Topic: [ActiveMining] The Official Active Mining Discussion Thread - page 58. (Read 479317 times)
September 07, 2013, 05:07:27 PM
Better buy more.
September 07, 2013, 04:51:13 PM
Awwww... You just met you quota of bullshit posts. Unfortunate.
ActiveMining was suppossed to have 6TH online by now.
But since Avalon did not deliver it did not happen.
Also I find it interesting that network is 750TH and not 250TH as predicted in this chart.
But yeah that 6TH would just be temporary measure until Easic would deliver and company starts mining/selling.
Good luck deprogramming these ACTM cult members. They are utterly resistant to facts and logic.
"ACTM goes up? Better buy more!"
"ACTM goes down? Buy even more! Rah-rah-rah!"
^^^Is the mindset we're dealing with.
September 07, 2013, 04:42:01 PM
Allow inter-exchange share transfers -> BTCT and BF. What argument is there against this?
Will this ever be possible??
Im arbing all my shares and picking up a few extra thousand for free
How?
Sell 1000 Shares on BTCT.
Buy 1300 Shares on Bitfunder.
Arbitrage would be buying 1300 shares on BitFunder at say .0025 and selling them on BTCT for .003. Then sending the bitcoins you earned from selling on BTCT back to Bitfunder to buy 1600 shares at .0025 and then selling those shares on BTCT again. You do this until the price difference no longer allows a profit.
Arbitrage is not simply the act of buying more shares on one exchange than you had on another. You are missing an entire step in the process, i.e., the transfer of the cheaper "good" over to the exchange which is paying more to make the sale.
"In economics and finance, arbitrage /ˈɑrbɨtrɑːʒ/ is the practice of taking advantage of a price difference between two or more markets: striking a combination of matching deals that capitalize upon the imbalance, the profit being the difference between the market prices. When used by academics, an arbitrage is a transaction that involves no negative cash flow at any probabilistic or temporal state and a positive cash flow in at least one state; in simple terms, it is the possibility of a risk-free profit at zero cost. For instance, an arbitrage is present when there is the opportunity to instantaneously buy low and sell high."
There is no official mechanism for arbitrage so what people are calling arbitrage in the Bitcoin ecosystem is as close as we currently can get to what fiat institutions have. Further, the only inaccuracy I can see in calling what is described here arbitrage is that it is not instant or guaranteed. It was highly unlikely that the 35% spread yesterday would close before my coin transferred, though.
All this to say that arbitrage does not need to be cyclical to be called "arbitrage". It can be one trade from one exchange to the other that nets you a return due to the price spread.
TL;DR This IS arbitrage.
Arbitrage initially existed between MtGox and BTC-e, but no longer since BitInstant is down and all the withdrawal problems at MtGox. You can occasionally do arbitrage between BTC-e and Vircurex and that other little exchange.
September 07, 2013, 04:39:51 PM
I ran some numbers for fun, excluding possible profits form mining
This is total of 4172 units. Because nothing will happen before December, they have about 37 weeks to sell it all.
To produce 112.756 units per week is probably no big deal but can you actually sell all that hardware? This is 112.76 units every week, nonstop.
BTW, this is about 550 Thash of mining power. The whole network today is ticking at 692.909 Thash/s.
EDIT: Some say that $1.50 per Gh is about right expense. It is hard to believe but updated calculations are here https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.3106707
Please ignore the raving lunatics like Stuartuk and zumzero in following pages. Yes, it is embarrassing indeed.
Code:
Product Revenue profit Cost Markup % Cross margin Units sold Profit earn
Fast-Hash One Silver Edition 1774.29 709.716 1064.574 66.67% 40.00% 901 639454.116
Fast-Hash One Gold Edition 3704.05 1481.62 2222.43 66.67% 40.00% 700 1037134
Fast-Hash One Platinum Edition 5699.05 2279.62 3419.43 485 1105615.7
Fast-Hash-One Silver 64 GH/s 1299 519.6 779.4 66.67% 40.00% 901 468159.6
Fast-Hash-One Gold 128 GH/s 2499 999.6 1499.4 66.67% 40.00% 700 699720
Fast-Hash-One Platinum 256 GH/ 3699 1479.6 2219.4 66.67% 40.00% 485 717606
Total Profit: 4667689.416
Fast-Hash One Silver Edition 1774.29 709.716 1064.574 66.67% 40.00% 901 639454.116
Fast-Hash One Gold Edition 3704.05 1481.62 2222.43 66.67% 40.00% 700 1037134
Fast-Hash One Platinum Edition 5699.05 2279.62 3419.43 485 1105615.7
Fast-Hash-One Silver 64 GH/s 1299 519.6 779.4 66.67% 40.00% 901 468159.6
Fast-Hash-One Gold 128 GH/s 2499 999.6 1499.4 66.67% 40.00% 700 699720
Fast-Hash-One Platinum 256 GH/ 3699 1479.6 2219.4 66.67% 40.00% 485 717606
Total Profit: 4667689.416
This is total of 4172 units. Because nothing will happen before December, they have about 37 weeks to sell it all.
To produce 112.756 units per week is probably no big deal but can you actually sell all that hardware? This is 112.76 units every week, nonstop.
BTW, this is about 550 Thash of mining power. The whole network today is ticking at 692.909 Thash/s.
Quote
Margin Formulas/Calculations:
The gross profit P is the difference between the cost to make a product C and the selling price or revenue R.
P = R - C
The mark up percentage M is the profit P divided by the cost C to make the product.
M = P / C = ( R - C ) / C
The gross margin percentage G is the profit P divided by the selling price or revenue R.
G = P / R = ( R - C ) / R
The gross profit P is the difference between the cost to make a product C and the selling price or revenue R.
P = R - C
The mark up percentage M is the profit P divided by the cost C to make the product.
M = P / C = ( R - C ) / C
The gross margin percentage G is the profit P divided by the selling price or revenue R.
G = P / R = ( R - C ) / R
EDIT: Some say that $1.50 per Gh is about right expense. It is hard to believe but updated calculations are here https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.3106707
Please ignore the raving lunatics like Stuartuk and zumzero in following pages. Yes, it is embarrassing indeed.
September 07, 2013, 04:08:33 PM
Certainly quite a few units would have to be sold (this would require guessing how much they will cost in the future when network difficulty increases.. very difficult), but you also need to take into account the mining revenues which should be quite nice when we will get the chips at cost. I think at .003 we will definitely see a return on investment in a year from now.
September 07, 2013, 03:39:15 PM
Not sure, wtf you guys are whining about any more? (except the shitty PR and lack of reporting)
Only question now, is can ActiveMining pull of the following: "52 week total earnings" divided by "number of shares outstanding" is equal or grater than "current share price"
In real world, this is usually 3-5 years earnings but in BTC reality, with a serious case of ADD, even 52 weeks is unimaginable long time for most noobs
Currently Actm has 9972881 shares outstanding (btct 3074084+ bitfunder 6898797)
So, this is 9972881*0.0040=39891,524*BTC:USD or 117.
39892*117=4 667 364 USD
to make 4 667 364 USD profit (after all the expenses), how many units they need to sell in a year?
Only question now, is can ActiveMining pull of the following: "52 week total earnings" divided by "number of shares outstanding" is equal or grater than "current share price"
In real world, this is usually 3-5 years earnings but in BTC reality, with a serious case of ADD, even 52 weeks is unimaginable long time for most noobs
Currently Actm has 9972881 shares outstanding (btct 3074084+ bitfunder 6898797)
So, this is 9972881*0.0040=39891,524*BTC:USD or 117.
39892*117=4 667 364 USD
to make 4 667 364 USD profit (after all the expenses), how many units they need to sell in a year?
September 07, 2013, 03:05:25 PM
Did any one tried to do Google reverse image search on their miner pictures? Any conclusions?
September 07, 2013, 02:49:25 PM
Allow inter-exchange share transfers -> BTCT and BF. What argument is there against this?
Will this ever be possible??
Im arbing all my shares and picking up a few extra thousand for free
How?
Sell 1000 Shares on BTCT.
Buy 1300 Shares on Bitfunder.
Arbitrage would be buying 1300 shares on BitFunder at say .0025 and selling them on BTCT for .003. Then sending the bitcoins you earned from selling on BTCT back to Bitfunder to buy 1600 shares at .0025 and then selling those shares on BTCT again. You do this until the price difference no longer allows a profit.
Arbitrage is not simply the act of buying more shares on one exchange than you had on another. You are missing an entire step in the process, i.e., the transfer of the cheaper "good" over to the exchange which is paying more to make the sale.
"In economics and finance, arbitrage /ˈɑrbɨtrɑːʒ/ is the practice of taking advantage of a price difference between two or more markets: striking a combination of matching deals that capitalize upon the imbalance, the profit being the difference between the market prices. When used by academics, an arbitrage is a transaction that involves no negative cash flow at any probabilistic or temporal state and a positive cash flow in at least one state; in simple terms, it is the possibility of a risk-free profit at zero cost. For instance, an arbitrage is present when there is the opportunity to instantaneously buy low and sell high."
There is no official mechanism for arbitrage so what people are calling arbitrage in the Bitcoin ecosystem is as close as we currently can get to what fiat institutions have. Further, the only inaccuracy I can see in calling what is described here arbitrage is that it is not instant or guaranteed. It was highly unlikely that the 35% spread yesterday would close before my coin transferred, though.
All this to say that arbitrage does not need to be cyclical to be called "arbitrage". It can be one trade from one exchange to the other that nets you a return due to the price spread.
TL;DR This IS arbitrage.
September 07, 2013, 02:14:12 PM
Well, that official announcement was like a soufflé. Hope to see some real hardware asap. Then the real things are going to be interesting.
September 07, 2013, 02:06:13 PM
Allow inter-exchange share transfers -> BTCT and BF. What argument is there against this?
Will this ever be possible??
Im arbing all my shares and picking up a few extra thousand for free
How?
Sell 1000 Shares on BTCT.
Buy 1300 Shares on Bitfunder.
Arbitrage would be buying 1300 shares on BitFunder at say .0025 and selling them on BTCT for .003. Then sending the bitcoins you earned from selling on BTCT back to Bitfunder to buy 1600 shares at .0025 and then selling those shares on BTCT again. You do this until the price difference no longer allows a profit.
Arbitrage is not simply the act of buying more shares on one exchange than you had on another. You are missing an entire step in the process, i.e., the transfer of the cheaper "good" over to the exchange which is paying more to make the sale.
September 07, 2013, 11:54:02 AM
Allow inter-exchange share transfers -> BTCT and BF. What argument is there against this?
Will this ever be possible??
Im arbing all my shares and picking up a few extra thousand for free
How?
Sell 1000 Shares on BTCT.
Buy 1300 Shares on Bitfunder.
September 07, 2013, 10:38:12 AM
I own enough to express my disappointment at how things have progressed, zumzero.
lol yes the partnership with eASIC is the latest in a long line of disappointments. How dare this company pay for and sign off a next generation chip deal with one of the biggest and fastest to market players in North America. I know Microsoft give them nothing but praise and Seagate just signed a deal with them but what a really disappointing company to have making the ACtM chips. hey ho.
EDIT- I hope the Fujitsu foundry know what they are doing when they knock out our chips - but has any one ever heard of these people? another disappointing aspect of this so called progress. Fujit-WHO more like.
September 07, 2013, 10:05:43 AM
Fine. But posting infantile images aka icebreaker style isn't how to go about it. If you approach the subject with a childish emotional response, you won't be taken seriously. Try a different tact and you might be pleased with the outcome, who knows.
September 07, 2013, 09:53:24 AM
I own enough to express my disappointment at how things have progressed, zumzero.
I wouldn't be disappointed yet unless you already sold.
September 07, 2013, 09:40:16 AM
I own enough to express my disappointment at how things have progressed, zumzero.
September 07, 2013, 09:31:18 AM
Bargraph, it's a pretty simple point for you to miss entirely. Rewind back to the heady days of page one. How were you feeling about actm? Where did you expect actm to be on Sept 8th, 2013? Was it here? Redundantly informing us about how we absolutely certainly have chips months behind schedule?
I bought this stock to make a profit with, nothing more, nothing less. Well, less, as it turns out. Thank you for asking though.
I bought this stock to make a profit with, nothing more, nothing less. Well, less, as it turns out. Thank you for asking though.
You won't make any profit on this stock mate because by the time you've dried your eyes you'll have sold the lot, that is if you ever owned any.
September 07, 2013, 09:09:37 AM
Bargraph, it's a pretty simple point for you to miss entirely. Rewind back to the heady days of page one. How were you feeling about actm? Where did you expect actm to be on Sept 8th, 2013? Was it here? Redundantly informing us about how we absolutely certainly have chips months behind schedule?
I bought this stock to make a profit with, nothing more, nothing less. Well, less, as it turns out. Thank you for asking though.
I bought this stock to make a profit with, nothing more, nothing less. Well, less, as it turns out. Thank you for asking though.
September 07, 2013, 08:47:51 AM
...
If you think the eASIC Deal is "Wonderful if it really really happens" then you are also either living under a rock or were dropped on your head as an infant because contrary to whatever is going on in that head of yours the deal is signed, the PR is released, and come hell or high water eASIC will produce a chip in November under contractual obligations.
If you think the eASIC Deal is "Wonderful if it really really happens" then you are also either living under a rock or were dropped on your head as an infant because contrary to whatever is going on in that head of yours the deal is signed, the PR is released, and come hell or high water eASIC will produce a chip in November under contractual obligations.
Ohai Bargraphics! You've seen this contract? The one that talks about November chippery? Sauce pl0x!
September 07, 2013, 08:26:28 AM
Sorry VBS I wasn't trying to attack you or your estimates and wasn't after theatrical effect (didn't know there were multiple versions & you're missing the point anyway). It's fair to make estimates, just as it's fair for me to bag out a company for shitty performance. The point you should be gleaning is that everyone's estimates were wrong. Nobody in our worst dreams pictured things being quite this lackluster.
Yes, the easic deal is wonderful if it really really happens, but even then, it's a fraction of "the dream".
Yes, the easic deal is wonderful if it really really happens, but even then, it's a fraction of "the dream".
September 07, 2013, 08:02:07 AM
Awwww... You just met you quota of bullshit posts. Unfortunate.
ActiveMining was suppossed to have 6TH online by now.
But since Avalon did not deliver it did not happen.
Also I find it interesting that network is 750TH and not 250TH as predicted in this chart.
But yeah that 6TH would just be temporary measure until Easic would deliver and company starts mining/selling.
That spreadsheet was posted in May I believe, so ofc the network estimate was wrong. Since then I've posted probably like 10 different updates on that spreadsheet, but carpetbagger just chose to use a very outdated version for the theatrical effect.
The "Reality..." is that the eAsic deal is done and posted on their official website. I'm sure if I wanted to create a theatrical effect also, there's no shortage of posts either.
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