[ActiveMining] The Official Active Mining Discussion Thread - page 58.

iCEBREAKER

legendary

Activity: 2156

Merit: 1072

Crypto is the separation of Power and State.

Quote from: ShawnP on September 07, 2013, 12:31:34 AM

Quote from: kleeck on September 07, 2013, 12:13:42 AM

Quote from: carpetbagger on September 07, 2013, 12:09:19 AM

Awwww... You just met you quota of bullshit posts. Unfortunate.

There is 0 BS in his post.
ActiveMining was suppossed to have 6TH online by now.
But since Avalon did not deliver it did not happen.
Also I find it interesting that network is 750TH and not 250TH as predicted in this chart.
But yeah that 6TH would just be temporary measure until Easic would deliver and company starts mining/selling.

Good luck deprogramming these ACTM cult members. They are utterly resistant to facts and logic.

"ACTM goes up? Better buy more!"
"ACTM goes down? Buy even more! Rah-rah-rah!"

^^^Is the mindset we're dealing with.

Vigil

sr. member

Activity: 378

Merit: 250

Quote from: kleeck on September 07, 2013, 02:49:25 PM

Quote from: Vigil on September 07, 2013, 02:06:13 PM

Quote from: thefunkybits on September 07, 2013, 11:54:02 AM

Quote from: drawingthesun on September 07, 2013, 12:20:57 AM

Quote from: thefunkybits on September 06, 2013, 11:49:35 PM

Quote from: Vigil on September 06, 2013, 06:58:07 PM

Allow inter-exchange share transfers -> BTCT and BF. What argument is there against this?

Will this ever be possible??

Im arbing all my shares and picking up a few extra thousand for free

How?

Sell 1000 Shares on BTCT.
Buy 1300 Shares on Bitfunder.

Grin

That is not arbitrage.

Arbitrage would be buying 1300 shares on BitFunder at say .0025 and selling them on BTCT for .003. Then sending the bitcoins you earned from selling on BTCT back to Bitfunder to buy 1600 shares at .0025 and then selling those shares on BTCT again. You do this until the price difference no longer allows a profit.

Arbitrage is not simply the act of buying more shares on one exchange than you had on another. You are missing an entire step in the process, i.e., the transfer of the cheaper "good" over to the exchange which is paying more to make the sale.

"In economics and finance, arbitrage /ˈɑrbɨtrɑːʒ/ is the practice of taking advantage of a price difference between two or more markets: striking a combination of matching deals that capitalize upon the imbalance, the profit being the difference between the market prices. When used by academics, an arbitrage is a transaction that involves no negative cash flow at any probabilistic or temporal state and a positive cash flow in at least one state; in simple terms, it is the possibility of a risk-free profit at zero cost. For instance, an arbitrage is present when there is the opportunity to instantaneously buy low and sell high."

There is no official mechanism for arbitrage so what people are calling arbitrage in the Bitcoin ecosystem is as close as we currently can get to what fiat institutions have. Further, the only inaccuracy I can see in calling what is described here arbitrage is that it is not instant or guaranteed. It was highly unlikely that the 35% spread yesterday would close before my coin transferred, though.

All this to say that arbitrage does not need to be cyclical to be called "arbitrage". It can be one trade from one exchange to the other that nets you a return due to the price spread.

TL;DR This IS arbitrage.

The definition you quoted is correct, your statements are incorrect. The exchange between the markets needs to take place. There is no way to guarantee that the price on each exchange will at some point be equivalent because they are isolated markets (there is no way to transfer goods from one to the other), thus there is no way to know that purchasing more shares in one is better than purchasing less in the other.

Arbitrage initially existed between MtGox and BTC-e, but no longer since BitInstant is down and all the withdrawal problems at MtGox. You can occasionally do arbitrage between BTC-e and Vircurex and that other little exchange.

EskimoBob

legendary

Activity: 910

Merit: 1000

Quality Printing Services by Federal Reserve Bank

I ran some numbers for fun, excluding possible profits form mining

Code:

Product Revenue profit Cost Markup % Cross margin Units sold Profit earn
Fast-Hash One Silver Edition 1774.29 709.716 1064.574 66.67% 40.00% 901 639454.116
Fast-Hash One Gold Edition 3704.05 1481.62 2222.43 66.67% 40.00% 700 1037134
Fast-Hash One Platinum Edition 5699.05 2279.62 3419.43 485 1105615.7

Fast-Hash-One Silver 64 GH/s 1299 519.6 779.4 66.67% 40.00% 901 468159.6
Fast-Hash-One Gold 128 GH/s 2499 999.6 1499.4 66.67% 40.00% 700 699720
Fast-Hash-One Platinum 256 GH/ 3699 1479.6 2219.4 66.67% 40.00% 485 717606
Total Profit: 4667689.416

This is total of 4172 units. Because nothing will happen before December, they have about 37 weeks to sell it all.
To produce 112.756 units per week is probably no big deal but can you actually sell all that hardware? This is 112.76 units every week, nonstop.
BTW, this is about 550 Thash of mining power. The whole network today is ticking at 692.909 Thash/s.

Quote

Margin Formulas/Calculations:

   The gross profit P is the difference between the cost to make a product C and the selling price or revenue R.
   P = R - C
   The mark up percentage M is the profit P divided by the cost C to make the product.
   M = P / C = ( R - C ) / C
   The gross margin percentage G is the profit P divided by the selling price or revenue R.
   G = P / R = ( R - C ) / R

EDIT: Some say that $1.50 per Gh is about right expense. It is hard to believe but updated calculations are here https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.3106707
Please ignore the raving lunatics like Stuartuk and zumzero in following pages. Yes, it is embarrassing indeed.

somestranger

hero member

Activity: 487

Merit: 500

Are You Shpongled?

Certainly quite a few units would have to be sold (this would require guessing how much they will cost in the future when network difficulty increases.. very difficult), but you also need to take into account the mining revenues which should be quite nice when we will get the chips at cost. I think at .003 we will definitely see a return on investment in a year from now.

EskimoBob

legendary

Activity: 910

Merit: 1000

Quality Printing Services by Federal Reserve Bank

Not sure, wtf you guys are whining about any more? (except the shitty PR and lack of reporting)

Only question now, is can ActiveMining pull of the following: "52 week total earnings" divided by "number of shares outstanding" is equal or grater than "current share price"
In real world, this is usually 3-5 years earnings but in BTC reality, with a serious case of ADD, even 52 weeks is unimaginable long time for most noobs

Currently Actm has 9972881 shares outstanding (btct 3074084+ bitfunder 6898797)
So, this is 9972881*0.0040=39891,524*BTC:USD or 117.

39892*117=4 667 364 USD

to make 4 667 364 USD profit (after all the expenses), how many units they need to sell in a year?

lenny_

legendary

Activity: 1036

Merit: 1000

DARKNETMARKETS.COM

Did any one tried to do Google reverse image search on their miner pictures? Any conclusions?

kleeck

hero member

Activity: 532

Merit: 500

https://karatcoin.co

Quote from: Vigil on September 07, 2013, 02:06:13 PM

Quote from: thefunkybits on September 07, 2013, 11:54:02 AM

Quote from: drawingthesun on September 07, 2013, 12:20:57 AM

Quote from: thefunkybits on September 06, 2013, 11:49:35 PM

Quote from: Vigil on September 06, 2013, 06:58:07 PM

Allow inter-exchange share transfers -> BTCT and BF. What argument is there against this?

Will this ever be possible??

Im arbing all my shares and picking up a few extra thousand for free

How?

Sell 1000 Shares on BTCT.
Buy 1300 Shares on Bitfunder.

Grin

That is not arbitrage.

Arbitrage would be buying 1300 shares on BitFunder at say .0025 and selling them on BTCT for .003. Then sending the bitcoins you earned from selling on BTCT back to Bitfunder to buy 1600 shares at .0025 and then selling those shares on BTCT again. You do this until the price difference no longer allows a profit.

Arbitrage is not simply the act of buying more shares on one exchange than you had on another. You are missing an entire step in the process, i.e., the transfer of the cheaper "good" over to the exchange which is paying more to make the sale.

"In economics and finance, arbitrage /ˈɑrbɨtrɑːʒ/ is the practice of taking advantage of a price difference between two or more markets: striking a combination of matching deals that capitalize upon the imbalance, the profit being the difference between the market prices. When used by academics, an arbitrage is a transaction that involves no negative cash flow at any probabilistic or temporal state and a positive cash flow in at least one state; in simple terms, it is the possibility of a risk-free profit at zero cost. For instance, an arbitrage is present when there is the opportunity to instantaneously buy low and sell high."

There is no official mechanism for arbitrage so what people are calling arbitrage in the Bitcoin ecosystem is as close as we currently can get to what fiat institutions have. Further, the only inaccuracy I can see in calling what is described here arbitrage is that it is not instant or guaranteed. It was highly unlikely that the 35% spread yesterday would close before my coin transferred, though.

All this to say that arbitrage does not need to be cyclical to be called "arbitrage". It can be one trade from one exchange to the other that nets you a return due to the price spread.

TL;DR This IS arbitrage.

AngelSky

hero member

Activity: 1008

Merit: 537

Well, that official announcement was like a soufflé. Hope to see some real hardware asap. Then the real things are going to be interesting.

Vigil

sr. member

Activity: 378

Merit: 250

Quote from: thefunkybits on September 07, 2013, 11:54:02 AM

Quote from: drawingthesun on September 07, 2013, 12:20:57 AM

Quote from: thefunkybits on September 06, 2013, 11:49:35 PM

Quote from: Vigil on September 06, 2013, 06:58:07 PM

Allow inter-exchange share transfers -> BTCT and BF. What argument is there against this?

Will this ever be possible??

Im arbing all my shares and picking up a few extra thousand for free

How?

Sell 1000 Shares on BTCT.
Buy 1300 Shares on Bitfunder.

Grin

That is not arbitrage.

Arbitrage would be buying 1300 shares on BitFunder at say .0025 and selling them on BTCT for .003. Then sending the bitcoins you earned from selling on BTCT back to Bitfunder to buy 1600 shares at .0025 and then selling those shares on BTCT again. You do this until the price difference no longer allows a profit.

Arbitrage is not simply the act of buying more shares on one exchange than you had on another. You are missing an entire step in the process, i.e., the transfer of the cheaper "good" over to the exchange which is paying more to make the sale.

thefunkybits

legendary

Activity: 1218

Merit: 1000

Quote from: drawingthesun on September 07, 2013, 12:20:57 AM

Quote from: thefunkybits on September 06, 2013, 11:49:35 PM

Quote from: Vigil on September 06, 2013, 06:58:07 PM

Allow inter-exchange share transfers -> BTCT and BF. What argument is there against this?

Will this ever be possible??

Im arbing all my shares and picking up a few extra thousand for free

How?

Sell 1000 Shares on BTCT.
Buy 1300 Shares on Bitfunder.

Grin

Stuartuk

sr. member

Activity: 266

Merit: 250

Quote from: carpetbagger on September 07, 2013, 09:40:16 AM

I own enough to express my disappointment at how things have progressed, zumzero.

lol yes the partnership with eASIC is the latest in a long line of disappointments. How dare this company pay for and sign off a next generation chip deal with one of the biggest and fastest to market players in North America. I know Microsoft give them nothing but praise and Seagate just signed a deal with them but what a really disappointing company to have making the ACtM chips. hey ho.

EDIT- I hope the Fujitsu foundry know what they are doing when they knock out our chips - but has any one ever heard of these people? another disappointing aspect of this so called progress. Fujit-WHO more like.

zumzero

hero member

Activity: 602

Merit: 500

myBitcoin.Garden

Fine. But posting infantile images aka icebreaker style isn't how to go about it. If you approach the subject with a childish emotional response, you won't be taken seriously. Try a different tact and you might be pleased with the outcome, who knows.

coinfresh

member

Activity: 88

Merit: 10

Quote from: carpetbagger on September 07, 2013, 09:40:16 AM

I own enough to express my disappointment at how things have progressed, zumzero.

I wouldn't be disappointed yet unless you already sold.

carpetbagger

sr. member

Activity: 258

Merit: 250

You can trust me, I have an avatar

I own enough to express my disappointment at how things have progressed, zumzero.

zumzero

hero member

Activity: 602

Merit: 500

myBitcoin.Garden

Quote from: carpetbagger on September 07, 2013, 09:09:37 AM

Bargraph, it's a pretty simple point for you to miss entirely. Rewind back to the heady days of page one. How were you feeling about actm? Where did you expect actm to be on Sept 8th, 2013? Was it here? Redundantly informing us about how we absolutely certainly have chips months behind schedule?

I bought this stock to make a profit with, nothing more, nothing less. Well, less, as it turns out. Thank you for asking though.

You won't make any profit on this stock mate because by the time you've dried your eyes you'll have sold the lot, that is if you ever owned any. Cry

carpetbagger

sr. member

Activity: 258

Merit: 250

You can trust me, I have an avatar

Bargraph, it's a pretty simple point for you to miss entirely. Rewind back to the heady days of page one. How were you feeling about actm? Where did you expect actm to be on Sept 8th, 2013? Was it here? Redundantly informing us about how we absolutely certainly have chips months behind schedule?

I bought this stock to make a profit with, nothing more, nothing less. Well, less, as it turns out. Thank you for asking though.

crumbs

full member

Activity: 210

Merit: 100

Quote from: ?? on ??

...
If you think the eASIC Deal is "Wonderful if it really really happens" then you are also either living under a rock or were dropped on your head as an infant because contrary to whatever is going on in that head of yours the deal is signed, the PR is released, and come hell or high water eASIC will produce a chip in November under contractual obligations.

Ohai Bargraphics! You've seen this contract? The one that talks about November chippery? Sauce pl0x!

carpetbagger

sr. member

Activity: 258

Merit: 250

You can trust me, I have an avatar

Sorry VBS I wasn't trying to attack you or your estimates and wasn't after theatrical effect (didn't know there were multiple versions & you're missing the point anyway). It's fair to make estimates, just as it's fair for me to bag out a company for shitty performance. The point you should be gleaning is that everyone's estimates were wrong. Nobody in our worst dreams pictured things being quite this lackluster.

Yes, the easic deal is wonderful if it really really happens, but even then, it's a fraction of "the dream".

Vbs

hero member

Activity: 504

Merit: 500

Quote from: ShawnP on September 07, 2013, 12:31:34 AM

Quote from: kleeck on September 07, 2013, 12:13:42 AM

Quote from: carpetbagger on September 07, 2013, 12:09:19 AM

Awwww... You just met you quota of bullshit posts. Unfortunate.

There is 0 BS in his post.
ActiveMining was suppossed to have 6TH online by now.
But since Avalon did not deliver it did not happen.
Also I find it interesting that network is 750TH and not 250TH as predicted in this chart.
But yeah that 6TH would just be temporary measure until Easic would deliver and company starts mining/selling.

That spreadsheet was posted in May I believe, so ofc the network estimate was wrong. Since then I've posted probably like 10 different updates on that spreadsheet, but carpetbagger just chose to use a very outdated version for the theatrical effect.

The "Reality..." is that the eAsic deal is done and posted on their official website. I'm sure if I wanted to create a theatrical effect also, there's no shortage of posts either. Grin

zumzero

hero member

Activity: 602

Merit: 500

myBitcoin.Garden

Thanks.

Topic: [ActiveMining] The Official Active Mining Discussion Thread - page 58. (Read 479475 times)