Topic: [ANN] ChipMixer.com - Bitcoin mixer / Bitcoin tumbler - mixing reinvented - page 24. (Read 92822 times)

I see, I didn't get that comment. Thanks.

But is there no intention for the .com version to return to active?

It's working just fine, to inform you to use Tor browser:
Using the .onion site is better for privacy, and it's safer.

But today when trying to enter the .com site, the message continues to appear:


In other words, the site is not yet working in the .com version. At least for me.

Yes. Bob can also open a channel with ChipMixer, if he mixes regularly, to avoid routing failures. The only disadvantage, that way, is that someone who analyzes the chain might realize he's using the channel solely for mixing.

Example #3

• Bob opens a channel with ChipMixer, worth of 0.16 BTC.
• Bob sends 0.08 LN-BTC, equilibrating sending & receiving capacity (0.08 BTC sending capacity for both).
• ChipMixer sends him 0.08 BTC on-chain.
• Bob wants to mix 0.01 BTC, so he sends it to ChipMixer.
• ChipMixer sends him 0.01 LN-BTC.
• Now, Bob's sending capacity is 0.09 BTC and ChipMixer's 0.07 BTC.
• Few days later, Bob wants to mix 0.04 BTC on-chain, so he sends it to ChipMixer.
• ChipMixer sends him 0.04 LN-BTC.
• Now, Bob's sending capacity is 0.05 BTC and ChipMixer's 0.11 BTC.
• Bob can close the channel and earn 0.05 BTC on-chain. The chain analyzer can't know which outputs belong to Bob; at most, they can know that he mixed 0.05 BTC.

Money can be sent back and forth, with the outsiders being unaware of what's happening between him and ChipMixer.

It might be more reasonable for higher amounts, but it works great with micro-amounts if you mix regularly like I do, too. To avoid routing failures, better open a channel directly with ChipMixer's node.

Sounds like a great idea to me! So basically, instead of handing custody to ChipMixer for a few weeks, Bob can hold the LN balance (non-custodial) for that time period, then push it back to CM and get & redeem his chip immediately.

The fact that his LN funds are non-custodial, means he could at any time spend those on LN, or even use any service to swap it to on-chain balance. But it would also give him the option to get a CM chip at any time, too.
It might even be possible to achieve higher anonymity by spending part of the Lightning balance, thus only getting a smaller chip from CM for the rest of the balance.

Lightning withdrawals, even without sending them back to CM and getting chips would be pretty cool anyway.
The only issue I see is that having self-custody is more interesting / important the higher the amounts are. And large amounts aren't always routeable through Lightning. Besides that, I do like the proposal and the name is amazing, too..

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ChipMixer is an easy mixer to use, which gives the users a privilege; time traveling. It hands them over the Unspent Transaction Outputs' private keys, which were funded prior their deposit and can be, therefore, withdrawn whenever they want, in the future. A smart privacy technique is to not withdraw at the same time they deposit, because it makes their tracking easier to be achieved.

For example,

• Bob sends 1 mBTC to ChipMixer in 2021-09-11 07:14 (block 700,000).
• Bob waits for 1 confirmation.
• Transaction is confirmed in 2021-09-11 07:15 (block 700,001).
• Bob receives a 1 mBTC worth of chip that was funded a month ago, in 2021-08-09 22:13 (block 695,000).
• Bob withdraws his 1 mBTC to his wallet, and the transaction gets confirmed, right after, in block 700,002.

Bob's past-money have no connection with ChipMixer's 1 mBTC chip, but he's made it a lot easier to become traced. Someone who's analyzing the chain can see that at around the same time our friend Bob sent 1 mBTC to an unknown address, one of the ChipMixer's outputs of the same value, which were funded long before Bob deposited, was spent. So, it's rational to assume that Bob is likely to own this new output. And that's before ChipMixer uses Bob's past-money to create new chips and make it even more obvious.

A solution to the above problem is to just not spend at the same time you deposit. For instance, if Bob spent the chip about 2 weeks later, he'd have enhanced his privacy by a lot. However, this solution is pruned to losing self-custody. Bob is, essentially, forfeiting his ownership for 2 weeks, something that might discourage him do so.

ChipMixer has gained everyone's trust, and I've left money there for weeks to accomplish privacy strength, but trust is just contradictory with the protocol. The more time you leave money to a third-party, the greater are the risks. Therefore, we have a problem in the way we will gain the benefits of time traveling without the risks. Here it comes, ChipThunder.

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How does it work

If Bob has a properly running Lightning node, with > 1 mBTC receiving capacity, he can choose to receive the money via Lightning, making his 1 mBTC record obscured. What's, contemporaneously, positive is that ChipMixer has a lot of chips leftover for future mixing, that can be used, until then, as sending capacity of their private Lightning node. If Bob prefers having BTC instead of LN-BTC, he can send it back once he feels ready for on-chain chip withdrawal.

Mixing example #1

• Bob deposits 1 mBTC on-chain.
• Once the transaction is confirmed, Bob chooses to withdraw the chip via Lightning.
• Bob receives 1 LN-mBTC instantly.
• Bob can now spend the bitcoin freely, knowing he's respected both the principles of self-custody and privacy.

Mixing example #2

• Bob deposits 1 mBTC on-chain.
• Once the transaction is confirmed, Bob chooses to withdraw the chip via Lightning.
• Bob receives 1 LN-mBTC instantly.
• Bob prefers to have the bitcoin on-chain, so he sends it back to ChipMixer after a few days.
• Bob can now spend his 1 mBTC chip freely, again, knowing he's enhanced his privacy without infringing self-custody.

What do you think?

My guess is that it's got something to do with the recent DDoS attacks on Tor itself.


Everyone needs to update to version 0.4.7.8:

Any chance you want to share what the problem was that has now been resolved?  Was it the result of an outside attacker, an in-house mistake, or the result of regulatory action?  I think given the nature of the business and the crackdowns in the crypto industry, it could be helpful to share details with your users and for others in the field to be aware of to help them avoid similar circumstances in the future for their own services.

I am not a big user of dark web sites. But at least using ChipMixer is as simple as using a clearnet web page.
Start Tor browser (just a different looking Firefox), click to connect to Tor. Then you have the correct link from this announcement (I find it the safest option), you paste it into the Tor browser and that's all. The rest is normal browsing. So let's not really call it complicated 

A few weeks ago, there were DNS issues that led to a temporary compromise of the clearnet site, if I recall correctly. In any case, using a mixer through a clearnet connection is a bad idea anyway; since you're trying to gain privacy, but access the service through your (traceable) local IP.

It's not really more complicated; if anything, lots of things are simpler and just more secure overall.

Problem is now resolved. If anyone have problem with session please contact us by email.

We make refund if user couldn't use the service due to the downtime. In cases of longer DDoS attacks we extended sessions time.

They're back and everything is working fine again

This site has a good reputation and would never just confiscate money from a deposit without a refund. Even if it would take 7 days for the site to be online, you certainly don't have to worry about this amount. What I do wonder is how it is that they can only be found on the Dark Web, and that the site is offline there so quickly, which does not promise much good. I think there is a professional team behind it, so I think it will be solved in a few days. The dark web is also more complicated than the normal internet of course.

I'm assuming it'll come back within the 7 days or the server might know it's offline.

Realistically, since transactions were done over the blockchain the deposit address used should be enough to link the funds back to you and I seem to remember it being used in the past if people have lost their session tokens.

Yeah, that's my biggest concern, I sent them an email yesterday and no answer yet. I saved the session token, of course.

Don't worry about your deposit. Before you started the mixing process, ChipMixer gave you a session token. You can restore your session with this token. I hope you saved it. But the thing is, those session tokens are only valid for 7 days, and after that they expire. They can be extended, but you need access to the site to do that. Since these are extraordinary circumstances (the site being down), I am sure the support can help you here.

@ChipMixer
What happens with a user's deposit if the site doesn't come back online 7 days after the session expires, but he couldn't use the service or extend the session due to the downtime?   

Dang, I made a deposit like 2 minutes before it went down, gotta wait now...

It's down for me as well, but I think they are updating something, if you didn't know it looked like Tor has been under heavy attacks in last few days, so I think this might be the reason for Chipmixer downtime.
Anything related with Tor was loading slow for me in this time, and this was probably a Tor security issue bug that was fixed in latest version 0.4.7.8:
https://gitweb.torproject.org/tor.git/plain/ChangeLog

However, I would like to hear official Chipmixer statement about this.

I confirm that the onion site is down.

It seems the onion site is down, I'm using this for a long time and have never seen this happen, is there any way to know their news or updates like on twitter or something?