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Topic: [ANN] Bitfury is looking for alpha-testers of first chips! FREE MONEY HERE! - page 47. (Read 176729 times)

full member
Activity: 130
Merit: 100
A bit early to tell, but I think my first order of wafers is going to be 30 PetaHash = 30,000,000 GH, by the end of next year it certainly be in 1,000 PH range, god only know what Knc/Kcn will come up with

How much total power do You need for the 30 / 1000 PH ? Where do You think You can get this power ?
Most data centers I know are limited by power.

30PH would use 60-125MWh, I would not be running it all for my customers, they will be running most of it themselves.

Sabey B1,B3 77 MWh each, and they have more sites and there many more companies

US electricity use for data centers from the EPA report to Congress ~90,000,000 MWh in 2012


http://www.datacenterknowledge.com/archives/2008/04/04/microsofts-198-megawatts-of-motivation/
sr. member
Activity: 336
Merit: 250
You can buy ASICMINER USB powered stick with 300MH/s performance.
When bitfury will release his chips you will be able to build 5GH/s USB powered stick.
Which one will be giving you more profits?

Is Bitfury going to sell his chips directly to the public? I thought he was supplying chips only to 100TH and MetaBank.  


maybe only at start Smiley wait and see
legendary
Activity: 966
Merit: 1000
- - -Caveat Aleo- - -
You can buy ASICMINER USB powered stick with 300MH/s performance.
When bitfury will release his chips you will be able to build 5GH/s USB powered stick.
Which one will be giving you more profits?

Is Bitfury going to sell his chips directly to the public? I thought he was supplying chips only to 100TH and MetaBank.  
sr. member
Activity: 250
Merit: 250
A bit early to tell, but I think my first order of wafers is going to be 30 PetaHash = 30,000,000 GH, by the end of next year it certainly be in 1,000 PH range, god only know what Knc/Kcn will come up with

How much total power do You need for the 30 / 1000 PH ? Where do You think You can get this power ?
Most data centers I know are limited by power.

...

Currently ~100 MWatt is used for BTC mining [assuming only GPU exists and there are no FPGA and ASIC miners]. Powering 1000 PH with this would be difficult (impossible now, but possible with low voltage 28nm ASIC).
full member
Activity: 130
Merit: 100
You can buy ASICMINER USB powered stick with 300MH/s performance.
When bitfury will release his chips you will be able to build 5GH/s USB powered stick.
Which one will be giving you more profits?
5GH single in spec USB port stick in 55nm (implies powered only via one USB port that most computers have) is BS, besides all other tech problems how are you going to cool 2.5-4.5W+, and if you need external cooling when room temp is regular 30C/86F then you made bad design, are you going to put fan in USB stick?

And if it would be possible then it will also be possible to run it at normal 1V voltage and get double the performance 10GH via normal power supply - if anyone is smart they will choose that and not a USB toy.
legendary
Activity: 1904
Merit: 1007
...
When bitfury will release his chips you will be able to build 5GH/s USB powered stick.
...

Someone hurry with the PCB schemes and let's start getting some nice USB miners.
legendary
Activity: 1029
Merit: 1000
You can buy ASICMINER USB powered stick with 300MH/s performance.
When bitfury will release his chips you will be able to build 5GH/s USB powered stick.
Which one will be giving you more profits?
full member
Activity: 130
Merit: 100
.... and there are 4 of them on a motherboard.

Why 4? Not 8?
There's an end somwhere. In real world it will be power or price before performance. Why? Performance scales lineary, power and price does not...
As I said, ratios counts most. If you hit power limits in performane/power ratio then you can do nothing. If you change that ratio to 6/2 then you can increase performane 3 times...


That is the point, you do hit a limit in performance/power ratio, it's Voltage squared, so
1V^ =1 and 0.5V^=0.25, 1/0.25=4/1=8/2 minus static power, minus supporting electronics = 6/2 to 4/2
1V^ =1 and 0.6V^=0.36, 1/0.36=~3/1=6/2 minus static power, minus supporting electronics = 4/2 to 3/2


legendary
Activity: 1029
Merit: 1000
.... and there are 4 of them on a motherboard.

Why 4? Not 8?
There's an end somwhere. In real world it will be power or price before performance. Why? Performance scales lineary, power and price does not...
As I said, ratios counts most. If you hit power limits in performane/power ratio then you can do nothing. If you change that ratio to 6/2 then you can increase performane 3 times...
full member
Activity: 130
Merit: 100
Would you rather make $86/day and pay $30/day for power = profit of $56 or
make $43/day and pay $5 for power = profit of $38

You see, you're quoting ratios, something/something. And that counts most. Single parameter like performance or power or price means nothing.
I would choose 86$/day @ 10$/day of power. Profit = 76$.

Your ratio is not possible. The ratio that doesn't change to higher, but only to lower is 6/2.
6x lower power at 2x lower performance, which would be difficult to achieve, it most likely be only 3/2-4/2 if you include supporting electronics, which will make even less profit if running chip at lower voltage vs running same chip at standard voltage. Why do you think Intel, AMD, Cray, IBM and everyone else who needs more performance than save battery does high integration and most power. New Cray multi-die chip made by IBM is 560W and there are 4 of them on a motherboard.

In your example if $86/day @ $10/day = $76 is low power, then
high power will be $172/day @ $60/day = $112 in profit

A bit early to tell, but I think my first order of wafers is going to be 30 PetaHash = 30,000,000 GH, by the end of next year it certainly be in 1,000 PH range, god only know what Knc/Kcn will come up with
legendary
Activity: 1029
Merit: 1000
Would you rather make $86/day and pay $30/day for power = profit of $56 or
make $43/day and pay $5 for power = profit of $38

You see, you're quoting ratios, something/something. And that counts most. Single parameter like performance or power or price means nothing.
I would choose 86$/day @ 10$/day of power. Profit = 76$.
hero member
Activity: 631
Merit: 500
You also need to realize these chips were design when mining was much less profitable (in fiat)
full member
Activity: 130
Merit: 100
Look at the whole perspective.
Those chips are designed to be powered in serial. So DC/DC converters can be simpler  and cheaper (less current). And this leads to smaller PCB, smaller heatsinks, smaller cases, less noise from fans, higher density GH/cm2.... Ideally for datacenters where every watt counts. So this ratio 6/2 makes ALOT of sense...

In data center kW don't count that much, they have plenty of them, if you shop around. I got quotes for $0.12-$0.25kW including internet and rack space from multiple data centers for 10-20kW per rack. Full rack with 10kW power, 10Mbps internet from $864-$1,800

Ok, the cost of less powerful supporting electronics vs more of them may or may not balance to zero sum, but you still get virtually no benefit and only detriment in ruining chips at lower voltage, i.e. use more hashing chips to get same performance and chips are not free.

Would you rather make $86/day and pay $30/day for power = profit of $56 or
make $43/day and pay $5 for power = profit of $38

In about 18-24 months, the power savings could still allow the chip to be profitable when diff is closing in on 10 billion  Grin

This chip will not produce any meaningful hashing beyond 45 weeks at 2% hash rate increase a day that is coming
hero member
Activity: 882
Merit: 547
BTC Mining Hardware, Trading and more
In about 18-24 months, the power savings could still allow the chip to be profitable when diff is closing in on 10 billion  Grin
+1
hero member
Activity: 631
Merit: 500
In about 18-24 months, the power savings could still allow the chip to be profitable when diff is closing in on 10 billion  Grin
legendary
Activity: 1029
Merit: 1000
Look at the whole perspective.
Those chips are designed to be powered in serial. So DC/DC converters can be simpler  and cheaper (less current). And this leads to smaller PCB, smaller heatsinks, smaller cases, less noise from fans, higher density GH/cm2.... Ideally for datacenters where every watt counts. So this ratio 6/2 makes ALOT of sense...
full member
Activity: 130
Merit: 100
..... Also despite what galaxyASIC said seems that I have mastered to design $10 million-worth logic cell library (he claimed that such research costs in range of $10 million USD). If that job is really that complex and chip works, then this technology costs more than $10 million ALONE. But - need to wait of course to check error rates. Without real hashing and reading error rates it can be overestimated and real hash rate can be twice less (clock). Well - and also of course there may be minor bug that ruins whole thing, because development time was very short - that are current questions, not power consumption.


I don't remember claiming that it's cost $10M.

But I did calculation over the weekend and result is that it's completely worthless endeavor to run chip in 0.5-0.6 volts vs running it at standard 1.0-1.1 volts for bitcoin projects to the consumer. So, low voltage chip is just a marketing BS. Running chips at low voltage makes sense to someone who gets them at their cost of manufacturing (~$1-$2), in which case using more chips maybe less expensive in supporting components than running them at maximum with more expensive components to handle extra power.

Savings in cost of power vs getting less Bitcoins at a ratio of something as high as 6/2 will yield ~48.76% less bitcoins if run from day one on low power and if switched at most optimal time from full power to low power only yields less than 0.32%, less than third of one percent.

(6 times less power at 2 times less performance)

You will just end up using more chips and more electronic components and PCB to get to the same performance and since power use by any ASICs is already very low and cost per kW is not $4 but only $0.10-$0.40, there is no point in ruining chips at low power to the consumer.
For low voltage chip make any financial sense, power needs to cost over $4/kW

But if he can achieve it, then it will be just an ego stroke.Smiley

Lesson? Do cost/benefit analysis before you spend a lot of money.
hero member
Activity: 924
Merit: 1000
Sign me up Smiley   I work in IC packaging business as well and I have 3 E.E. engineers at my disposal.  Bachelors, Masters and PHD.  I have 2 Russian speakers too...one with PHD. E.E.

message me what you need and how I can help you or be a part of your team Smiley
full member
Activity: 224
Merit: 100
Thank you for the explanation! now I get the idea  Smiley

(he claimed that such research costs in range of $10 million USD)
You would deserve that $10 million if this works Cheesy

He'll make $10 Million, if this works. Wink
sr. member
Activity: 427
Merit: 251
- electronics design|embedded software|verilog -
Connected the SPI bus of the S-HASH board to a (bare)
bitfury test jig. And to make sure things won't get
too hot when things start hashing, all boards were
insulated with Kapton tape and bolted to a heat sink
I found laying around somewhere.

http://imgur.com/IpmxrUa

Waiting for some components to come in, then I
can test the level shifters and the SPI link.

As soon I have a bit of time the Avalon S-HASH
board will be redesigned for bitfury ASICs.

intron

(PS: There will be no Rasberry Pi or PC running
cgminer or whatever to keep the hashers busy.
S-HASH has networking and will work stand-alone
if things go as planned.)

If You have SPI at 1.2V - 1.8V You can start communicating without shifter.

Have an ARM Cortex M3 operating on 3V3, so there is no 1V2 - 1V8 IO.

intron
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