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Topic: [ANN] CureCoin 2.0 is live - Mandatory Update is available now - DEC 2018 - page 100. (Read 696254 times)

hero member
Activity: 854
Merit: 501

I'm a believer in research based crypto.  I have no idea what that will ultimately look like in a few years with the various progressions but I do believe the two concepts are perfect for each other.

Me too.
Help promoting RSC and GridCoin, too Smiley

BTW Foldingcoin is getting more and more power online and we are slowly declining...

Looks nice, I must try it.
The only disadvantage is that I can't find it on any exchange...
search on Counterparty and you can find FLD
hero member
Activity: 1050
Merit: 501

I'm a believer in research based crypto.  I have no idea what that will ultimately look like in a few years with the various progressions but I do believe the two concepts are perfect for each other.

Me too.
Help promoting RSC and GridCoin, too Smiley

BTW Foldingcoin is getting more and more power online and we are slowly declining...

Looks nice, I must try it.
The only disadvantage is that I can't find it on any exchange...
full member
Activity: 226
Merit: 100
An example on what the dev could do to make this coin more interesting/valuable....

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/ann-bittrex-poloniex-cryptsy-all-coin-trading-software-quatloo-trader-711966

Very interesting idea by the developer!  Looks like he found a use for his coin for the traders of the world of which there are many.  The guy appears to be getting overwhelmed on his trading software thread though.  He probably doesn't have much time to put into new versions of his coin.  I can't say I've ever heard of his coin though so I'm not sure what its purpose was in the first place.

Although I have to say the 2,500% (mentioned in the linked thread, I didn't verify) increase in the value of his coin value when he announced his trading software appears to have brought in a lot of people!   Grin  Quite nice volume now and still highly volatile.

Edit:  I've read a good portion of the above linked thread and I have to say I think the developer really has a brilliant idea in that he is using a holding amount of his coin as a requirement to use the features of his software.  Instant demand from all speculators.  A very creative idea indeed!  As new features gets added he increases the holding amount.  When it was first released he was only asking for a holding amount of 100 of his coins.  Now it is 10,000 and he is moving toward 20,000 soon (for advanced features).  Amazing people are willing to do it but they appear to be.

I don't know if cloning his idea would be nearly as effective now.  I wonder how many coin developers have approached him to see if he would work with them on requiring their coins as well.

I don't think curecoin dev should clone the idea just use the "using a holding amount of his coin as a requirement to use the features of his software" that I think should be clone... How? I have no idea but we need innovation if we want mass adoption and so far apart from Folding@home I see no innovation, slow development and this is not good enough for people to join the project or buy the coin...

I really like Curecoin Idea and I wish we could bring 10% of litecoin and doge to curecoin that would make a huge difference to folding@home... I hate to see crazy amount of power used almost only to confirm transactions!

But the dev team of Curecoin need to step it up... Otherwise this coin will fail and I would hate to see that!

BTW Foldingcoin is getting more and more power online and we are slowly declining...

Edit: you could for eg. add a poker/casino room in the curecoin wallet with free roll games and a system of points/rewards for curecoins holders. a faucet, a trading platform/bot, an "ebay" shop etc. (i'm not a programmer so I have no idea what is possible) brain storm ideas with curecoin holder surely someone will come up with a great idea
hero member
Activity: 1008
Merit: 502
hello all, I need some help, trying to solomine this coin, I have some rockminers, some dragon miners and some zeus miners. None are working, the sha-256 equipment gives me a reading as if I am using the wrong equipment with this coin. It says everywhere even the pools this is a sha-256 coin but none of my sha equipment can mine it. So since the miner program gave me the errors as if i were using the wrong equipment with this algo i tried my zeus, becasue the difficulty in the wallet says 0.002 thus would mean its probably a scrypt coin with a difficulty that low, the zeus did connect yet mined nothing. It was hashing, however with a difficulty of 0.002 I would hope to get at least 1 block with my zeus blizzard 4 Mhash/s machine in an hour right?

SO what am I doing wrong here,

Added note the wallet about says its an X11 scrypt coin is this true? that would explain why the difficulty is rated in the wallet at 0.002 and why my shaminers cant connect or force the chainstate as well as why y zeus is not processing blocks.
hero member
Activity: 817
Merit: 1000
Truth is a consensus among neurons www.synereo.com
hero member
Activity: 1050
Merit: 501
I folded one work unit, took me 3 days. Maybe this is not for me haha.

Try folding with NaCL, a chrome app. The workunits are very small and take way less time.

Folding with this chrome app gives more points?? or just divides workunits and rewards?
sr. member
Activity: 292
Merit: 250
An example on what the dev could do to make this coin more interesting/valuable....

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/ann-bittrex-poloniex-cryptsy-all-coin-trading-software-quatloo-trader-711966

Very interesting idea by the developer!  Looks like he found a use for his coin for the traders of the world of which there are many.  The guy appears to be getting overwhelmed on his trading software thread though.  He probably doesn't have much time to put into new versions of his coin.  I can't say I've ever heard of his coin though so I'm not sure what its purpose was in the first place.

Although I have to say the 2,500% (mentioned in the linked thread, I didn't verify) increase in the value of his coin value when he announced his trading software appears to have brought in a lot of people!   Grin  Quite nice volume now and still highly volatile.

Edit:  I've read a good portion of the above linked thread and I have to say I think the developer really has a brilliant idea in that he is using a holding amount of his coin as a requirement to use the features of his software.  Instant demand from all speculators.  A very creative idea indeed!  As new features gets added he increases the holding amount.  When it was first released he was only asking for a holding amount of 100 of his coins.  Now it is 10,000 and he is moving toward 20,000 soon (for advanced features).  Amazing people are willing to do it but they appear to be.

I don't know if cloning his idea would be nearly as effective now.  I wonder how many coin developers have approached him to see if he would work with them on requiring their coins as well.
full member
Activity: 226
Merit: 100
sr. member
Activity: 292
Merit: 250
Just for the record I would like to recant my mention of Moolah from my message quoted by Indigoman.   Angry  Since they have taken over MintPal, let's just say that I won't be doing business with them unless there is a radical improvement in their customer service.  So please ignore that part of my message.  There are plenty of other payment processors.

Regarding the inflation rate, I've also seen 1-3% used quite a bit.  My feeling would be closer to 1% but it is just a guess.
newbie
Activity: 6
Merit: 0
Marketing and creating usability for the coin will become top prioirty AFTER the implementation of the system. I see GREAT potential! For example, curecoin would require/encourage universities that want to apply as a signing authority to accept curecoin on campus for tuition and other stuff. Why would they do that? Cause it'll encourage more people to do proof of certificate work which will the help the university's research further develop. Not to mention the amazing PR the university would get for accepting a humane crypto currency. I know it's frustrating now with the price guys but once the system is implemented, the uses would endless. Heck we could create a fork of some sort that "rents out" computational power to private companies by giving them signing authority for a fee or a donation that could require the fee to paid only in curecoin and for a limited period of time for example. You know how much potential income could be generated by renting computational power ?? Great potential .. See what's coming not what's under your feet guys Wink
newbie
Activity: 6
Merit: 0

4.) There will be a limited amount of coins that can be minted using certificate mining (however this will be stretched out over a very long period of time, and will be practical for encouraging computational research far into the future). If we implement a Proof-Of-Stake model, then we will see some form of interest, which will be rate-limited, but not limited to an actual final quantity. Hopefully that makes sense, let me know if you'd like me to clarify that one.


Thank you for your answers. I have some follow up questions regarding this point.

Why put a limit on the amount of coin to be minted using the certificate mining? I understand it will be stretch over a very long time but why have the limit in the first place? Why not  make it rate-limited somehow without a limited final quantity? Having it finite means that there will be a point in time in the future that would deem certificate mining unprofitable and people, being financially incentivized, will move from it to more profitable venues. Be it 10 days from now or 10 million years from now, that point in time will come and people will move away. Could you please elaborate more on the decisions to set a limit on coin mined with certificate mining and the thought process behind them ?

Thank you

Yeah, this part isn't actually set in stone, so if other people have input on this, don't be shy! Had a discussion with Cygnus and Cujo about this last night. Smiley

I'm thinking the best path might be a compromise between people wanting a set-limit system and an actual currency's behavior. Bitcoin and almost every other cryptocurrency has some finite limit to it's mintage, attractive to investors as it is scarce, similar to a commodity. On the other side, fiat currencies are designed in such a way that their mintage is based on a lot of factors including population, and tend to become less valuable over time, per unit. As a result, a compromise would be a very long mintage schedule with an extremely gradual decline, so the coin is still generated at a predictable rate, but is still limited in supply in a given period of time.

Just my 2 cents...  I do think a coin that follows a very small inflationary model is a good idea but only to the extent that it is slightly higher than what is needed to offset coins that will get lost via people losing interest, losing their hard drive with no backups, or forgetting their pass phrase etc.  I have no idea how to estimate what the natural deflation rate is but I wouldn't want to see growth being much higher than the best guess.  

My biggest concern as I've mentioned before is coin utilization.  If we don't find ways to actually use CureCoin, the coin is going to die no matter what its features.  People need to be able to use it and right now there is nothing to use it for.  That is the number one problem in my view.  Of course we can use it for speculation but that can be done with a thousand other coins as well.  We need real uses for CureCoin.

Maybe when CC 2.0 is released the devs can approach Moolah and others to see if they have an interest in working with the coin.  It would seem to fit in well with their mindset and could possibly bring in the Dogecoin community, but I don't think they would be interested under the current structure.  CC 2.0 should alleviate many concerns that would come up.  I would love to find a way to introduce CureCoin to the Dogecoin crowd.  Most members of the Dogecoin community can't mine anymore since the implementation of AuxPoW due to the soaring difficultly.  It would be nice to get a few over here and create a cross community if possible.  If we could find a way to tap into the DOGE community I think CureCoin's demand would skyrocket.

It appears I have veered off topic a bit from the original quote so I guess I put in 4 cents instead of my 2 cents.   Grin

I've been away for a while so this is a little late lol but here goes.

I completely agree that a well established currency that's used for daily transactions should NOT be deflationary. It should have an inflation that is organic and healthy for the growth of developing economies. I did some random readings on the topic and it  appears that an inflation rate between %1 and %3 correlates with healthy growing economies in developing countries ( curecoin is an economic ecosystem that will represent a digital form of a growing developing country) .. Therefore I highly highly HIGHLY discourage setting a hard limit on the supply. Give it an inflationary nature that reaches that optimum inflation rate between 1-3% that takes into account transaction fees are destroyed to balance the inflation. Economically speaking, this is the way to go. The Bitcoin simulation of precious metals and deflationary nature of it while exciting at first, it fails to be a medium of exchange for daily transactions due to the hoarding nature it has by the idea that the Bitcoin I hold today will be worth more tomorrow since there will be less to mine. It discourages economical growth on the long run by promoting hoarding and discouraging transacting in it.

Speaking of transacting and encouraging it, I've read that a healthy economy grows healthier with increased amount of transactions that occur in it. Therefore a model that encourages spending and discourages hoarding would be optimal. The REDDCOIN team have attempted to tackle that aspect and came in with Proof Of Stak Velocity ( POSV) . I invite the debs to read the REDDCOIN white paper and explore the possible use of a POSV model rather than POS or proof of capacity along side the proof of certificate Smiley

On another random note , I had lost the link to http://curecoinfolding.com/progress-updates-p2p-networking/ then I realized it's not on the curecoin.net website. I really think a link to the curecoinfolding.com website should be on the curecoin.net as I never really knew about that site until and accidently came by it.

newbie
Activity: 17
Merit: 0
is the block explorer down? it says "coucou".

bump...

yes it's gone, been gone for a while.
member
Activity: 71
Merit: 10
Hopefully that all made sense, I didn't expect to write a novella >.> Let me know if you have any other questions!

Dear Vorksholk,

It starts to makes sense in my brain ... Thank you very much for your time and "executive summary", much appreciated.

sr. member
Activity: 292
Merit: 250
I believe that the coin aim is to replace the useless mining of the other coins with useful computation.
In this regard, the dogecoin effort doesn't deliver, nor does the current curecoin implementation.
But version 2 will, so I am really looking forward to it!
Let's hope people will understand the importance of this aspect of cryptocurrencies.

Yep, I completely agree.  The wasted energy and the actual release of Curecoin is why I stopped mining Dogecoin myself.  Without usage of the coin though Curecoin is in a tough spot.

I'm a believer in research based crypto.  I have no idea what that will ultimately look like in a few years with the various progressions but I do believe the two concepts are perfect for each other.

Of course there would be other difficult problems with "attaching" to another coin as well such as what would be done with the existing coins that we already have.  So I suspect any possibility of doing that is already too late.
legendary
Activity: 2716
Merit: 1094
Black Belt Developer
I believe that the coin aim is to replace the useless mining of the other coins with useful computation.
In this regard, the dogecoin effort doesn't deliver, nor does the current curecoin implementation.
But version 2 will, so I am really looking forward to it!
Let's hope people will understand the importance of this aspect of cryptocurrencies.
sr. member
Activity: 292
Merit: 250
@Vorksholk

Thanks for the detailed information on quantum computer resistance!  My concern is that you guys could be so far ahead of the actual threat that nobody is going to care.  I also don't know how much additional work you are looking at for this specific implementation.  Maybe it isn't much more work than you was going to have to do anyway for the certificate signing so it makes sense to do it now.  I just hope it isn't adding months to the project at this point.

So the market cap is currently at $16,000, granted that is somewhat due to the recent decline in bitcoin value, but at some point it has got to be worth investing in. Currently $160 gets you a 1% stake in the project. I've been dribbling in orders as the price declined, but it's getting to the point where this project is undervalued. How much lower can the price get?

Well price is the equilibrium point between supply and demand right?  So we know the supply, but what about demand?  My concern all along has been what do we do with Curecoins?  If the main use of Curecoin is to sell them on exchanges for other coins that we can actually use then Curecoins price is going to remain under pressure.

Building usage around a crypto coin is a lot of work and it obviously takes a lot of people.  It needs a large community.  I think we've got 15-20 active posters in the forum, who knows how many readers.  There appear to be even less on the main http://www.curecoin.us/ forum and our reddit (http://www.reddit.com/r/curecoin/).  We obviously have a lot more folders than that but they don't appear to be active in the community.  So where is the ability to use the coin going to come from?  Who is going to build it?

We could push to get accepted by payment processors but from what I've seen so far only the highest volume coins have made it.  Bitcoin, Litecoin, and Dogecoin.

So even after CC2.0 comes out we still have quite a challenge ahead of us.

Additionally, it appears that at least one of the more well establish coins have figured out that some of us like to fold and mining isn't viable for many people.  For instance, the Dogecoin community is gathering donations to reward folders in Dogecoin.  I can't help but wonder if we would be better off trying to embrace an existing established coin rather than trying to build a new coin from scratch and the Dogecoin community would seem to be a good candidate to at least have the discussion IMO.

I know trying to get involved with an existing coin is a whole other can of worms but it may be easier to get involved with a coin that has an existing economy than trying to build one from scratch for a new coin.

Just my thoughts.
legendary
Activity: 868
Merit: 1000
twitter.com/natmcmolecule
So the market cap is currently at $16,000, granted that is somewhat due to the recent decline in bitcoin value, but at some point it has got to be worth investing in. Currently $160 gets you a 1% stake in the project. I've been dribbling in orders as the price declined, but it's getting to the point where this project is undervalued. How much lower can the price get?

legendary
Activity: 1713
Merit: 1029
...a signing algorithm which is resistant to Quantum Computers ...

I keep reading it, but also keep not understanding it. Is this relevant for today's implementations ? Google seems to have something like an QC in the corner, NSA maybe too.

Having it conceptual in mind is good, but need to spend efforts on it ? Can it be tested/validated ? Does it scares people off as techie-talk ?

But again, I keep not understanding it. Can you explain it in simple terms to me ?

Basically, modern signature schemes are based off of the multiplication of large prime numbers, and Shor's algorithm allows quantum computers to find the prime factorization of large numbers. Shor's algorithm requires a quantum computer to run, and thus factoring large numbers into their source prime numbers becomes practical.

I'll give an example of RSA because it's much more straight-forward, but keep in mind a similar issue exists in a more complex form inside of ECDSA. (The following steps are information-only, you can skip them if you wish. If you want an example of creating/breaking an RSA key, you're in the right place. Summary at the bottom!)
Code:
For public/private key cryptography, you need to generate a private key, and from this private key you can create or derive your public key. In the case of RSA, you generate a public key in the following manner:
1.) Choose two unique, large prime numbers. (p and q)
2.) Multiply these unique primes together (result = n)
3.) Compute: (p-1)*(q-1) (result = φ)
4.) Pick an integer between 1 and φ which doesn't share a prime factor with φ (result = e)
5.) Figure out what number (d) when multiplied by (e/φ) gives 1. In other words, the remainder of (d*e)/φ is 1.

So, let's do an example! :)
1.) My two primes (obviously waaaay to small to ever be practical for actual cryptography): p=7 and q=13
2.) Multiply them(n=91)
3.) Multiply (p-1) with (q-1): (6*12)φ=72
4.) Pick an integer sharing no prime factor with φ:e=11
5.) Number which when multiplied by (e/φ) gives us a remainder of one:d=51
-->Check: d*(e/φ)=649/72=9 + 1/72 or 9 remainder 1. YAY!

Now, your public key is the two numbers 'e' and 'n', so our public key is (11, 91).
Your private key is the two numbers 'd' and 'n', so our private key is (51, 91).

Now, of course these numbers are ridiculously small and not practical for encryption, but let's demonstrate breaking this simple RSA key given the availability of a 'function' B(x) which, when fed a number, would return the prime factorization. Example: B(391) returns two numbers: 17 and 23. THIS FUNCTION B(x) is what quantum computers would provide.

Given only the public key, we have two variables initially:
e = 11
n = 91
As you can see above, if we could calculate both p and q (the initial starting prime numbers), we could re-calculate the private key d. Given the starting primes, finding 'd' is deterministic. So, our only goal here is to calculate p and q. We already know pq, and we know p and q are both primes. To this effect, calling B(n) or B(91) yields {7, 13}. However, if we were unable to easily find the prime factorization of 91, we would be stuck brute-forcing:
2*x=91 (x not integer)
3*x=91 (x not integer)
5*x=91 (x not integer)
7*x=91 (x is an integer)
For very large values of  n, brute-forcing becomes computationally-infeasible. Another means of attacking RSA keys is the number field sieve, which is significantly more effective, and was used to crack a 768-bit RSA key. For a key of size 3072-bit, it would take all the computing power on Earth today longer (by orders of magnitude) than the age of the known universe to factor this number 'e' back into parts 'p' and 'q'.

Or, with a quantum computer of large enough (around 6144 'qubits' or quantum bits, a unit of quantum information which can exist in a superposition where it is both 1 AND 0), you'd just use Shor's algorithm (which has been demonstrated in factoring '15' into '3' and '5' (not impressive in itself of course, but the technology exists and Shor's algorithm is provably feasible) to call B(n).

Summary: RSA is vulnerable to quantum computers. A component of the public RSA key (n) is simply the product of two very large prime numbers. The infeasibility of factoring n into the two original primes p and q is an essential property of RSA's integrity. If a method were created which, when given a number, was able to efficiently calculate the prime factorization, it would break RSA. Shor's algorithm can factor extremely large numbers into a prime factorization in a practical timeframe. If quantum computers were stable and were scalable to a desired size, Shor's algorithm would be able to factor an RSA public key to an RSA private key.

Bitcoin doesn't use RSA, it uses ECDSA. However, Shor's 2nd algorithm from 1994 allows for solving discrete logarithms could attack ECDSA. Additionally, a smaller quantum computer would be required to attack a classically-similar security of ECDSA than for RSA (Breaking a 2048-bit RSA key needs around 4096 qubits, breaking a 224-bit ECDSA key would need somewhere between 1300 and 1600 qubits). If you're interested in reading a very dense document on quantum computers applied to Elliptical Curve Crypto, check out http://arxiv.org/pdf/quant-ph/0301141v2.pdf.

One of Shor's proposed algorithms from 1994 allows for quantum computers to "easily" solve discrete logarithms. So, what does this mean? (You can skip this section as well)

Code:
The discrete logarithm problem is another mathematical entity believed to be easy one way, hard the other. 
For example:
q^b mod n ≡ x
Where n is a primitive root of q (basically, for all possible values of r, the chances of getting any result (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6) from (q^b MOD n) is equal)
Solve for x.
Knowing n, q, and b, this can be calculated very easily. Let's say n = 13. 6 is a primitive root.
How we know 6 is a primitive root of 13:
6^1 MOD 13 = 6
6^2 MOD 13 = 10
6^3 MOD 13 = 8
6^4 MOD 13 = 9
6^5 MOD 13 = 2
6^6 MOD 13 = 12
6^7 MOD 13 = 7
6^8 MOD 13 = 3
6^9 MOD 13 = 5
6^10 MOD 13 = 4
6^11 MOD 13 = 11
6^12 MOD 13 = 1
6^13 MOD 13 = 6
6^14 MOD 13 = 10
6^15 MOD 13 = 8
etc... You can see a pattern. 6^1 MOD 13 is the same as 6^13 MOD 13 is the same as 6^25 MOD 13 is the same as 6^37 MOD 13. Using this looping pattern, we can predict 6^1994833 MOD 6 as being 6. Why? Because (1994833-1)/12 is an integer. We don't have to calculate 6^1994833, we just use a pattern. Cool, huh? 6^1994834 MOD 13 is 10. 6^1994835 MOD 13 is 8. Etc. Not really important to what we're doing right now, it's just awesome. :D

Aaaanyhow, back to what we were doing.
 q^b mod n ≡ x
Let's set q as 6, n as 13, and b as 119. We could either use our pattern above or resort to asking a calculator, but x is easy to calculate. x = 11.
That's easy. Now, try calculating:
6^b mod 13 = 119.
For such a small modulus 13, this problem is trivial trial-and error. However, this problem becomes far more difficult with extremely large moduli, similar to a prime factorization.

So, let's summarize what we know so far.
Bitcoin uses ECDSA
ECDSA relies on the hardness of Discrete Logarithms.
Discrete Logarithms can be easily solved by an algorithm by Peter Shor on quantum computational devices.

So, if quantum computers can break ECDSA, how vulnerable is Bitcoin?



The above image explains the basic process for generating a Bitcoin address. The address itself cannot be reversed to the public key of the ECDSA keypair, because it is protected by a hash. However, when you create and sign a transaction (spend Bitcoins, namely), your public key is revealed. Peers re-calculate your address based on the public key you revealed to the network, and if the produced address matches the source address, and the signature matches the public key, the transaction is accepted.

So, coins sent to a Bitcoin address that has never sent a transaction can not be spent by someone with a Quantum computer. However, any address on the Bitcoin network that has previously made a transaction can be reversed to its private key, and an attacker can then empty the address.

As such, Bitcoin addresses would have to be one-time-use, which isn't exactly practical.

No quantum computers are available today which can crack ECDSA. Nor will they be here next year.

Quantum-resistant signing algorithms are proven effective. They rely only on the existence of a hashing function that is one-way by design, which is fulfilled perfectly fine by SHA256, SHA3, RIPE160, Grostel, etc. etc. Quantum computers can't brute-force deterministic circuit-logic operations in a cost-effective manner.

Hopefully that all made sense, I didn't expect to write a novella >.> Let me know if you have any other questions!
member
Activity: 71
Merit: 10
...a signing algorithm which is resistant to Quantum Computers ...

I keep reading it, but also keep not understanding it. Is this relevant for today's implementations ? Google seems to have something like an QC in the corner, NSA maybe too.

Having it conceptual in mind is good, but need to spend efforts on it ? Can it be tested/validated ? Does it scares people off as techie-talk ?

But again, I keep not understanding it. Can you explain it in simple terms to me ?
legendary
Activity: 868
Merit: 1000
twitter.com/natmcmolecule
this coin is almost dead now   Sad

Did you not read the Dev's lengthy and encouraging response right above you? There is a lot of volume right now (sure, more selling than buying), Curecoin folders are contributing a large portion of the F@H work being done, and the dev is actively coding an upgraded and exciting new version of the coin. Besides, we are still at 4,000 satoshi. Your lazy, pessimistic comment contributes very little  Angry

Anyway, thanks for the great response Vorksholk.

& to ChasingTheDream, I agree what you have to say about utility, even if we just got a labcoat company or an online chemistry supply business to accept the coin it would be a start. If even one university accepted curecoin for tuition that would be huge!
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