[ANN] ChipMixer.com - Bitcoin mixer / Bitcoin tumbler - mixing reinvented - page 125.

HeRetiK

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Quote from: audaciousbeing on August 26, 2017, 10:44:49 AM

Quote from: HCP on August 25, 2017, 05:35:44 PM

It is a total fallacy that only criminals use Bitcoin and Bitcoin mixers... It is just FUD being spread by "enforcement" agencies concerned that their job is being made harder.

They are attempting to paint Bitcoin and Cryptocurrency as the devil to convince law makers to give them all sorts of extra powers...

The 1% get a bit nervous when the peons find new ways to circumvent their systems (fiat banking) and start to discover ways to cut them out of the loop.

Besides, if everyone is using a mixer, are they going to accuse everyone of being a criminal? We'd all be much "safer" if everyone used anonymizing services... They can't arrest everyone Tongue

This is something a lot of people have some level of understanding and what mixing services should be about. In that for the mere fact of using bitcoin, you are by default wanting to stay anonymous either you using for services or for payment so then I don't see anything wrong in trying to take it further in using mixing services.

It's all part of the post-privacy way of thinking. The whole narrative about having nothing to hide.

When everyone claims that they having nothing to hide, people who want to keep some form of privacy are automatically suspicious. Private individuals become more and more transparent while governments and corporations become more and more opaque, while ideally it should be the other way round. You can see a similar way of thinking surrounding the TOR browser.

audaciousbeing

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Quote from: HCP on August 25, 2017, 05:35:44 PM

It is a total fallacy that only criminals use Bitcoin and Bitcoin mixers... It is just FUD being spread by "enforcement" agencies concerned that their job is being made harder.

They are attempting to paint Bitcoin and Cryptocurrency as the devil to convince law makers to give them all sorts of extra powers...

The 1% get a bit nervous when the peons find new ways to circumvent their systems (fiat banking) and start to discover ways to cut them out of the loop.

Besides, if everyone is using a mixer, are they going to accuse everyone of being a criminal? We'd all be much "safer" if everyone used anonymizing services... They can't arrest everyone Tongue

This is something a lot of people have some level of understanding and what mixing services should be about. In that for the mere fact of using bitcoin, you are by default wanting to stay anonymous either you using for services or for payment so then I don't see anything wrong in trying to take it further in using mixing services.

ChipMixer

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Quote from: LoyceV on August 25, 2017, 05:34:55 PM

Does that mean that if I open ChipMixer in my browser now, copy the deposit address, and close the site, you'll reuse this same address for someone else later?
Doesn't that open the possibility to "harvest" deposit addresses, to later on see which addresses sent money to your mixer?

If unused addresses are reused in such a way, it would be better to never reuse them.

Yes, you could harvest deposit addresses this way, but the same can be achieved with blockchain analysis.

We have started discussion about how Segwit / LN can be used to increase Bitcoin privacy and their usage with Bitcoin mixing:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/bitcoin-mixing-and-segwit-2120757

HCP

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It is a total fallacy that only criminals use Bitcoin and Bitcoin mixers... It is just FUD being spread by "enforcement" agencies concerned that their job is being made harder.

They are attempting to paint Bitcoin and Cryptocurrency as the devil to convince law makers to give them all sorts of extra powers...

The 1% get a bit nervous when the peons find new ways to circumvent their systems (fiat banking) and start to discover ways to cut them out of the loop.

Besides, if everyone is using a mixer, are they going to accuse everyone of being a criminal? We'd all be much "safer" if everyone used anonymizing services... They can't arrest everyone Tongue

LoyceV

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Quote from: ChipMixer on August 25, 2017, 04:59:43 PM

Quote from: OmegaStarScream on August 25, 2017, 09:44:13 AM

The deposit addresses are uniquely generated for each new deposit?

No, there is a chance to reuse an unused deposit address.

Does that mean that if I open ChipMixer in my browser now, copy the deposit address, and close the site, you'll reuse this same address for someone else later?
Doesn't that open the possibility to "harvest" deposit addresses, to later on see which addresses sent money to your mixer?

If unused addresses are reused in such a way, it would be better to never reuse them.

ChipMixer

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https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1935098

Quote from: richardsNY on August 24, 2017, 06:26:08 PM

According to your FAQ, it states that it is possible to deposit a weird number of coins such as 1.024 BTC, to be offered a 1 BTC chip that you can withdraw.

First question -- if I for example deposit 1.01 BTC, will I then still have the option to get that 1 BTC chip, or is it required to deposit that 1.024 BTC as minimum?

Second question -- is this 1 BTC chip the highest possible value, or can we also get 2 or 5 BTC chips (the FAQ doesn't state this information)?

First question -- you can exchange 1.024 BTC chip for 1 BTC chip. This action is called "commonize" and is currently disabled.
Second question -- highest possible value of a chip is 4.096 BTC. Highest commonized chip is 4 BTC.

Quote from: OmegaStarScream on August 25, 2017, 09:44:13 AM

The deposit addresses are uniquely generated for each new deposit?

No, there is a chance to reuse an unused deposit address.

Quote from: mk4 on August 25, 2017, 06:54:39 AM

I definitely wouldn't want to look suspicious. This might come of as a turnoff for innocent people wanting to use mixers. Undecided

Because only a criminal would want some privacy.

OmegaStarScream

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The deposit addresses are uniquely generated for each new deposit? or its possible to come across the same address by multiple users? I know that this is not much important because the withdrawal addresses are unique but people could still know If you have used a mixer or not.

mk4

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Quote from: mocacinno on August 22, 2017, 07:14:13 AM

Quote from: LoyceV on August 22, 2017, 05:40:20 AM

Quote from: mocacinno on August 22, 2017, 01:43:16 AM

Wouldn't that be something completely different than the current way bitmixer works? In my opinion, the power of bitmixer lays in the fact that the chips are pre-generated before you even deposit any funds into your bitmixer session.
If you were requesting different chipsizes, chipmixer would either have to generate these chipsizes on request before any deposit happened, or they would have to generate them afterwards (which would not seem like a good idear to me, bitmixer would lose some of its appeal to me)

Did you forget what you're advertising?

Good catch, i meant chipmixer offcourse Grin

(all these years of bitmixer being the only reliable mixer around made me develop a habit of typing bitmixer)...

I'll edit the first post!

LOL. An ex-bitmixer campaign member perhaps? Cheesy

Quote from: HeRetiK on August 23, 2017, 03:27:44 AM

Quote from: btcton on August 23, 2017, 02:05:10 AM

Hey, I was reading through your FAQs and I found the following excerpt:

"Our goal is to make Bitcoin value independent of its blockchain history. Some governments and corporations wants to invalidate its value by claiming they are connected to something immoral like gambling. Every time you withdraw from ChipMixer, we give you cryptographically signed receipt that proves you have received those funds from us. Since the disconnection of history is proven, there can be no loss of value."

I understand how ending up with bitcoin from an address related to a an address linked back to illegal or immoral activity could make you seem suspicious of something and how the receipt can claim the money is sourced from a mixer. However, couldn't this also be used the other way around to say that the money was gotten from a mixer and therefore it was originally from an illegal activity/money laundering. Of course, this is a backwards way of thinking and completely wrong, but just an example of times in which forces such as the government are looking for reasons to steal the money and this might not fully help. It is always good to have the option, however.

Better to look suspicious than to look guilty of a crime you didn't commit. In general innocent-until-proven-guilty still has to apply, everything else is just conjecture. Question being of course whether they will make mixing itself illegal in a given legislature (ie. defining the usage of a mixer as money laundering).

I personally don't use bitcoin mixers, but does withdrawals only come from one or a few addresses? Because I'm pretty sure not all people that use mixers are actually guilty of a certain crime. I could see myself using a mixer in the future if I would like to move my bitcoins into another wallet using a mixer mainly just so that my funds somewhat are untraceable(not because I did a crime); but at the same time I definitely wouldn't want to look suspicious. This might come of as a turnoff for innocent people wanting to use mixers. Undecided

richardsNY

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According to your FAQ, it states that it is possible to deposit a weird number of coins such as 1.024 BTC, to be offered a 1 BTC chip that you can withdraw.

First question -- if I for example deposit 1.01 BTC, will I then still have the option to get that 1 BTC chip, or is it required to deposit that 1.024 BTC as minimum?

Second question -- is this 1 BTC chip the highest possible value, or can we also get 2 or 5 BTC chips (the FAQ doesn't state this information)?

ChipMixer

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https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1935098

Quote from: magneto on August 23, 2017, 04:22:57 AM

I really just wanted to get an idea of how big Chipmixer is right now. Could you even release some info on the 24h volume, or how much money is being mixed in a day's time? Or is that sensitive info as well? (sorry if it is, i'm just curious.).

It is a valid concern of mixer customer to think about mixer volume. If your deposit is much higher than average deposit then your privacy is at risk. At least when you use bitmixer-type tumbler. With ChipMixer you always withdraw old chips and that hides the flaw.
ChipMixer recommends to deposit up to 10 BTC per single session.

ChipMixer

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Quote from: btcton on August 23, 2017, 02:05:10 AM

I understand how ending up with bitcoin from an address related to a an address linked back to illegal or immoral activity could make you seem suspicious of something and how the receipt can claim the money is sourced from a mixer. However, couldn't this also be used the other way around to say that the money was gotten from a mixer and therefore it was originally from an illegal activity/money laundering.

Using mixer is like using encryption - it is for privacy and it is not illegal (yet). Same argument could be used with Bitcoin - you have Bitcoins so you do something illegal/money laundering. It is drug dealers and terrorists currency! Governments wants to ban encryption and use the same arguments. Proof that you used mixer is the same as proof you have encrypted hard drive or you use https.

Quote from: LoyceV on August 23, 2017, 03:15:07 AM

it comes down to a judge trusting an anonymous source (BitMixer or ChipMixer).

As long as judge understands cryptography it comes to judge trusting cryptographic proof of a known identity. We are a witness. We do not have an interest in the case. We have no reason to lie. Our public key is known and unchanged since the begin of ChipMixer. If users trust us with their money based on our reputation then why judge would not trust us.

Quote from: LoyceV on August 23, 2017, 03:15:07 AM

Playing devil's advocate you could argue BitMixer can still use their address to sign from after closing, and that signature can say anything they want.

Yes, they still can sign and it should still be trusted. Satoshi also went "out of business" but if somebody signs something with their key then we would trust that.

magneto

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Quote from: ChipMixer on August 22, 2017, 08:19:07 AM

Quote from: 1Referee on August 21, 2017, 05:10:35 PM

I from time to time need to hand out payments to a wide variety of people, but at this point there is no way I can send an exact amount of coins to a certain address if I choose the option to have ChipMixer send various chip values to whatever address. The fees that ChipMixer deducts for the transaction will always result in an odd amount to be sent to the provided address.

ChipMixer is not a wallet but a privacy tool. Sweeping option is there for people who does not know how to import private keys into their wallet.

Quote from: magneto on August 22, 2017, 06:27:38 AM

I was wondering if there was still any bitcoin cash left to claim in any of the private keys? Or basically in a simpler way, whether any of the private keys or chips that you guys have still happen to have funding that occurred before 1st August?

No. When we have reenabled ChipMixer after fork all available chips that contained both BTC and BCH were withdrawn by users in 12h. That high traffic seemed weird at that time but now we know somebody predicted value of forked coin.

Quote from: magneto on August 22, 2017, 06:27:38 AM

Also, may i ask what's the total amount of chips in existence? Both number wise, and value wise. I know this may be sensitive info, but please respond with an approximation at least if possible. Thank you!

This is sensitive info, sorry.

Ah okay, it's not surprising really considering the fact that BCH was worth a several hundred dollars even back then when the fork just happened(it's obviously a lot higher now), people must have been taking advantage of the chips containing BCH, i guess.

And yeah, i definitely understand why you're protecting that info.

I really just wanted to get an idea of how big Chipmixer is right now. Could you even release some info on the 24h volume, or how much money is being mixed in a day's time? Or is that sensitive info as well? (sorry if it is, i'm just curious.).

HeRetiK

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Quote from: btcton on August 23, 2017, 02:05:10 AM

Hey, I was reading through your FAQs and I found the following excerpt:

"Our goal is to make Bitcoin value independent of its blockchain history. Some governments and corporations wants to invalidate its value by claiming they are connected to something immoral like gambling. Every time you withdraw from ChipMixer, we give you cryptographically signed receipt that proves you have received those funds from us. Since the disconnection of history is proven, there can be no loss of value."

I understand how ending up with bitcoin from an address related to a an address linked back to illegal or immoral activity could make you seem suspicious of something and how the receipt can claim the money is sourced from a mixer. However, couldn't this also be used the other way around to say that the money was gotten from a mixer and therefore it was originally from an illegal activity/money laundering. Of course, this is a backwards way of thinking and completely wrong, but just an example of times in which forces such as the government are looking for reasons to steal the money and this might not fully help. It is always good to have the option, however.

Better to look suspicious than to look guilty of a crime you didn't commit. In general innocent-until-proven-guilty still has to apply, everything else is just conjecture. Question being of course whether they will make mixing itself illegal in a given legislature (ie. defining the usage of a mixer as money laundering).

LoyceV

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Quote from: btcton on August 23, 2017, 02:05:10 AM

I understand how ending up with bitcoin from an address related to a an address linked back to illegal or immoral activity could make you seem suspicious of something and how the receipt can claim the money is sourced from a mixer. However, couldn't this also be used the other way around to say that the money was gotten from a mixer and therefore it was originally from an illegal activity/money laundering.

That is actually what the Dutch government wants to do: if you have Bitcoins from a mixer, they want that to be considered suspicious by default. I don't think that law has passed yet though.
If they reverse the normal procedure where they have to prove you did something wrong into you having to prove you're innocent, then yes, mixing doesn't help you.

Quote

Of course, this is a backwards way of thinking and completely wrong, but just an example of times in which forces such as the government are looking for reasons to steal the money and this might not fully help. It is always good to have the option, however.

I wondered about something else (when BitMixer closed): suppose you end up in court for whatever reason, and you show a signature from either BitMixer or ChipMixer. That signature is supposed to prove you got money from the mixer, so you're not involved in the crime they are trying to convinct you for.
BixMixer used that signature as a selling point, but I wonder if there has ever been a lawsuit in which it was actually used. And if so, it comes down to a judge trusting an anonymous source (BitMixer or ChipMixer). Playing devil's advocate you could argue BitMixer can still use their address to sign from after closing, and that signature can say anything they want.

btcton

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Hey, I was reading through your FAQs and I found the following excerpt:

"Our goal is to make Bitcoin value independent of its blockchain history. Some governments and corporations wants to invalidate its value by claiming they are connected to something immoral like gambling. Every time you withdraw from ChipMixer, we give you cryptographically signed receipt that proves you have received those funds from us. Since the disconnection of history is proven, there can be no loss of value."

I understand how ending up with bitcoin from an address related to a an address linked back to illegal or immoral activity could make you seem suspicious of something and how the receipt can claim the money is sourced from a mixer. However, couldn't this also be used the other way around to say that the money was gotten from a mixer and therefore it was originally from an illegal activity/money laundering. Of course, this is a backwards way of thinking and completely wrong, but just an example of times in which forces such as the government are looking for reasons to steal the money and this might not fully help. It is always good to have the option, however.

ChipMixer

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https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1935098

Quote from: 1Referee on August 21, 2017, 05:10:35 PM

I from time to time need to hand out payments to a wide variety of people, but at this point there is no way I can send an exact amount of coins to a certain address if I choose the option to have ChipMixer send various chip values to whatever address. The fees that ChipMixer deducts for the transaction will always result in an odd amount to be sent to the provided address.

ChipMixer is not a wallet but a privacy tool. Sweeping option is there for people who does not know how to import private keys into their wallet.

Quote from: magneto on August 22, 2017, 06:27:38 AM

I was wondering if there was still any bitcoin cash left to claim in any of the private keys? Or basically in a simpler way, whether any of the private keys or chips that you guys have still happen to have funding that occurred before 1st August?

No. When we have reenabled ChipMixer after fork all available chips that contained both BTC and BCH were withdrawn by users in 12h. That high traffic seemed weird at that time but now we know somebody predicted value of forked coin.

Quote from: magneto on August 22, 2017, 06:27:38 AM

Also, may i ask what's the total amount of chips in existence? Both number wise, and value wise. I know this may be sensitive info, but please respond with an approximation at least if possible. Thank you!

This is sensitive info, sorry.

mocacinno

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Quote from: LoyceV on August 22, 2017, 05:40:20 AM

Quote from: mocacinno on August 22, 2017, 01:43:16 AM

Wouldn't that be something completely different than the current way bitmixer works? In my opinion, the power of bitmixer lays in the fact that the chips are pre-generated before you even deposit any funds into your bitmixer session.
If you were requesting different chipsizes, chipmixer would either have to generate these chipsizes on request before any deposit happened, or they would have to generate them afterwards (which would not seem like a good idear to me, bitmixer would lose some of its appeal to me)

Did you forget what you're advertising?

Good catch, i meant chipmixer offcourse Grin

(all these years of bitmixer being the only reliable mixer around made me develop a habit of typing bitmixer)...

I'll edit the first post!

magneto

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I was wondering if there was still any bitcoin cash left to claim in any of the private keys? Or basically in a simpler way, whether any of the private keys or chips that you guys have still happen to have funding that occurred before 1st August?

I remember you guys saying at the start of this month that that was the case, but obviously the fork has been a while now.

Also, may i ask what's the total amount of chips in existence? Both number wise, and value wise. I know this may be sensitive info, but please respond with an approximation at least if possible. Thank you!

LoyceV

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Quote from: 1Referee on August 21, 2017, 05:10:35 PM

I from time to time need to hand out payments to a wide variety of people, but at this point there is no way I can send an exact amount of coins to a certain address if I choose the option to have ChipMixer send various chip values to whatever address. The fees that ChipMixer deducts for the transaction will always result in an odd amount to be sent to the provided address.

I was thinking about something like this;

Chip 0.015BTC -> withdraw exactly 0.0125BTC (where the rest of the chip value serves as fee and donation).
Chip 0.02BTC -> withdraw exactly 0.018BTC (where the rest of the chip value serves as fee and donation).

In other words, I would like to manually input a value to be withdrawn (obviously always lower than the main chip value due to fees and such). See it as extra convenience for the end user.

Chipmixer doesn't have 0.015 and 0.02 BTC chips. If you want to make multiple payments, you save a lot on fees if you make them in one transaction. Bitcoin Core can do this, Electrum too.
Paying 0.015 to send 0.0125 seems very inefficient to me, I don't think many people would use that option.

Quote from: mocacinno on August 22, 2017, 01:43:16 AM

Wouldn't that be something completely different than the current way bitmixer works? In my opinion, the power of bitmixer lays in the fact that the chips are pre-generated before you even deposit any funds into your bitmixer session.
If you were requesting different chipsizes, chipmixer would either have to generate these chipsizes on request before any deposit happened, or they would have to generate them afterwards (which would not seem like a good idear to me, bitmixer would lose some of its appeal to me)

Did you forget what you're advertising?

mocacinno

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https://merel.mobi => buy facemasks with BTC/LTC

Quote from: 1Referee on August 21, 2017, 05:10:35 PM

I from time to time need to hand out payments to a wide variety of people, but at this point there is no way I can send an exact amount of coins to a certain address if I choose the option to have ChipMixer send various chip values to whatever address. The fees that ChipMixer deducts for the transaction will always result in an odd amount to be sent to the provided address.

I was thinking about something like this;

Chip 0.015BTC -> withdraw exactly 0.0125BTC (where the rest of the chip value serves as fee and donation).
Chip 0.02BTC -> withdraw exactly 0.018BTC (where the rest of the chip value serves as fee and donation).

In other words, I would like to manually input a value to be withdrawn (obviously always lower than the main chip value due to fees and such). See it as extra convenience for the end user.

Wouldn't that be something completely different than the current way chipmixer works? In my opinion, the power of chipmixer lays in the fact that the chips are pre-generated before you even deposit any funds into your chipmixer session.
If you were requesting different chipsizes, chipmixer would either have to generate these chipsizes on request before any deposit happened, or they would have to generate them afterwards (which would not seem like a good idear to me, bitmixer would lose some of its appeal to me)

EDIT: replaced 3 typo's... I meanth to say chipmixer, but wrote bitmixer (old habits die slow)

Topic: [ANN] ChipMixer.com - Bitcoin mixer / Bitcoin tumbler - mixing reinvented - page 125. (Read 92462 times)