Topic: [ActiveMining] The Official Active Mining Discussion Thread - page 61. (Read 479475 times)
September 06, 2013, 04:55:37 PM
When do you think we can get some communication for the shareholders? It would be nice if Ken or PR would jump in and chat with us to answer any questions we have.
September 06, 2013, 03:42:02 PM
Nope, they are a fabless company.
Fabless means they are outsourcing the fabrication. Due to the nature of eASIC producing structured ASICs I'm convinced they are partnered with a semiconductor foundry and this is already covered.
I am getting the feeling that the nameless semiconductor foundry is remaining nameless for a reason, because TSMC would be far better and the share price would fall even lower if we found out.
I don't understand why the secrecy around a darn semiconductor company, we know that hashfast, avalon, labcoin all use TSMC.
It doesn't make any difference at all. Being made by TSMC isn't going to make the chip any better then being made at any other fab, other then perhaps batch yeild.
Also, eASIC 'nextreme' chips are made in a special way - the part of the wafer with the actual silicon is created first and ready to go. That means they have to have things setup with the fab for them to apply whatever metal layers they want to wafers that already have FPGA-style LUTs on them. The silicon layers are the same for all 'nextreme' chips. ActM chips will have the same base layers as seagate and all their customers.
The difference is in the metal layers on top of the silicon. The customer only gets a custom top layer. One key difference is that this makes NRE prices way lower, and on top of that, it also means way less time. You can be working on your metal layer while the wafers are already 'cooking' in the fab. So it should take less time from tapeout to production then a traditional ASIC.
The downside, of course, is far larger surface area per chip. That means it costs more to produce the chip, per GH/s then KnC, Cointerra, and HashFast. And possibly even more then BTCGarden (40nm) or Bitfury (55nm)
Also, as someone points out in a custom hardware thread, their prices need to come down as well to get any retail sales:
24TH/s for 353k$?
Competition is cheaper.
Competition is cheaper.
a quick comparison...
Shipping the same month as Cointerra and a month after Hashfast and 2 months after KnC? to reach 24 TH/s you'd need 12 of the Cointerra TM IV boxes... and at $14k each thats $168k versus $353k with vmc/amc
those ct boxes (or hashfash equivalents) would consume about 12 KW and cost $1818 a month to run (plus hvac cooling, which is approx double - i.e.: $3.6k a month in electricity running costs, conservatively - using 15 cents per KwH assumptions).. and the vmc/amc boxes would consume 36 KW, which would cost $5400 per month (and double it with cooling costs so say around $10.8k/month in running costs). After youve run them both for a year, the vmc/amc wouldve cost an extra $86k to run than the ct, ouch!)
-- Jez
September 06, 2013, 02:36:17 PM
But dex, think of the FUD opportunities!
BitFunder went below IPO earlier and BTC-TC is on the same level as before the press release (which I declare as very significant). What I think: speculators are already out and those who held ActM before the eASIC deal are now even more confident.
Thanks for this, so its not as hard to produce an active mining asic compared to asicminer and labcoin?
Is it as good? And if so why don't the other companies do this?
Is it as good? And if so why don't the other companies do this?
As far as I know it is easier, but I think eASIC does finalize the chip design anyway. There are pros and cons using structured ASICs. I assume they might be bit slower due to their overhead (disclaimer: no real knowledge here), though they should be much cheaper and faster to produce.
I will be honest, I have lost over $3000 on this stock so far, I can't even sell to recoup any losses and my only chance to get back is if this company works out. I just don't understand the no information thing.
Why are all of you ok with not knowing the foundry? Every other company discloses the foundry they use publicly.
Why are all of you ok with not knowing the foundry? Every other company discloses the foundry they use publicly.
They deal with eASIC. This does provide much more confidence than "an IC producer who uses TMSC", at least for me. Lame analogy: a meal baked in a perfect oven is not to be guaranteed more delicious than a meal cooked by a professional chef cook.
One additional note: "bucket shop foundries" are most likely non-existent, especially for a transistor size of 28 nm. Wikipedia has a list of fabrication plants, if you're interested in digging deeper: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_semiconductor_fabrication_plants
September 06, 2013, 02:24:54 PM
Why are all of you ok with not knowing the foundry? Every other company discloses the foundry they use publicly.
Considering you have that ammount invested have you even looked at the eASIC website where the foundaries they use are shown?
September 06, 2013, 02:23:26 PM
My suggestion for the product list is:
1) Bulk chips.
2) PCIe 1x cards, with discounts for bulk orders.
That's it. The reason is, a PCIe card can basically be produced entirely by an SMT line, with no manual labor at all. When the user gets it they can plug it into any motherboard. Since they already appear to be doing something like that, that would be the way to go.
You can retail off the shelf cases/back-planes/host controllers etc (something like a PCIe based version of the bitfury m-board) - but those should not be the 'main' products and they would ship separately, etc.
1) Bulk chips.
2) PCIe 1x cards, with discounts for bulk orders.
That's it. The reason is, a PCIe card can basically be produced entirely by an SMT line, with no manual labor at all. When the user gets it they can plug it into any motherboard. Since they already appear to be doing something like that, that would be the way to go.
You can retail off the shelf cases/back-planes/host controllers etc (something like a PCIe based version of the bitfury m-board) - but those should not be the 'main' products and they would ship separately, etc.
Both are already there, except for the discount on bulk pcie card purchases.
Quote
http://virtualminingcorp.com/shop1/index.php?id_product=26&controller=product
Fast-Hash-One Platinum 256 GH/s PCI-E Long Module. Less than 200 Watts.
Our cards can be used on any regular Intel/AMD motherboard!
They are currently in a design stage, to be built in a single-slot form-factor, similar to the illustration above, but using a blower-type fan assembly that expels the hot air outside your system case.
Connection requirements: the card will support a PCIE x1 connector, so you can fit it into any free PCIE x1, x4, x8, or x16 slot in your motherboard. Alternatively, it also has an USB connector so you can use it unplugged from a motherboard like any other regular USB bitcoin miner!
Estimated Power requirements:
One PCIE six-pin power connector plus one PCIE eight-pin power connector.
Required software drivers allowing card usage in popular bitcoin mining programs will be release in due time before cards are shipped.
Fast-Hash-One Platinum 256 GH/s PCI-E Long Module. Less than 200 Watts.
Our cards can be used on any regular Intel/AMD motherboard!
They are currently in a design stage, to be built in a single-slot form-factor, similar to the illustration above, but using a blower-type fan assembly that expels the hot air outside your system case.
Connection requirements: the card will support a PCIE x1 connector, so you can fit it into any free PCIE x1, x4, x8, or x16 slot in your motherboard. Alternatively, it also has an USB connector so you can use it unplugged from a motherboard like any other regular USB bitcoin miner!
Estimated Power requirements:
One PCIE six-pin power connector plus one PCIE eight-pin power connector.
Required software drivers allowing card usage in popular bitcoin mining programs will be release in due time before cards are shipped.
Bulk chips: http://virtualminingcorp.com/shop1/index.php?id_product=14&controller=product
September 06, 2013, 02:22:09 PM
eAsic uses Global Foundries and Fujitsu. http://www.easic.com/migration-to-cell-based-asic/easic-ecosystem/
September 06, 2013, 02:19:22 PM
Quote
TSMC would be far better
Why?
Well apparently TSMC wouldn't be better because the asic design is easier (see post above)
I don't quite understand the difference but it sounds like you don't need a full blown foundry.
September 06, 2013, 02:17:54 PM
Nope, they are a fabless company.
Fabless means they are outsourcing the fabrication. Due to the nature of eASIC producing structured ASICs I'm convinced they are partnered with a semiconductor foundry and this is already covered.
Quote
Structured ASIC is an intermediate technology between ASIC and FPGA, offering high performance, a characteristic of ASIC, and low NRE cost, a characteristic of FPGA. Using Structured ASIC allows products to be introduced quickly to market, to have lower cost and to be designed with ease.
In a FPGA, interconnects and logic blocks are programmable after fabrication, offering high flexibility of design and ease of debugging in prototyping. (...) Every different design [with custom ASICs] needs a complete different set of masks. The Structured ASIC is a solution between these two. It has basically the same structure as a FPGA, but being mask-programmable instead of field-programmable, by configuring one or several via layers between metal layers. Every SRAM configuration bit can be replaced by a choice of putting a via or not between metal contacts.
In a FPGA, interconnects and logic blocks are programmable after fabrication, offering high flexibility of design and ease of debugging in prototyping. (...) Every different design [with custom ASICs] needs a complete different set of masks. The Structured ASIC is a solution between these two. It has basically the same structure as a FPGA, but being mask-programmable instead of field-programmable, by configuring one or several via layers between metal layers. Every SRAM configuration bit can be replaced by a choice of putting a via or not between metal contacts.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Structured_ASIC_platform
And also: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.3091216
Thanks for this, so its not as hard to produce an active mining asic compared to asicminer and labcoin?
Is it as good? And if so why don't the other companies do this?
September 06, 2013, 02:15:56 PM
Quote
TSMC would be far better
Why?
September 06, 2013, 02:15:29 PM
But dex, think of the FUD opportunities!
I will be honest, I have lost over $3000 on this stock so far, I can't even sell to recoup any losses and my only chance to get back is if this company works out. I just don't understand the no information thing.
Why are all of you ok with not knowing the foundry? Every other company discloses the foundry they use publicly.
September 06, 2013, 02:13:11 PM
Nope, they are a fabless company.
Fabless means they are outsourcing the fabrication. Due to the nature of eASIC producing structured ASICs I'm convinced they are partnered with a semiconductor foundry and this is already covered.
I am getting the feeling that the nameless semiconductor foundry is remaining nameless for a reason, because TSMC would be far better and the share price would fall even lower if we found out.
I don't understand why the secrecy around a darn semiconductor company, we know that hashfast, avalon, labcoin all use TSMC.
September 06, 2013, 02:09:29 PM
Nope, they are a fabless company.
Fabless means they are outsourcing the fabrication. Due to the nature of eASIC producing structured ASICs I'm convinced they are partnered with a semiconductor foundry and this is already covered.
Quote
Structured ASIC is an intermediate technology between ASIC and FPGA, offering high performance, a characteristic of ASIC, and low NRE cost, a characteristic of FPGA. Using Structured ASIC allows products to be introduced quickly to market, to have lower cost and to be designed with ease.
In a FPGA, interconnects and logic blocks are programmable after fabrication, offering high flexibility of design and ease of debugging in prototyping. (...) Every different design [with custom ASICs] needs a complete different set of masks. The Structured ASIC is a solution between these two. It has basically the same structure as a FPGA, but being mask-programmable instead of field-programmable, by configuring one or several via layers between metal layers. Every SRAM configuration bit can be replaced by a choice of putting a via or not between metal contacts.
In a FPGA, interconnects and logic blocks are programmable after fabrication, offering high flexibility of design and ease of debugging in prototyping. (...) Every different design [with custom ASICs] needs a complete different set of masks. The Structured ASIC is a solution between these two. It has basically the same structure as a FPGA, but being mask-programmable instead of field-programmable, by configuring one or several via layers between metal layers. Every SRAM configuration bit can be replaced by a choice of putting a via or not between metal contacts.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Structured_ASIC_platform
And also: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.3091216
September 06, 2013, 02:06:25 PM
Nope, they are a fabless company.
Interesting. Any ideas where they've been fabricating ASICs in the past?
No idea, I am just a little perplexed that we have no physical chips. Everyone is using TSMC and we are still creating designs on computers. No wonder Ken is not around anymore.
I feel like I have made a huge mistake.
September 06, 2013, 02:05:49 PM
Is ActiveMining still taking delivery of the 2 batch of Avalon chips that are still on order or did we request a refund?
September 06, 2013, 02:04:41 PM
Quote from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EASIC
eASIC is a fabless semiconductor company offering NEW ASIC devices used in the production of customized silicon devices.
September 06, 2013, 02:03:44 PM
Nope, they are a fabless company.
Interesting. Any ideas where they've been fabricating ASICs in the past?
September 06, 2013, 02:02:51 PM
Damn investing in this company seems like a bad idea now, not feeling very good.
expand
Someone mentioned here https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.3095894 that ActiveMining does not yet have a fab to create the chips whilst all our competitors are using TSMC.
This is a little worrying.
Wait, am I completely daft or is eASIC not the fab?
Nope, they are a fabless company.
September 06, 2013, 02:01:03 PM
Damn investing in this company seems like a bad idea now, not feeling very good.
expand
Someone mentioned here https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.3095894 that ActiveMining does not yet have a fab to create the chips whilst all our competitors are using TSMC.
This is a little worrying.
Wait, am I completely daft or is eASIC not the fab?
September 06, 2013, 01:58:52 PM
Damn investing in this company seems like a bad idea now, not feeling very good.
expand
Someone mentioned here https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.3095894 that ActiveMining does not yet have a fab to create the chips whilst all our competitors are using TSMC.
This is a little worrying.
September 06, 2013, 01:56:31 PM
Guys, we're on Reddit.
Feel free to jump in and spread the love.
http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1lur6u/easic_announces_24_ths_fasthash_miner/
Feel free to jump in and spread the love.
http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1lur6u/easic_announces_24_ths_fasthash_miner/
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