wish to help even out the pricing.
September 07, 2013, 12:13:42 AM
Awwww... You just met you quota of bullshit posts. Unfortunate.
September 07, 2013, 12:09:19 AM
September 06, 2013, 11:49:35 PM
Allow inter-exchange share transfers -> BTCT and BF. What argument is there against this?
Will this ever be possible??
Im arbing all my shares and picking up a few extra thousand for free
September 06, 2013, 11:33:31 PM
I just don't see the point of moving shares unless it happens instantaneously. One can always sell shares on btct, transfer the bitcoins to bitfunder and pick up some cheap shares. And I actually do not understand why this is not happening. For long-term investors this seems to be a good strategy.
Why sell out on a market that has more chance of allowing you to fill your large orders quickly?
Think about it, the higher price is there for a reason. Liquidity is one of the most important and overlooked things here. Some of us hold much more than 10 bitcoins worth of shares. I had stock in another company on Bitfunder and lost so much money because there is no liquidity. (This company is often higher ranked on bitfunder for transaction volume that active mining on bitfunder too)
My conclusion is if you have a large amount of shares and you want to be able to flip them on news or whatever, BTCT is the way to go for now.
So the lower price on bitfunder is only a plus if you can one day transfer them. For now the price reflects the situation. That being on bitfunder is a negative for trading your shares.
September 06, 2013, 11:27:16 PM
Allow inter-exchange share transfers -> BTCT and BF. What argument is there against this?
lazyness on the part of burnside and whoever runs bitfunder (I think i've heard the name Ukyo(?) or something?)
Keep in mind in order to do it they have to come up with an absolutely fool-proof security system with digital signatures, etc, otherwise all kinds of shenanigans could be played.
Why do you assume it should be the exchanges who create arbitrage mechanisms? They are in competition with each other, not to mention that very few related securities are actually run by the same entity on both exchanges.
In this case, the issuer on Bitfunder is the same as the pass through operator on BTCT, so it should be up to Ken to create this tool should he wish to help even out the pricing.
Arbitrage cannot take place if the shares can't move - the entire point of arbitrage is that the "good" is being bought one place for cheap and sold at another for a higher price. Its possible that this could benefit both exchanges.
i agree - maybe a small fee could be leveraged and both companies wind up ahead and we wind up ahead.everybody wins.
September 06, 2013, 11:20:59 PM
I just don't see the point of moving shares unless it happens instantaneously. One can always sell shares on btct, transfer the bitcoins to bitfunder and pick up some cheap shares. And I actually do not understand why this is not happening. For long-term investors this seems to be a good strategy.
September 06, 2013, 11:06:02 PM
Bitfunder, BTC-TC Dividends paid [0.00000190/share]
September 06, 2013, 09:39:16 PM
Wouldn't arbitrage in the long run bring the prices to an equilibrium anyways? (Provided the ease of movement is the same with both securities.)
Quote
If it was possible to easily move shares from one exchange to another, then the equilibrium would be reached very quickly.
It really depends on ease of movement, a quick instant transfer would match both prices exactly. A slower movement like having to wait 6 hours would mean the prices would still fluctuate a little.
There are other factors such as fees and exchange "features" which would make some difference as well. It really depends on ease of movement, a quick instant transfer would match both prices exactly. A slower movement like having to wait 6 hours would mean the prices would still fluctuate a little.
September 06, 2013, 09:30:59 PM
Wouldn't arbitrage in the long run bring the prices to an equilibrium anyways? (Provided the ease of movement is the same with both securities.)
If it was possible to easily move shares from one exchange to another, then the equilibrium would be reached very quickly.
It really depends on ease of movement, a quick instant transfer would match both prices exactly. A slower movement like having to wait 6 hours would mean the prices would still fluctuate a little.
September 06, 2013, 09:15:03 PM
Wouldn't arbitrage in the long run bring the prices to an equilibrium anyways? (Provided the ease of movement is the same with both securities.)
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