Topic: [ANN] Blacknet | IBO for BlackCoin | New code | PoS | No ICO - page 1033. (Read 2510369 times)

Quote from: gonzoucab on April 10, 2014, 09:06:56 AM

Quote from: gonzoucab on April 10, 2014, 08:36:59 AM

Quote from: hellyeahent on April 10, 2014, 07:32:16 AM

about security: could someone explain how we could be hacked ? (pos) I know ppl have to have wallets opened, but how many coins/ppl/whatever ?

Technically you need 51% of all blackcoins to perform a hack in terms of double spending etc. Theoretically the required amount of coins is smaller if an attacker is able to precompute the chain, but this is open research afaik.

20% is enough to do double-spending attacks from time to time (like once per month) with no direct costs.

20% of active stakes at the moment off course, less active stakes, less security, less interest make less actives stakers

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/22aw8c/most_altcoins_are_not_secure_enough_they_exist/

Well this comment was related to PeerCoin and the actual statement is:

Quote

20% is enough to do double-spending attacks from time to time (like once per month) with no direct costs.
I haven't done analysis on 51% attack on ppc, and I really doubt 20% will be enough.

I don't want to say that you are wrong, but want to stress that these topics are very hot (and interesting) and not completely understood yet [edit: by the larger audience, brains like rat4 surely have a better understanding].

Thats Right, what make me think its that is only 20% of active stakes.
On LOW REWARD POS, less people gonna be willing to active stake,

Its just that in crypto security came from miners, less rewards to miners make less relaltive security

I think that this can be a problem just like for Doge is (low early pow reward) that can be BC problem (using analogy)

But unlike in Doge in PoS there is no real work that has to be done, so basically there is no reason not to stake as long as you have a device running that is able to stake. When did you switch off your mobile phone last time?

Te reason not to stake is the LOW INTEREST!, the less that you get paid for doing something the less you are gonna do it. With a greater initial POS reward people will be more willing to stake their coins.

On android always stacking will mean It will also drain battery LIFE (Not desireable) so people will shut it down most of the time.

That's what I am saying. AFAIK the only difference between staking and not staking is the ability to broadcast a block to the network, which costs the energy in terms of the broadcasting operation and requires a small amount of the data volume.

I think these factors are negligible. And with no significant cost even a 1% interest rate is worth it, the only drawback is the limited availability of the actual balance.

This. Although the math may make sense in a 'laboratory environment' the simple fact is that there is no comparison between PoW and PoS as far as actual operation. If the BTC blockchain was secured by every open wallet, to the exclusion of PoW block creation... then the likelihood of a successful 'forgery' would drop to a value not even statistically viable.... as you would need to control not only the majority of the hashrate, but also a majority of the active addresses represented by the wallets themselves. This would basically have 1 chance of success and about a billion of failure... every time you tried it.

To some extent that's what you have with PoS... as the 'mining' is done by the wallet - with near 0 energy cost, and at a speed which is very fast... there's really no 'downside' to staking other than from a personal security standpoint (which to me is the real achilles heel of PoS in some ways). In other words - if you aren't afraid of having your wallet on a computer connected to the Internet - then there's no reason to not be staking your coins... as 1% is still pure profit!

In reality, the biggest mitigating factor to this 'problem' with PoS coins and BC in particular - is market cap. Right now (provided people were willing to sell that is) you could theoretically buy enough BC for about $1M USD... however, once you had that - it would be nearly impossible to capitalize on that resource... since doing it successfully would virtually guarantee that your invested holdings would lose their value the instant it was discovered. If the market cap reaches even $30M - wish is still far less than LTC - then it would require ~$7-10M for the requisite amount.

So essentially, the only applicable question is... do you believe there is already someone who invested tens of thousands of dollars or the equivalent value in BTC in BC... who actually wants to destroy BC in the near future (along with any real profit potential for themselves down the road). I agree that this world is a very weird place today, but I still think this is a non-issue for us.

EDIT: I should say, and that the person (should they exist) would rather destroy BC completely - along with their investment - rather than simply continue to see gains that no other vehicle current - especially in crypto currency land - is capable of. At that point you're talking about ideological terrorism at the exclusion of greed and self preservation. This does occur, but despite what Homeland Security might have us believe... it's still representative of less than .00001% of the population (and yes I made that up... it's probably a much smaller percentage even than that). Cheesy

Quite right. My own calculations on this topic were the same, for all intents and purposes. I think if the criminal in question had any sense of probabilities, he would take a different course anyway: He would invest the 1mil USD in powerball tickets in hopes of winning enough money to fund more effective terrorism. It is THIS scenario that I think we must be more concerned about.

8Lemonade

newbie

Activity: 9

Merit: 0

I'll take a card as well! Thanks for the effort

vizique

legendary

Activity: 2435

Merit: 1642

Quote from: IconicExpert on April 10, 2014, 08:16:43 AM

A Few Announcements!!!

1.) First I want to thank everyone who supported Blackout Wednesday! Our press release was read over 100,000 times on over 111 sites: https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22BlackCoin%20Popularity%20%26%20Value%20Soars%20Due%20to%20Revolutionary%22

2.) As everyone here might already know BlackCoin is being added to CoinKite! They have a debit card that can be branded and used at their shops. SoepKip notified me a few days ago about the news and a decision was made I will not longer produce a separate Visa card. We do not want to cause confusion in the marketplace, and we also do not want to incite unnecessary competition amongst ourselves. Instead, I have decided to support the CoinKite project and use my resources in helping that partnership grow.

3.) As I previously announced I will be using my own resources to quickly build a network and infrastructure around BlackCoin. I wholeheartedly disagree this coin or community should take baby steps. We need more talented people who are willing to help in any way they can to help this community grow.

4.) Finally... Today I would like to announce the BlackCoin Card Wallet. As some of you know I am software and product developer, and since CoinKite will eventually supply our debit cards, I wanted to shift focus and create something special for the community. I contacted rat4 and Soepkip about a portable BC wallet the size of a credit card. The dev team liked the idea so I began immediately making it happen.

So what exactly is the Blackcoin Card Wallet?

The BlackCoin Card Wallet is a completely branded BC card with a pull out USB dongle. It will be loaded with a custom BlackCoin start menu and the wallet pre loaded. When you insert the wallet into your computer the menu will automatically launch, and you will have access to your wallet, current market prices, BC news, and other elements all in one place! What makes this exciting is you will not only be able to keep your wallet with you at all times, in the event you need to access your funds you will be able to do it at any Windows computer. The blockchain and all other data will already be loaded on the card. (Obviously if you do not plug the card in regularly it will take longer for it to sync). Also, the launcher will automatically update the wallet to the current version automatically.

Another benefit of the card is you can pre-load as many coins as you like and give the cards away to family and friends as "gift cards". They will not need to be tech savvy to use it! Just insert and go! This is a great way to introduce others to BlackCoin.

And lets be honest, wouldn't it be cool to walk around with a BlackCoin wallet card with the sexy logo?

Tomorrow for "Blackfriday" I will be posting pics and taking pre-orders. I am taking pre-orders because this is the first run of the product and I have no clue how much demand there will be. I do not want to under manufacture or over manufacture since there is considerable cost involved. Production time is approximately 2 weeks and I will be shipping immediately upon receipt of the product. The card will cost $19.99 (BC of course) and that includes free shipping worldwide. So if you live on a private island I will still ship it to you for free :-). The first batch created will be also branded with "Special Edition" and other cool goodies I do not want to mention just yet. Some of the proceeds from each sale will go to the dev team and back into this community to fund other projects. A website is currently being developed for the card and once we are live I will be doing a promotional campaign promoting BC and the card!!!

Well done you!! Very impressive.

I'll certainly be in for at least one of those cards maybe more.... keep us posted on progress.

I've also been in touch with Bittylicious as I have done quite a lot of business with them over the last year. Add this to the ATM and retails projects and products we are developing here and critical mass is beginning to happen.

exposebc

newbie

Activity: 41

Merit: 0

I could summarize this post with one word "Auroracoin".

I rode Auroracoin all the way up to $90 and was celebrating. I'm only thankful I sold on the way down at $20.

Guess what? I will NEVER touch that coin again. I simply can not trust it.

We want volume, market depth, slow steady appreciation and lots and lots of stability.

We want to be a safe crypto to accumulate.

Those sell walls need to fall from new money that sees this coin as having long-term potential. New money buying from profit takers until their hoard is exhausted.

Yesterday's efforts will bring some new money, mining brings new money and we the true believers can keep adding to our investment.

And yes, buy as an investment. Not to be on the right side of the latest crypto-pump.

Pumpers & dumpers are destroyers - their gain is ill-gotten. They may profit but lose a bit of their soul in the process.

Investors build; patiently putting their money and hearts into a vision they also hope to profit from.

So I say take heart my friends, lets buy and lets build.

noerc

sr. member

Activity: 248

Merit: 250

Quote from: digicidal on April 10, 2014, 09:50:32 AM

In reality, the biggest mitigating factor to this 'problem' with PoS coins and BC in particular - is market cap.

That's indeed a point that is also bothering me. If tomorrow somebody with a lot of money sees a threat in BC then currently he could easily just "pay the price" to destroy it completely.

digicidal

sr. member

Activity: 392

Merit: 250

Quote from: noerc on April 10, 2014, 09:31:47 AM

Quote from: gonzoucab on April 10, 2014, 09:25:03 AM

Quote from: gonzoucab on April 10, 2014, 09:06:56 AM

Quote from: gonzoucab on April 10, 2014, 08:36:59 AM

Quote from: hellyeahent on April 10, 2014, 07:32:16 AM

about security: could someone explain how we could be hacked ? (pos) I know ppl have to have wallets opened, but how many coins/ppl/whatever ?

Technically you need 51% of all blackcoins to perform a hack in terms of double spending etc. Theoretically the required amount of coins is smaller if an attacker is able to precompute the chain, but this is open research afaik.

20% is enough to do double-spending attacks from time to time (like once per month) with no direct costs.

20% of active stakes at the moment off course, less active stakes, less security, less interest make less actives stakers

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/22aw8c/most_altcoins_are_not_secure_enough_they_exist/

Well this comment was related to PeerCoin and the actual statement is:

Quote

20% is enough to do double-spending attacks from time to time (like once per month) with no direct costs.
I haven't done analysis on 51% attack on ppc, and I really doubt 20% will be enough.

I don't want to say that you are wrong, but want to stress that these topics are very hot (and interesting) and not completely understood yet [edit: by the larger audience, brains like rat4 surely have a better understanding].

Thats Right, what make me think its that is only 20% of active stakes.
On LOW REWARD POS, less people gonna be willing to active stake,

Its just that in crypto security came from miners, less rewards to miners make less relaltive security

I think that this can be a problem just like for Doge is (low early pow reward) that can be BC problem (using analogy)

But unlike in Doge in PoS there is no real work that has to be done, so basically there is no reason not to stake as long as you have a device running that is able to stake. When did you switch off your mobile phone last time?

Te reason not to stake is the LOW INTEREST!, the less that you get paid for doing something the less you are gonna do it. With a greater initial POS reward people will be more willing to stake their coins.

On android always stacking will mean It will also drain battery LIFE (Not desireable) so people will shut it down most of the time.

That's what I am saying. AFAIK the only difference between staking and not staking is the ability to broadcast a block to the network, which costs the energy in terms of the broadcasting operation and requires a small amount of the data volume.

I think these factors are negligible. And with no significant cost even a 1% interest rate is worth it, the only drawback is the limited availability of the actual balance.

This. Although the math may make sense in a 'laboratory environment' the simple fact is that there is no comparison between PoW and PoS as far as actual operation. If the BTC blockchain was secured by every open wallet, to the exclusion of PoW block creation... then the likelihood of a successful 'forgery' would drop to a value not even statistically viable.... as you would need to control not only the majority of the hashrate, but also a majority of the active addresses represented by the wallets themselves. This would basically have 1 chance of success and about a billion of failure... every time you tried it.

To some extent that's what you have with PoS... as the 'mining' is done by the wallet - with near 0 energy cost, and at a speed which is very fast... there's really no 'downside' to staking other than from a personal security standpoint (which to me is the real achilles heel of PoS in some ways). In other words - if you aren't afraid of having your wallet on a computer connected to the Internet - then there's no reason to not be staking your coins... as 1% is still pure profit!

In reality, the biggest mitigating factor to this 'problem' with PoS coins and BC in particular - is market cap. Right now (provided people were willing to sell that is) you could theoretically buy enough BC for about $1M USD... however, once you had that - it would be nearly impossible to capitalize on that resource... since doing it successfully would virtually guarantee that your invested holdings would lose their value the instant it was discovered. If the market cap reaches even $30M - wish is still far less than LTC - then it would require ~$7-10M for the requisite amount.

So essentially, the only applicable question is... do you believe there is already someone who invested tens of thousands of dollars or the equivalent value in BTC in BC... who actually wants to destroy BC in the near future (along with any real profit potential for themselves down the road). I agree that this world is a very weird place today, but I still think this is a non-issue for us.

EDIT: I should say, and that the person (should they exist) would rather destroy BC completely - along with their investment - rather than simply continue to see gains that no other vehicle current - especially in crypto currency land - is capable of. At that point you're talking about ideological terrorism at the exclusion of greed and self preservation. This does occur, but despite what Homeland Security might have us believe... it's still representative of less than .00001% of the population (and yes I made that up... it's probably a much smaller percentage even than that). Cheesy

lethagized

newbie

Activity: 37

Merit: 0

I'll take a card as well please IE. Great stuff so far lad. You're doing us all proud

noerc

sr. member

Activity: 248

Merit: 250

Quote from: gonzoucab on April 10, 2014, 09:25:03 AM

Quote from: gonzoucab on April 10, 2014, 09:06:56 AM

Quote from: gonzoucab on April 10, 2014, 08:36:59 AM

Quote from: hellyeahent on April 10, 2014, 07:32:16 AM

about security: could someone explain how we could be hacked ? (pos) I know ppl have to have wallets opened, but how many coins/ppl/whatever ?

Technically you need 51% of all blackcoins to perform a hack in terms of double spending etc. Theoretically the required amount of coins is smaller if an attacker is able to precompute the chain, but this is open research afaik.

20% is enough to do double-spending attacks from time to time (like once per month) with no direct costs.

20% of active stakes at the moment off course, less active stakes, less security, less interest make less actives stakers

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/22aw8c/most_altcoins_are_not_secure_enough_they_exist/

Well this comment was related to PeerCoin and the actual statement is:

Quote

20% is enough to do double-spending attacks from time to time (like once per month) with no direct costs.
I haven't done analysis on 51% attack on ppc, and I really doubt 20% will be enough.

I don't want to say that you are wrong, but want to stress that these topics are very hot (and interesting) and not completely understood yet [edit: by the larger audience, brains like rat4 surely have a better understanding].

Thats Right, what make me think its that is only 20% of active stakes.
On LOW REWARD POS, less people gonna be willing to active stake,

Its just that in crypto security came from miners, less rewards to miners make less relaltive security

I think that this can be a problem just like for Doge is (low early pow reward) that can be BC problem (using analogy)

But unlike in Doge in PoS there is no real work that has to be done, so basically there is no reason not to stake as long as you have a device running that is able to stake. When did you switch off your mobile phone last time?

Te reason not to stake is the LOW INTEREST!, the less that you get paid for doing something the less you are gonna do it. With a greater initial POS reward people will be more willing to stake their coins.

On android always stacking will mean It will also drain battery LIFE (Not desireable) so people will shut it down most of the time.

That's what I am saying. AFAIK the only difference between staking and not staking is the ability to broadcast a block to the network, which costs the energy in terms of the broadcasting operation and requires a small amount of the data volume.

I think these factors are negligible. And with no significant cost even a 1% interest rate is worth it, the only drawback is the limited availability of the actual balance.

MuffinMaster

sr. member

Activity: 1414

Merit: 265

Pepemo.vip

Quote from: gonzoucab on April 10, 2014, 09:25:03 AM

Te reason not to stake is the LOW INTEREST!, the less that you get paid for doing something the less you are gonna do it. With a greater initial POS reward people will be more willing to stake their coins.

On android always stacking will mean It will also drain battery LIFE (Not desireable) so people will shut it down most of the time.

Anyone who keep large amounts of anycoin on android kinda deserves whatever they get. since blackcoin transactions take seconds, just take what you need and go. No need to stake on android. I do the same thing with bitcoin. I never keep large amounts of bitcoin on android even with backups. Little point.

Stop trying to make this an issue when its not.

gonzoucab

newbie

Activity: 42

Merit: 0

Quote from: gonzoucab on April 10, 2014, 09:06:56 AM

Quote from: gonzoucab on April 10, 2014, 08:36:59 AM