[ANN] ChipMixer.com - Bitcoin mixer / Bitcoin tumbler - mixing reinvented - page 68.

TryNinja

legendary

Activity: 2758

Merit: 6830

Quote from: CloudflareBot on September 08, 2019, 12:46:13 AM

So we returned to my first question: how should i prove that i deposit to you if you'll silently change deposit address? Who will be more believed on this forum: newbie lost money or mixer running signature campaign for 2 years? Answer is pretty simple, that's is why i'll never use that, nobody knows what is your cap of money for exit-scam.

They mixed at least 4,836 BTC from Binance's hacker and you are worried with their "scam cap"?

Quote from: CloudflareBot on September 08, 2019, 12:46:13 AM

Every mixer has it, you can talk everything you want about it, but if someone deposit enough coins for your life you'll close doors or just scam deposit and keep working, because it's not possible to prove that deposit address is yours.
If you're really respectable service your must solve it and it'll attract more customers. But for now is just based on fake trust that you're will not change deposit address - not enough.

I can't prove to you but I also don't need it (and wouldn't even care enough for that). But I don't have a "scam cap". And others also don't. There are people near incorruptible in this world (and not everyone has a price).

What is your magical suggestion to help them solve this issue?

CloudflareBot

newbie

Activity: 17

Merit: 1

Quote from: ChipMixer on September 07, 2019, 07:56:26 PM

Quote from: CloudflareBot on September 07, 2019, 03:23:22 PM

It's not fake security, it's just a protection from multiscam, in case i'll get scammed by chipmixer i can prove it to protect other ppl form using scam service, but current chipmixer site doesn't allow me to do that, they can scam money easy and just say that i deposit to wrong address covering it by "reputation" in this forum.

Quote from: ChipMixer on July 08, 2018, 03:42:16 PM

Being different than other mixers is valid excuse not to offer Letter of Guarantee. For example ChipMixer does not offer LoG because it is incompatible with chip withdrawal idea. It would be nice to have an additional security measure but sometimes you just cannot do that.

Letter of Guarantee works because:
- deposit address is public
- withdrawal address(es) is public
- transactions (deposit, withdrawal) are public
- all data is known beforehand and can be signed

If mixer does not send withdrawal transaction - user publishes LoG and everybody can verify:
- signature is correct
- deposit was made
- withdrawal was incorrect

Quote from: CloudflareBot on September 07, 2019, 03:23:22 PM

You didn't understand my proposal, there should be 2 letters for this type of mixer (private keys based), one before deposit - one after. First letter prove that address generated by chipmixer, second one - private keys.
You still didn't answer: how should i prove that address generated by chipmixer in case they'll silently change it after large deposit?

With your proposal ChipMixer signs letter that contains address. User say they did not receive chips. They publish signed letter that address is ChipMixer address. ChipMixer says they released chips. Who is lying? Nobody knows - only known thing is that it was ChipMixer address and funds were deposited. User cannot prove they did not receive chips. ChipMixer cannot prove they released chips. What kind of guarantee is that?

Second letter - signed private keys - does not do anything for guarantee. If user received chips - they would not show second letter. If they did and ChipMixer show second letter - ChipMixer can sign anything they want - it does not prove anything.

So we returned to my first question: how should i prove that i deposit to you if you'll silently change deposit address? Who will be more believed on this forum: newbie lost money or mixer running signature campaign for 2 years? Answer is pretty simple, that's is why i'll never use that, nobody knows what is your cap of money for exit-scam. Every mixer has it, you can talk everything you want about it, but if someone deposit enough coins for your life you'll close doors or just scam deposit and keep working, because it's not possible to prove that deposit address is yours.
If you're really respectable service your must solve it and it'll attract more customers. But for now is just based on fake trust that you're will not change deposit address - not enough.

ChipMixer

sr. member

Activity: 456

Merit: 956

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1935098

Quote from: CloudflareBot on September 07, 2019, 03:23:22 PM

It's not fake security, it's just a protection from multiscam, in case i'll get scammed by chipmixer i can prove it to protect other ppl form using scam service, but current chipmixer site doesn't allow me to do that, they can scam money easy and just say that i deposit to wrong address covering it by "reputation" in this forum.

Quote from: ChipMixer on July 08, 2018, 03:42:16 PM

Being different than other mixers is valid excuse not to offer Letter of Guarantee. For example ChipMixer does not offer LoG because it is incompatible with chip withdrawal idea. It would be nice to have an additional security measure but sometimes you just cannot do that.

Letter of Guarantee works because:
- deposit address is public
- withdrawal address(es) is public
- transactions (deposit, withdrawal) are public
- all data is known beforehand and can be signed

If mixer does not send withdrawal transaction - user publishes LoG and everybody can verify:
- signature is correct
- deposit was made
- withdrawal was incorrect

Quote from: CloudflareBot on September 07, 2019, 03:23:22 PM

You didn't understand my proposal, there should be 2 letters for this type of mixer (private keys based), one before deposit - one after. First letter prove that address generated by chipmixer, second one - private keys.
You still didn't answer: how should i prove that address generated by chipmixer in case they'll silently change it after large deposit?

With your proposal ChipMixer signs letter that contains address. User say they did not receive chips. They publish signed letter that address is ChipMixer address. ChipMixer says they released chips. Who is lying? Nobody knows - only known thing is that it was ChipMixer address and funds were deposited. User cannot prove they did not receive chips. ChipMixer cannot prove they released chips. What kind of guarantee is that?

Second letter - signed private keys - does not do anything for guarantee. If user received chips - they would not show second letter. If they did and ChipMixer show second letter - ChipMixer can sign anything they want - it does not prove anything.

CloudflareBot

newbie

Activity: 17

Merit: 1

Quote from: LoyceV on September 07, 2019, 02:13:46 PM

Quote from: CloudflareBot on September 07, 2019, 01:11:17 PM

In this case Letter of Guarantee should be a proof, that generated address regarded to chipmixer, nothing more needed (i'm talking about before deposit step).

That's fake security. You'll still need the same level of trust, and if you'd claim you received empty private keys, you still couldn't prove anything.

It's not fake security, it's just a protection from multiscam, in case i'll get scammed by chipmixer i can prove it to protect other ppl form using scam service, but current chipmixer site doesn't allow me to do that, they can scam money easy and just say that i deposit to wrong address covering it by "reputation" in this forum.
You didn't understand my proposal, there should be 2 letters for this type of mixer (private keys based), one before deposit - one after. First letter prove that address generated by chipmixer, second one - private keys.
You still didn't answer: how should i prove that address generated by chipmixer in case they'll silently change it after large deposit?
Let's imagine someone lost 10 BTC. This guy register on forum and asking chipmixer about it. Chipmixer answer some bullshit about phishing or wrong deposit address, doesn't matter really. Of course on this forum nobody will trust a some guy who lost some money and even can't prove it except some unknown transaction to some unknown wallet, but will trust chipmixer because of their signature campaign and tons of ppl trying to protect service and money they getting from campaign.
So, as i said, chipmixer can scam anybody anytime and you'll not able to prove it, because you have nothing to prove except transaction hash. Enjoy 'trusted' service, lol.

LoyceV

legendary

Activity: 3290

Merit: 16489

Thick-Skinned Gang Leader and Golden Feather 2021

Quote from: CloudflareBot on September 07, 2019, 01:11:17 PM

In this case Letter of Guarantee should be a proof, that generated address regarded to chipmixer, nothing more needed (i'm talking about before deposit step).

That's fake security. You'll still need the same level of trust, and if you'd claim you received empty private keys, you still couldn't prove anything.

CloudflareBot

newbie

Activity: 17

Merit: 1

Quote from: LoyceV on September 07, 2019, 12:06:13 PM

Quote from: CloudflareBot on September 07, 2019, 12:00:34 PM

Strange that this mixer doesn't provide letter of guarantee BEFORE i'll send coins.

A Letter of Guarantee can only be used if the mixer transfers mixed funds to a certain address. ChipMixer gives you private keys, and it's not possible to announce them before you deposit your funds.

Quote

If means in case of selective-scam (large deposits) nobody will able to prove that address really regarded to chipmixer.

Correct. That's why they're highly trusted here.
PS
Exchanges or casinos don't provide you with a signed message before depositing either.

In this case Letter of Guarantee should be a proof, that generated address regarded to chipmixer, nothing more needed (i'm talking about before deposit step). What will you do if chipmixer will change deposit address silently after you make a large deposit? How will you prove that address you saw on page was generated by chipmixer? Post a screenshot? Lol.
PS
i trust exchanges much more than anonymous lagging service which even can't answer customers for few days, obviously. Strange that you comparing coin-laundering service with legal stuff, lol.

LoyceV

legendary

Activity: 3290

Merit: 16489

Thick-Skinned Gang Leader and Golden Feather 2021

Quote from: CloudflareBot on September 07, 2019, 12:00:34 PM

Strange that this mixer doesn't provide letter of guarantee BEFORE i'll send coins.

A Letter of Guarantee can only be used if the mixer transfers mixed funds to a certain address. ChipMixer gives you private keys, and it's not possible to announce them before you deposit your funds.

Quote

If means in case of selective-scam (large deposits) nobody will able to prove that address really regarded to chipmixer.

Correct. That's why they're highly trusted here.
PS
Exchanges or casinos don't provide you with a signed message before depositing either.

CloudflareBot

newbie

Activity: 17

Merit: 1

Strange that this mixer doesn't provide letter of guarantee BEFORE i'll send coins. If means in case of selective-scam (large deposits) nobody will able to prove that address really regarded to chipmixer. Very very strange for "trusted" mixer.

btw: tor not working, site time-to-time down.

bitebitebite

member

Activity: 95

Merit: 10

Used this yesterday and it worked fine, despite some 404's in the middle

james3441

newbie

Activity: 29

Merit: 16

I have received an answer and my funds has been credited. Edited previous posts

malevolent

legendary

Activity: 3472

Merit: 1722

I wouldn't worry about them scamming, just make sure your sessions don't expire.

This isn't the first time they take their time to respond, I think they're simply undermanned, and given the nature of their service, hiring new, reliable customer service staff probably isn't easy.

james3441

newbie

Activity: 29

Merit: 16

Quote from: TryNinja on September 05, 2019, 02:37:07 PM

Quote from: gasNet on September 05, 2019, 02:26:34 PM

I haven't received anything yet... no mail and no money.

Weird. I would like to see an answer from ChipMixer as well. I still don't think they are prone to scamming you all, but this surely doesn't give any confidence.

I dont think as well... because that would be exit scam. 3 people reported this, so it's not a single case.

@ChipMixer
I dont understand how you can own mixing service which is based on trust and dont have any kind of monitoring system to notify you when something is broken. At least shut down system automatically and stop accepting people's money. The issue is present for like 5 days now? People have no money and no information what is going on.

//Edit: I have received an answer and my funds has been credited as of 06.09.2019.

TryNinja

legendary

Activity: 2758

Merit: 6830

Quote from: gasNet on September 05, 2019, 02:26:34 PM

I haven't received anything yet... no mail and no money.

Weird. I would like to see an answer from ChipMixer as well. I still don't think they are prone to scamming you all, but this surely doesn't give any confidence.

gasNet

newbie

Activity: 7

Merit: 0

Quote from: james3441 on September 04, 2019, 01:09:31 PM

I have the same problem.. just deposited, 11 confirmations and system does not detect it. So my funds are stuck.

Be careful and DO NOT send funds until this is explained. The issue is not fixed for at least past few days. The mixer is not operative as of 04.09.2019
3 people already reported same problem, and noone confirmed that they received any help/answer from support.

Quote from: petrenko.t on September 01, 2019, 05:56:27 PM

Well, actually 3 days have already passed

Have you received your coins? I see that ChipMixer logged in 02.09.2019 on the forum

I haven't received anything yet... no mail and no money. (I will update this post if i have received any money or mail)

james3441

newbie

Activity: 29

Merit: 16

I have the same problem.. just deposited, 11 confirmations and system does not detect it. So my funds are stuck.

Be careful and DO NOT send funds until this is explained. The issue is not fixed for at least past few days. The mixer is not operative as of 04.09.2019
3 people already reported same problem, and noone confirmed that they received any help/answer from support.

//Update: I have received an answer and my funds has been credited as of 06.09.2019.

Quote from: petrenko.t on September 01, 2019, 05:56:27 PM

Well, actually 3 days have already passed

Have you received your coins? I see that ChipMixer logged in 02.09.2019 on the forum

gasNet

newbie

Activity: 7

Merit: 0

Quote from: jackg on September 03, 2019, 11:00:20 AM

If you have more than 7 confirmations I'd suggest contacting chipmixer's email address (which can be located on the bottom of their page or on the contact page) with the address you deposited to.

I wrote him the email a few hours ago with the Restore ID.
I just wanted to mention that because I'm apparently not the only one with this "problem".

jackg

copper member

Activity: 2856

Merit: 3071

https://bit.ly/387FXHi lightning theory

If you have more than 7 confirmations I'd suggest contacting chipmixer's email address (which can be located on the bottom of their page or on the contact page) with the address you deposited to.

gasNet

newbie

Activity: 7

Merit: 0

Quote from: jackg on September 03, 2019, 09:20:21 AM

Quote from: gasNet on September 03, 2019, 08:12:34 AM

I'm waiting for my coins too. My transaction has several confirmations, but no Chips yet.

Have you tried skipping to step 2 in case it's a java script issue (does the page keep refreshing anyway, you'll see the refresh button in the top left turn to an X) ?

yes, nothing.

jackg

copper member

Activity: 2856

Merit: 3071

https://bit.ly/387FXHi lightning theory

Quote from: gasNet on September 03, 2019, 08:12:34 AM

I'm waiting for my coins too. My transaction has several confirmations, but no Chips yet.

Have you tried skipping to step 2 in case it's a java script issue (does the page keep refreshing anyway, you'll see the refresh button in the top left turn to an X) ?

gasNet

newbie

Activity: 7

Merit: 0

I'm waiting for my coins too. My transaction has several confirmations, but no Chips yet.

When I restore the session, it still says:
Waiting for confirmed transaction. Please refresh page.
If you have javascript enabled, page will autorefresh every 30 seconds.

Topic: [ANN] ChipMixer.com - Bitcoin mixer / Bitcoin tumbler - mixing reinvented - page 68. (Read 92822 times)