Topic: [AMC]-The Official Active Mining Cooperative Discussion - page 91. (Read 223316 times)
lol, Ken tanked his own stock with that 2 million share wall
Hmmm considering buying in.
I like the looks of AMC, and it seems well thought-out enough.
But one thing that I get hung up on is the amount of $ they need to raise. Currently the .000025 shares represent upwards of 3800 BTC. That's a heck of lot of bit-clams to raise from the community. Am I correct in understanding if they don't raise this capital the plans to build the new chips will not go through?
I don't know if I can see that magnitude of BTC being invested in the company, no matter how good things look.
I like the looks of AMC, and it seems well thought-out enough.
But one thing that I get hung up on is the amount of $ they need to raise. Currently the .000025 shares represent upwards of 3800 BTC. That's a heck of lot of bit-clams to raise from the community. Am I correct in understanding if they don't raise this capital the plans to build the new chips will not go through?
I don't know if I can see that magnitude of BTC being invested in the company, no matter how good things look.
Well I only paid BTC2 at .0008 so I think Im going to stick with it and see where this goes.
The news was great, Im in for the long haul
The news was great, Im in for the long haul
This was all hashed out in the custom hardware forum last year. Go find the discussions yourself.
Basically you end up with a device that is equal to an FPGA in power and performance, and cheaper than an FPGA if you need thousands of them. But compared to an ASIC, the result is poor due to all the legacy overhead in the device.
But I guess that doesn't matter since you are buying the capability for Ken, and won't even own the IP.
Basically you end up with a device that is equal to an FPGA in power and performance, and cheaper than an FPGA if you need thousands of them. But compared to an ASIC, the result is poor due to all the legacy overhead in the device.
But I guess that doesn't matter since you are buying the capability for Ken, and won't even own the IP.
I know it's pointless, but I'll answer.
The chip performance results are stated in the news, so you either think them mediocre or are saying eAsic are liars. If you think a 16GH/s chip is mediocre for an ASIC, please point me anywhere where I can find a better one at the moment, or even in the design stage.
Do I understand it correctly that:
1) for 0.0025 I can buy share that represents 1/100,000,000th of profits of AMC mining
2) from now to next year's april I will get 1/40,000,000 of AMC's profits (unfortunately the ASICs are scheduled for Q4 2013 - Q1 2014)
1) for 0.0025 I can buy share that represents 1/100,000,000th of profits of AMC mining
2) from now to next year's april I will get 1/40,000,000 of AMC's profits (unfortunately the ASICs are scheduled for Q4 2013 - Q1 2014)
That share represents 1/40M of the profits of AMC mining until 0.0005 is paid per share, or May 2014, whichever comes later.
3) the AMC's hardware is preordered from this other company VMC
4) the VMC's hardware development is supposedly funded by kslaughter (stated previously in this thread), but in the Marketing Strategy part of the contract at btct.co it's written "AMC is developing an ASIC chip which will be marketed through VMC." From the new anouncement: "VMC is also announcing today that 100% of the profits from bulk sales of the
Fast-Hash-ONE chips will be reimbursed to AMC until the total amount that AMC has paid to VMC for the NRE to create this chip is totally reimbursed to AMC."
5) if VMC start selling their chips to public, the AMC will get 10% of their profit
4) the VMC's hardware development is supposedly funded by kslaughter (stated previously in this thread), but in the Marketing Strategy part of the contract at btct.co it's written "AMC is developing an ASIC chip which will be marketed through VMC." From the new anouncement: "VMC is also announcing today that 100% of the profits from bulk sales of the
Fast-Hash-ONE chips will be reimbursed to AMC until the total amount that AMC has paid to VMC for the NRE to create this chip is totally reimbursed to AMC."
5) if VMC start selling their chips to public, the AMC will get 10% of their profit
No, like you said in 4), AMC will get 100% of the profit, until all chip sales from VMC tally $1M (the NRE cost).
This effectively means that AMC is loaning $1M to VMC, and gets all profits from chip sales until that loan is paid.
In the end, chip sales pay the NRE costs, not AMC.
6) kslaughter has put his hard work and 6 Avalons in the company, now values his share in AMC for $15,000,000. Also he takes 90% of profit from the hardware sales
7) kslaughter is now selling the shares for 0.0025, but can later sell more for 0.0005 as stated in the summary at bifunder (also that has happened before).
8 ) the profit calculation in contract is based on assumption that the difficulty will rise only by 6.5% on average for next 24 months
9) shares have no voting rights - does it mean that contract can be changed? Or that shares can be diluted (more than 100,000,000 issued)?
I've probably misunderstood something, if that is the case, please correct me.
7) kslaughter is now selling the shares for 0.0025, but can later sell more for 0.0005 as stated in the summary at bifunder (also that has happened before).
8 ) the profit calculation in contract is based on assumption that the difficulty will rise only by 6.5% on average for next 24 months
9) shares have no voting rights - does it mean that contract can be changed? Or that shares can be diluted (more than 100,000,000 issued)?
I've probably misunderstood something, if that is the case, please correct me.
These have already been answered many times.
There are many concerns with what is being proposed here from new chip design perspective. Am I the only one reading between the lines?
I hate to burst your bubble here, but many people, including myself, looked at the easic route last year, and discarded it.
eAsic doesn't agree with you, it seems!
When you ask to buy the worst used car on the lot, does the salesman try to talk you out of it?
So, our good chip performance specs are the worst used car on the lot, that came out from their "4th Generation 28nm NEW ASICs", that are just coming out?
You can check it on their front page: http://www.easic.com/
EDIT - eASIC's vision and technology: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQsvbvv2Dww&hd=1
I hate to burst your bubble here, but many people, including myself, looked at the easic route last year, and discarded it.
eAsic doesn't agree with you, it seems!
The chip performance specs are their numbers.
I think the crash is more to do with btc/usd price crash more.
LOL, now we are really pulling at straws. A fluctuation of 2-3 dollars is keeping people from investing in "the fastest, most awesomest super duper chip design ever?"
I just realized it wasn't smart of me to buy shares when there are TONS of shares yet to be sold. Anything could happen before it reaches it last 100k shares. And that should've been the point where i should buy. If people stop buying halfway you're screwed.
Learned something for next time
Ya i just thought about that also...oh well if it doesn't happen .47btc gone...and yes i'm foolish/careless...I bought those w/o doin any reading
missed the golden AM boat and hell the very golden boat of btc all together...just swimming behind it trying to catch up sucks, so might as well take a gamble n hope i don't crap out but with my luck we're all doomed
I think it will be fine although it's not a good sign when people stop buying after only 1/4 of the shares.
Might be a fluke. We'll find out soon.
It will, at once the panic-sellers and undercutters realize that it is in all investors interest that AMC gets the funds needed for producing the chip (a production that will start the moment the NRE is paid), and thus remove their sell orders so we can proceed on getting the wall down.
The maximum NRE total cost asked to us is around $1,000,000, but we are expecting it may go
down from there. We estimate a total sale of 4,000,000 shares at ฿0.0025 for covering all
the NRE associated costs, considering BTC/USD fluctuations.
VMC is also announcing today that 100% of the profits from bulk sales of the
Fast-Hash-ONE chips will be reimbursed to AMC until the total amount that AMC has paid to
VMC for the NRE to create this chip is totally reimbursed to AMC. AMC will also
have the First Rights Of Refusal on a number of machines built with the Fast-Hash-ONE.
down from there. We estimate a total sale of 4,000,000 shares at ฿0.0025 for covering all
the NRE associated costs, considering BTC/USD fluctuations.
VMC is also announcing today that 100% of the profits from bulk sales of the
Fast-Hash-ONE chips will be reimbursed to AMC until the total amount that AMC has paid to
VMC for the NRE to create this chip is totally reimbursed to AMC. AMC will also
have the First Rights Of Refusal on a number of machines built with the Fast-Hash-ONE.
Are you sure VMC can afford to be this generous?
I mean all AMC is going to do is lend VMC $1 million.
And in return VMC is going to pay it back from profits? AND allow them to buy hardware?
Shouldn't VMC get something out of it?
I think the crash is more to do with btc/usd price crash more.
LOL, now we are really pulling at straws. A fluctuation of 2-3 dollars is keeping people from investing in "the fastest, most awesomest super duper chip design ever?"
I just realized it wasn't smart of me to buy shares when there are TONS of shares yet to be sold. Anything could happen before it reaches it last 100k shares. And that should've been the point where i should buy. If people stop buying halfway you're screwed.
Learned something for next time
Ya i just thought about that also...oh well if it doesn't happen .47btc gone...and yes i'm foolish/careless...I bought those w/o doin any reading
missed the golden AM boat and hell the very golden boat of btc all together...just swimming behind it trying to catch up sucks, so might as well take a gamble n hope i don't crap out but with my luck we're all doomed
I think it will be fine although it's not a good sign when people stop buying after only 1/4 of the shares are gone.
Might be a fluke. We'll find out soon.
I think the crash is more to do with btc/usd price crash more.
LOL, now we are really pulling at straws. A fluctuation of 2-3 dollars is keeping people from investing in "the fastest, most awesomest super duper chip design ever?"
I just realized it wasn't smart of me to buy shares when there are TONS of shares yet to be sold. Anything could happen before it reaches it last 100k shares. And that should've been the point where i should buy. If people stop buying halfway you're screwed.
Learned something for next time
Ya i just thought about that also...oh well if it doesn't happen .47btc gone...and yes i'm foolish/careless...I bought those w/o doin any reading
missed the golden AM boat and hell the very golden boat of btc all together...just swimming behind it trying to catch up sucks, so might as well take a gamble n hope i don't crap out but with my luck we're all doomed
I think the crash is more to do with btc/usd price crash more.
LOL, now we are really pulling at straws. A fluctuation of 2-3 dollars is keeping people from investing in "the fastest, most awesomest super duper chip design ever?"
I just realized it wasn't smart of me to buy shares when there are TONS of shares yet to be sold. Anything could happen before it reaches its last 100k shares. And that should've been the point where i should buy. If people stop buying halfway you're screwed.
Learned something for next time
I think the crash is more to do with btc/usd price crash more.
LOL, now we are really pulling at straws. A fluctuation of 2-3 dollars is keeping people from investing in "the fastest, most awesomest super duper chip design ever?"
I'm not entirely sure what people were expecting. The news is better than expected. Were they looking for the chips to be ready today? No one said anything of the such.
AMC provided the news that we all wanted to hear. They need money now to make the chips. The faster AMC raises the money, the faster the chips get made.
The conflict of interest and FUD in this thread is palpable.
AMC provided the news that we all wanted to hear. They need money now to make the chips. The faster AMC raises the money, the faster the chips get made.
The conflict of interest and FUD in this thread is palpable.
Exactly what people need to realize. Stop refreshing the charts every 5 seconds and instead get a grasp on how good these news actually are.
I think the crash is more to do with btc/usd price crash more.
Don't think so.
The buying stopped minutes after people here started questioning the "good news" and soon after the selling started.
I could be wrong.
Really what better is it to have shares at BTCT.co if it's a PT?
I mean if Bitfunder goes down or WeExchange go down, we are still f*cked when BTCT.co is buying shares from BitFunder as a PT.
Am I missing something here?
I mean if Bitfunder goes down or WeExchange go down, we are still f*cked when BTCT.co is buying shares from BitFunder as a PT.
Am I missing something here?
It's actually Ken issuing the shares on BTC-TC. It's likely a PT to keep accounting easier.
I think the crash is more to do with btc/usd price crash more.
Here you go:
Thanks for the answers. I also read the most of this thread.Quote
8 ) the profit calculation in contract is based on assumption that the difficulty will rise only by 6.5% on average for next 24 months
No the profit calculation in the contract is based on a 40 times increase in the difficulty in the next 25 months. Also, there is a growth and expansion fund which receives 50% of the revenue for the next ~10 Months to purchase more mining equipment to keep up and exceed the difficulty raise.Quote
7) kslaughter is now selling the shares for 0.0025, but can later sell more for 0.0005 as stated in the summary at bifunder (also that has happened before).
Yes, this has happened before, due to the Bitfunder "God" Ukto forcing AMC to sale shares at .0005 when the market price was .0008.Quote
9) shares have no voting rights - does it mean that contract can be changed? Or that shares can be diluted (more than 100,000,000 issued)?
The contract can not be changed. There can not be anymore than 100,000,000 shares issued.One more issue, I think that there is just too much shares to be sold.
Quote
5,000,000 early adopter shares originally issued
2,000,000 early adopter shares 2nd round
2,000,000 bitfunder amc-pt btct.co shares
There is still 11,000,000 shares to be sold to "early adopters" (plus the 3,000,000 not sold yet in the 2nd round). That's $3,500,000 @0.00252,000,000 early adopter shares 2nd round
2,000,000 bitfunder amc-pt btct.co shares
I'm not saying that Ken is a scammer, I'm just sceptical about the price and the contract.
Also everyone beware that the Vbs member is the biggest fanboy of AMC here, totally blind to any criticism.
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