And some more delays in BFL shipment plans / no shipment before 14th Jan 2013 - page 7.

creativex

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Quote from: Inaba on December 12, 2012, 12:12:06 PM

Quote from: greyhawk on December 12, 2012, 10:06:30 AM

I wonder where the foul mouthed BFL spokesdude has gone too. The silence is deafening. Hello? If you miss your daily quota of personal attacks and trolling accusations, this is going to reflect badly in your performance review under the "productivity" section. Please think of the children and save Christmas.

Are you so dense that you haven't figured it out yet? I only come in here and whip up the natives when the BFL mania dies down. Right now, it's a raging fire, you don't need my input. The top 10+ threads in the hardware forum are all about BFL. If things start dying down again, I'll post more.

...and they're mostly debates about whether BFL is staffed by idiots or thieves.

wdBTCtrader

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Quote from: creativex on December 12, 2012, 11:22:49 AM

Quote from: wdBTCtrader on December 12, 2012, 11:16:42 AM

While I agree that anonymity isn't a guaranteed right, and those that are proven to be scammers or child pornographers should be dox'd. My only concern is of starting a trend of "jumping the gun". While BFL has missed there projected dates, which could be for many reasons. I personally think it has just been a poorly managed project and this does not prove malicious intent.

Fucking up is not cause for attacking people personally. If it were, then how many of us deserve the same fate?

Your assessment of BFL's actions is very charitable(calling them fuckups). For myself I fail to see how they could possibly believe they were going to ship finished products in 2012, yet as recently as last week Josh and others(Debbie) were still advising potential customers that they either still had a chance to ship in 2012 or that they had "scheduled shipments" in December of 2012 and January of 2013.

Given what we now know(which is only what BFL reps want us to know) I fail to see how this behavior can be labelled a "fuck up", but your millage may vary.

I know that it is hard (as it was for me long ago) to see the distinction, unless you have fallen victim to prejudice (I refer to the literal meaning not it's connotation). Once you've had someone try to ruin your life because they misunderstood, and assumed to know your intentions you become sensitive to it and try to keep it from happening to others.

Inaba

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No, trolling would be what CreativeX, Frizz, etc... do. I respond to posts with verifiable information. Trolling would involve posting false information to incite flames. Fortunately for me, this forum is fertile ground for refuting lies and bullshit, so I don't need to resort to trolling. I just need to go around correcting idiots.

greyhawk

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Quote from: Inaba on December 12, 2012, 12:12:06 PM

Quote from: greyhawk on December 12, 2012, 10:06:30 AM

I wonder where the foul mouthed BFL spokesdude has gone too. The silence is deafening. Hello? If you miss your daily quota of personal attacks and trolling accusations, this is going to reflect badly in your performance review under the "productivity" section. Please think of the children and save Christmas.

Are you so dense that you haven't figured it out yet? I only come in here and whip up the natives when the BFL mania dies down. Right now, it's a raging fire, you don't need my input. The top 10+ threads in the hardware forum are all about BFL. If things start dying down again, I'll post more.

Pretty sure that is what usually is called trolling and there are board rules against trolling.

Inaba

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Quote from: greyhawk on December 12, 2012, 10:06:30 AM

I wonder where the foul mouthed BFL spokesdude has gone too. The silence is deafening. Hello? If you miss your daily quota of personal attacks and trolling accusations, this is going to reflect badly in your performance review under the "productivity" section. Please think of the children and save Christmas.

Are you so dense that you haven't figured it out yet? I only come in here and whip up the natives when the BFL mania dies down. Right now, it's a raging fire, you don't need my input. The top 10+ threads in the hardware forum are all about BFL. If things start dying down again, I'll post more.

miter_myles

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Quote from: Starlightbreaker on December 12, 2012, 12:02:55 PM

Quote from: bitcoindaddy on December 12, 2012, 12:01:14 PM

Quote from: bitcoindaddy on December 12, 2012, 10:11:15 AM

Quote from: greyhawk on December 12, 2012, 06:10:26 AM

Quote from: bfl_josh

Chinese New Year is not going to be a problem for a variety of reasons, so don't worry about that.

Translation: Chinese New Year won't introduce any unforseen delays, because we don't intend to release anything ever. Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.

There's an obvious and simple possible explanation why the Chinese New Year is not going to be a problem - their fab is not in China. Could be in USA or Europe.

Just confirmed by Josh:

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/bfl-forum-miscellaneous/519-10-dec-2012-bfl-asic-update-4.html#post7983

let's play a guessing game where the fab actually is.

now now - you have to waste time and figure out what that little piece of plastic is first before you advance to the next guessing game!

PuertoLibre

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Japan. (I say it with courageous certainty!)

Either that, or Thailand....

Starlightbreaker

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Quote from: bitcoindaddy on December 12, 2012, 12:01:14 PM

Quote from: bitcoindaddy on December 12, 2012, 10:11:15 AM

Quote from: greyhawk on December 12, 2012, 06:10:26 AM

Quote from: bfl_josh

Chinese New Year is not going to be a problem for a variety of reasons, so don't worry about that.

Translation: Chinese New Year won't introduce any unforseen delays, because we don't intend to release anything ever. Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.

There's an obvious and simple possible explanation why the Chinese New Year is not going to be a problem - their fab is not in China. Could be in USA or Europe.

Just confirmed by Josh:

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/bfl-forum-miscellaneous/519-10-dec-2012-bfl-asic-update-4.html#post7983

let's play a guessing game where the fab actually is.

bitcoindaddy

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Quote from: bitcoindaddy on December 12, 2012, 10:11:15 AM

Quote from: greyhawk on December 12, 2012, 06:10:26 AM

Quote from: bfl_josh

Chinese New Year is not going to be a problem for a variety of reasons, so don't worry about that.

Translation: Chinese New Year won't introduce any unforseen delays, because we don't intend to release anything ever. Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.

There's an obvious and simple possible explanation why the Chinese New Year is not going to be a problem - their fab is not in China. Could be in USA or Europe.

Just confirmed by Josh:

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/bfl-forum-miscellaneous/519-10-dec-2012-bfl-asic-update-4.html#post7983

Syke

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Quote from: Fjordbit on December 12, 2012, 11:34:40 AM

If you fail to see it, then I'm left wondering what your experience has been with vendors like BFL's fab. In my experience, they misrepresent themselves so consistently that your only option is to not trust what they say. I think BFL's issue was then trusting a vendor they had no prior relationship with, a failure on their part, but one that is easy to see how it happened. I personally have been involved in a project with a pretty similar outcome, where our trust in such a vendor ended up with 0 product on launch day. That experience has it so that I always have checkpoints early and often in my projects with these vendors, and even with new employees.

BFL sure likes to blame the fab since being unknown they can't come here and defend themselves.

The conversation probably went like this:

BFL: We want to do a fully custom ASIC.
Fab: Have you ever done ASICs before?
BFL: Sure, we programmed FPGAs. That's the same thing, right?
Fab: Uh, no. Very different.
BFL: Well, how long will it take?
Fab: Someone with experience can do it in 6 months, but since this is your first attempt, expect 1-2 years.
BFL: Ok, great, thanks.

BFL to public: We'll have a finished product in 6 months, guaranteed! The fab said so.

greyhawk

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Quote from: wdBTCtrader on December 12, 2012, 11:16:42 AM

While I agree that anonymity isn't a guaranteed right, and those that are proven to be scammers or child pornographers should be dox'd. My only concern is starting a trend of "jumping the gun". While BFL has missed there projected dates, which could be for many reasons. I personally think it has just been a poorly managed project. This does not prove malicious intent.

It has previously been established that one of BFLs managers is convicted for running a scam defrauding little old ladies for 20 million USD.

Any doxing taking place is really just due diligence.

creativex

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Quote from: Fjordbit on December 12, 2012, 11:34:40 AM

Quote from: creativex on December 12, 2012, 11:22:49 AM

For myself I fail to see how they could possibly believe they were going to ship finished products in 2012, yet as recently as last week Josh and others(Debbie) were still advising potential customers that they either still had a chance to ship in 2012 or that they had "scheduled shipments" in December of 2012 and January of 2013.

If you fail to see it, then I'm left wondering what your experience has been with vendors like BFL's fab. In my experience, they misrepresent themselves so consistently that your only option is to not trust what they say. I think BFL's issue was then trusting a vendor they had no prior relationship with, a failure on their part, but one that is easy to see how it happened. I personally have been involved in a project with a pretty similar outcome, where our trust in such a vendor ended up with 0 product on launch day. That experience has it so that I always have checkpoints early and often in my projects with these vendors, and even with new employees.

If I trusted what they said, even to the tiniest extent, I likely would have followed through and funded an order with them. I do not...so I did not.

Your defense of them seems to be that they're dishonest, naive idiots, but not scammers. Have I summed that up about right?

Fjordbit

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firstbits.com/1kznfw

Quote from: creativex on December 12, 2012, 11:22:49 AM

For myself I fail to see how they could possibly believe they were going to ship finished products in 2012, yet as recently as last week Josh and others(Debbie) were still advising potential customers that they either still had a chance to ship in 2012 or that they had "scheduled shipments" in December of 2012 and January of 2013.

If you fail to see it, then I'm left wondering what your experience has been with vendors like BFL's fab. In my experience, they misrepresent themselves so consistently that your only option is to not trust what they say. I think BFL's issue was then trusting a vendor they had no prior relationship with, a failure on their part, but one that is easy to see how it happened. I personally have been involved in a project with a pretty similar outcome, where our trust in such a vendor ended up with 0 product on launch day. That experience has it so that I always have checkpoints early and often in my projects with these vendors, and even with new employees.

creativex

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Activity: 434

Merit: 250

Quote from: wdBTCtrader on December 12, 2012, 11:16:42 AM

While I agree that anonymity isn't a guaranteed right, and those that are proven to be scammers or child pornographers should be dox'd. My only concern is of starting a trend of "jumping the gun". While BFL has missed there projected dates, which could be for many reasons. I personally think it has just been a poorly managed project and this does not prove malicious intent.

Fucking up is not cause for attacking people personally. If it were, then how many of us deserve the same fate?

Your assessment of BFL's actions is very charitable(calling them fuckups). For myself I fail to see how they could possibly believe they were going to ship finished products in 2012, yet as recently as last week Josh and others(Debbie) were still advising potential customers that they either still had a chance to ship in 2012 or that they had "scheduled shipments" in December of 2012 and January of 2013.

Given what we now know(which is only what BFL reps want us to know) I fail to see how this behavior can be labelled a "fuck up", but your millage may vary.

wdBTCtrader

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Activity: 42

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While I agree that anonymity isn't a guaranteed right, and those that are proven to be scammers or child pornographers should be dox'd. My only concern is starting a trend of "jumping the gun". While BFL has missed there projected dates, which could be for many reasons. I personally think it has just been a poorly managed project. This does not prove malicious intent.

Fucking up is not cause for attacking people personally. If it were, then how many of us deserve the same fate?

greyhawk

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Activity: 952

Merit: 1009

Quote from: Fjordbit on December 12, 2012, 11:00:14 AM

There was a case on Reddit where some guy was operating a bunch of scummy message boards (called subreddits), and a reporter doxxed him. He ended up losing his job and other things. While it sucks for him, he both revealed enough about himself that he could be found, and made himself a target by his actions. This is a recipe to have your identity revealed.

That was the guy running the child porn subreddits, wasn't it? The "Well, if they didn't want their pictures to end up on the net, they should let themselves get photographed in the first place." one.

Fjordbit

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firstbits.com/1kznfw

Quote from: creativex on December 12, 2012, 10:21:30 AM

At what point does someone that's taken hundreds of thousands of dollars in pre-order funds and then starts acting flakey lose their right to anonymity?

There's no right to anonymity. If someone wants to remain anonymous, they need to conduct their online persona as such. This means using TOR or at least a VPN, but additionally not leaking personal information about themselves.

There was a case on Reddit where some guy was operating a bunch of scummy message boards (called subreddits), and a reporter doxxed him. He ended up losing his job and other things. While it sucks for him, he both revealed enough about himself that he could be found, and made himself a target by his actions. This is a recipe to have your identity revealed.

greyhawk

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Quote from: wdBTCtrader on December 12, 2012, 10:45:41 AM

I agree, not much, but if doxing does occur because of the the slightest insult then I've joined the wrong cause.

It does occur. The quite varied history of scams running on these forums has pretty much necessitated it.

Here's a very concise history of the last two years:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/list-of-major-bitcoin-heists-thefts-hacks-scams-and-losses-old-83794

Or with some more details added:
http://polimedia.us/trilema/2012/the-bitcoin-drama-timeline/

wdBTCtrader

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Quote from: greyhawk on December 12, 2012, 10:35:05 AM

Quote from: wdBTCtrader on December 12, 2012, 10:24:48 AM

It would be a very detrimental to the community if we started dox'ing those that have upset us. Dox'ing is very serious and has very serious consequences. It goes against what many in this community believe and against why they believe in bitcoins, anonymity. If you start the trend of dox'ing you will in essence begin the downfall of this forum and maybe even Bitcoins themselves.

You started posting in earnest on December the 2nd. What do you know about "this community" and what it supposedly believes in?

What do you know about the quite extensive history of doxing on these forums and how the results were used time and again to implicate and warn against scammers way, way before their scam ever paid out? (didn't stop people investing in them, but that's another story)

I agree, not much, but if doxing does occur because of the the slightest insult then I've joined the wrong cause.

greyhawk

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Quote from: wdBTCtrader on December 12, 2012, 10:24:48 AM

It would be a very detrimental to the community if we started dox'ing those that have upset us. Dox'ing is very serious and has very serious consequences. It goes against what many in this community believe and against why they believe in bitcoins, anonymity. If you start the trend of dox'ing you will in essence begin the downfall of this forum and maybe even Bitcoins themselves.

You started posting in earnest on December the 2nd. What do you know about "this community" and what it supposedly believes in?

What do you know about the quite extensive history of doxing on these forums and how the results were used time and again to implicate and warn against scammers way, way before their scam ever paid out? (didn't stop people investing in them, but that's another story)

Topic: And some more delays in BFL shipment plans / no shipment before 14th Jan 2013 - page 7. (Read 22705 times)