Topic: [ANN] 0pticoin (0TC) - Release Date: May 15, 2013 - Postponed ~1 month [ANN] - page 10. (Read 18824 times)

As far as why you should participate is for you to decide. Some possible reasons are:

1. Over time as I add different features for testing before using in other clients there is no telling what this specific chain may evolve into. It may be entertaining to watch.

2. As this coin progresses and gains features, it may become more desirable than other alts, especially as initial interest in the current pump/dump coins dies off and people look for other clients to try. The coin may hold some real-world value at some point as it evolves.

3. If APCXS or any of my other alts I intend to develop become widely adopted then 0pticoin may become highly coveted as that client's pre-cursor.

4. For the lulz.

These are just a few suggestions, I'm sure there are others...

I will experiment with the starting diff algo and post back what I come up with.

nHeight is used as the seed for random number generation.

And I believe I will remove the first week mining rewards because I agree with what has been said in this thread. I am still going to leave the random chances for increased block rewards as they are small chances and with them being x2 and x5 the base reward of 5 it's not giving out extravagant amounts at frequent intervals but rather a smaller bonus on an infrequent basis.


I linked to the official dev thread for APCXS earlier in this thread,  I will add the link to the OP.

Here it is again anyway: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/apcxs-official-development-thread-175875

What is this "APCXS" and why should I participate in this beta test?

>> 30 is what I guessed would at least make the initial blocks have enoguh seconds between them that we would be able to start to sell by how much we really needed to shift it for a reasonable starting difficulty.

I did not realise though that bitcoin had >> 32 at start. That was so low than a single CPU in those days could mine it.

So >> 30 one CPU could probably mine it at four times the target speed!

So probably at least >> 32 like bitcoin is needed for sure and realistically a few more shifts too to make up for the fact we have multi-core machines now and GPUs and so on.

From the sound if it litecoin started this whole premine-publicly-at-launch scam, there is no good reason for litecoin's starting difficulty to be less than bitcoin's, in fact they should have made it higher than bitcoin's not lower, to account for improvements in hardware but also to account for there being more than one or two or three people who would mine it.

So litecoin seems to be the originator of the whole scammy-launch crap.

The random rewards is a whole can of worms too.

If the entire random number sequence pre-determined from launch so everyone can compute exactly which blocks will be "lucky" ?

Or is hash of previous lbock or some such thing used?

Each has its own exploits and problems.

Then the high rewards at the start. That is total scam-premining right there. You are basically trying to recruit cohorts to collude with you in pre-mining the coin. Wherever you initially announce it is the den of the crooks who collude with you in pre-mining the coin,

About it being "just a test", we did that with GRouPcoin. People's motivation to participate in the "test" is they get to fill their test-character's test-wallet with coins. When you are done using the chain for your tests, they are left with rich characters well equipped to play whatsoever games characters equipped with lots of coins to play. The coin continues to be used by players to this very day, and they expect it to ultimately serve as a 1000-devcoin coin if only in their games.

So yeah, you can call it a test all you want, but if people invest electricity and attention and time in something don't expect them to just throw all that electricity and attention and time away. It is valuable and even if you choose not to continue to value it so what, walk away if you insist but don't take players' game-currency out of their game-currency wallets once they have some.

Finally, I built testnet-based coins for a bunch of players, and it turned out they would not run as main nets, because their genesis blocks were not difficult enoiugh. Because testnet has 1/16 the difficulty of main net, thus its genesis block was rejected from the outset by the difficulty checker.

So, far from serving as a way to test a blackchain before deploying that blockchain as a main instead of test blockchain, it turned out they were locked in to having to stay with the testnet side of the code instead of the main net side of the code.

(I had made them dual use clients, by replacing bitcoin's testnet with their custom currency, so the same client could be used to run either bitcoin or their custom currency, simply by using the -testnet switch to swich to their custom currency.)

-MarkM-

This looks interesting.  I like to idea of incorporating the random block reward from Junkcoin.   

Well, the litecoin alts coins now have been starting with "~uint256(0) >> 20" and each increment in this number doubles the difficulty (if I am understanding it correctly) and I am using "~uint256(0) >> 30".

I will test this setting on the testnet and adjust it until it puts out what I believe to be a fair starting difficulty.


Well, it's hard to project what initial interest will be in any given client which is why we have the difficulty re-targeting algorithm to adjust the difficulty based on the "interest" being applied.

The best solution would be a proper re-targeting algorithm which I will be working on over the next few days.


I'm aiming to keep the starting difficulty in a range that is reasonable for mining by everyone. From there I am going to attempt to come up with a re-targeting algorithm that will respond rapidly and maintain flexibility without allowing enough room in flexibility to encourage difficulty attacks by miners with ltc mining farms and botnets.

Each shift represents *2 or /2. It sounds close but isn't that close. But why am I writing someone who will shout through this forum what a big scam this coin is.

Technically though you don't really want such a high starting difficulty if you're hoping for at least some initial interest/hype. Or otherwise make the difficulty adjusting algorithm comparably aggressive. Don't really want to see something like what Terracoin experienced some weeks ago.

Considering the fact that this is targeted to be CPU mined, I'd reduce that value (10) considerably. To something below 1 (given the GPU/CPU scrypt efficiency ratio)

NVM, wrong coin. There are so many coins that I lost track.

Is there a way to calculate what the starting difficulty *should* be, based on previous initial mining interest (/q/nethash) and a target starting block interval (i.e. 1 block / 15 sec?) Something like that (with projected block interval clearly stated in launch) would be a reasonably fair launch.

Again, I want to test the client in a real-world environment under real-world network stress. All the clients currently available have "potentially buggy code" as they are all considered to be in "beta" as they are all currently still in development and have not reached a "final release" state.

Also, as mentioned earlier in the thread, I am re-considering the early adoption bonuses. I originally intended for them to increase the coin's initial popularity to not only test the released re-target algorithm to wild swings, but to help gain network hashing speed to decrease the likelihood of 51% attack on the network by an ltc mining farm owner, but I am putting some thought/reading into other ways to enhance the network's security.


I might do that as well, I had considered doing it when I was editing that part of the code but with the increased starting difficulty it may not be necessary. But I may do it anyway just to give everyone time to get the client downloaded, installed and configured and to also allow the community some time to review the code before rewards begin being distributed.

Smallchange implemented this idea, and it worked out pretty well. Starting difficulty should also be adjusted to something like the above.

Why don't you let the first 1k Blocks unpaid?
So everyone starts mining and everyone has the same chances.

Ah, well CHNCoin used Litecoin's starting difficulty of:


which seems to be what pretty much everyone else has been using as well.

Bitcoin's source has the starting diff as:


The algo I am currently using is:



So, I hope (in theory) we should be able to skip the whole 10 blocks/sec phase of the release.


https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/apcxs-official-development-thread-175875

This is hardly a scam coin. This is the beginning of a client which will see much development and many changes as I use it as a stepping stone for testing new features for other coins intended for more customized (niche) purposes as well as APCXS.

If your intent is to actually test, then you should do what we did at Freicoin, make self-terminating binaries (a week or so) which you utilize within your development group and do not promote for mass usage.  This keeps potentially buggy code out of the hands of unsuspecting users and prevents polluting the public space with testing that really has no business their.  If you have some elaborate plan for future developments you don't want your early experiments crowding you out.

Also you seem to be including a lot of 'gimmicks' to promote early miners, inflated early mining, random double and quintuple rewards, these just smell bad and reduce my confidence in it.

The huge orphans rate for everyone. They though that the P2Pool OPs (me included) were scammers, because they didn't get coins. But in reality they just got orphans..

I'm actually planning to have a pool/forum/exchange all on a site somewhere which should be up in the next week or two. In the meantime, I expect that the p2pool gurus and others who may be interested in the coin will build their own pools.

With 3 days between now and the release, there are likely to be one or two pools available on the day of release.
Ah, here's one now, lol! Can you tell me what specifically was difficult about setting up p2pool for CHNcoin...? If you can let me know I will do best to help avoid those difficulties.


It is unlikely that I will ever just "give up" on the coin. But in the event for some reason I do and I abandon the project entirely, if the coin is worthy of standing on it's own virtues at that point then I believe it will survive due to it's open-source nature as I suspect the community at large would pick up it's development. But I am very unlikely to give up on it's development, I plan for this to be the staging platform for new features before I add them to other currencies I intend to develop for niche purposes. This will be an active and on-going project.

I'm also quite certain that I won't have to do it all alone as the source will be hosted on my github (the source available on my git now is not current and nor will it be until the coin's final release, I will push the source from my linux box at 6pm GMT on May and I'm sure the community members at large who are interested will have their own pull/commit requests to add.

And I haven't changed much for the initial release because the initial challenge was just compile my own fork successfully to familiarize myself with the process of creating a new coin (baby steps). Now I will continue to add/edit the source code to familiarize myself with the code intimately and learning over time how both the code and the client/network itself respond to various settings.

Bitcoin isn't in final release, it's still in development and people use it and mine it, I'm basically doing the same thing but using this client as a staging platform to test new features for my other projects.

And I would like to see this coin traded, I have no problems with people selling/trading the coin, it's the only way to test my chosen block times, re-target times, potential issues with new features in an exchange environment when I implement them. This is why I will host my own pool/exchange/development-forum somewhere so those who are interested can mine it, trade it and make dev suggestions, hold discussions, etc...

I don't see any reason why a coin shouldn't be able to be traded, used and mined while it's still under development, EVERY other coin available is still under development, lol...


Well, the starting difficulty I've chosen is already higher than litecoin, junkcoin, smallchange and the other litecoin alts I've seen.

With a starting higher difficulty and a well thought out difficulty re-target algorithm (I will likely add upper/lower limits to the amount the difficulty can adjust each re-target period and possibly change the actual re-target interval itself) I believe the coin will start with a very stable network and I believe it will hold in stability as the network fluctuates.

And if Satoshi generated his genesis block the same way I did then it wouldn't have taken him 6 days, it would have taken him an hour. I'm not sure if he used the same method as me (as suggested per sacarlson's multicoin github), but I believe it is a distinct possibility.


Thanks for the suggestion, I will take a look/read.


I don't see BitBar as sticking around for the long-term personally, but if that's your chosen client I wish you luck with it.

I understand that you want a real world test.  But will you decide if the test failed and then kill the coin?  You "expect people to use and mine it" but if you feel it isn't working out then people might be a little peeved that the project was killed.

I hear what your trying to do.  But, IMHO, you will get more respect if you only release the final version coin.  Your coin isn't Bitcoin, so what they did doesn't apply to any other coin but Bitcoin.

I can already hear people saying... "yea that is the guy who released 0pticoin, which failed and I wasted my time mining".  Scam, hate, etc.

You can get a real world test if you beta the coin with miners.  You can get plenty of people to help.  Since you're not changing much, how much do you have to test?

Your thread title also says - new coin, mine me, make money, fully working, not scam... should say - TEST COIN, SANDBOX, Wanted Testers.

LOL guys. Just because you were so late with BitBars you are now QQing.. Just realize that BitBar isn't a scam, but the most innovative alt coin out of the new ones.

why not release it with a crazy difficulty at the beginning,
then such bitbar-scams will not happen. in fact dificulty will go down if needed,
remember satoshi took days just to mine the genesis block, you should target at least that kind of difficulty,
look, just because the coin will generate blocks every 90 seconds doesn't mean the first days it has to generate blocks every 90 seconds,
could be a fair innovation.