Topic: [ANN] FACTOM - Introducing Honesty to Record-Keeping - page 444. (Read 2115931 times)

As a long-term follow of the Notary Chains project now known as Factom - and a crowdsale investor that was well-informed about the pre-sale of Factoids, I would appreciate if you did not speak for me and stop insinuating that Factom has ever been dishonest or lacking in transparency.

I have watched this thread since the launch of Factom project and I don't recall you being involved until you showed up to start spreading FUD.  I don't care about making money on Factom.  I purchased tokens to support this project and I am not worried about losing money because I have a job and make plenty of money.

Stop this "investor scam" bullshit.   Factom is about building applications on top of the Bitcoin blockchain.  It is one of many projects in the works that will strengthen the Bitcoin price because it utilizes Bitcoin spends in order to hash entries into the blockchain.  This means that Factom will increase transactions and thus has the potential to increase fees that can be rewarded to Bitcoin miners. 

A distributed peer-to-peer data layer on top of Bitcoin is f*cking awesome man.  What the hell is wrong with you?

Fartbags, wtf do you care if you aren't a holder? just state your case and move on, otherwise people may think you have no life.

The public has no proof of what early contributions or early investments were made.

Thus we have to act upon the assumption that nothing was done early and no funds were raise. This would indeed make 50% of all Factom free money with 100% of the free money owned by insiders and devs.

Of course there was some contributions made early so the 50% premine will indeed hold some value and not be free money.



@The Bitcoin Co-op, In this case you are part of the "Early Contributors". You are in possession of the free factoms. Of course this is not a scam against yourself! You now have the ability to sell the free factoids for "The Bubble Scam" crowd sale price at a marketcap of $2,200,000 USD.

The scam was perpetrated against the crowd sale buyers who are unable to sell at a profit and must hold the coin in hopes of a miracle. Even if a miracle does happen and Factom does rise in price, it will always remains that you scammed away a minimum of 50% of the crowd sale profits from investors.



If you would like to tell the public more information on "What BTC value you put into the Early contributions?" and "How many factoids you received in the genesis block?", then we could discuss some real numbers to see how big the bubble is right now.

Dear fartbags, we will rest our case as your points make no sense, the community can see that for themselves.
We have nothing to hide.

Why the Hell would they give me a bunch of Factoids for free? That's the stupidest scam in the world--the scam is to give me free money? That's the opposite of a scam. This is a retarded conspiracy theory.

Are you saying Early Investors invested exactly 911.48 BTC? That would make the risk/reward the same as the public. Without transaction IDs there is no way to confirm what scam is being done here. We will assume 0 funds were raised pre-sale and the 20% of all premined factoids are going to the Factom devs.

The same goes for early contributors. Was there 1367.22 BTC of early contributions done? These contributions should be detailed and given a BTC value. Until then, we will assume no work was done and all these premined factoids are going to Factoms devs, Koinify & The Bitcoin Co-op for free.





This is not the way it worked out. In the end this was a scam by the early investors and devs to create a bubble and fill it up with the crowd sale investors

The "devs" and "insiders" have turned their ballon into 911.48 BTC + 1367.22 BTC - (pre-sale = $0 proven) - (early contributions = $0 stated) = 2278.7 BTC in excess funds.





Factom is a good idea and and might work out. The scam was done by early investors and early contributors to ensure they win and win quickly. Whether or not Factom is a success doesn't matter, they will already win once Factom is on an exchange. These people can then further bag hold some of their free coins in case Factom is a success. The crowd sale participates require Factom to be a success to win.


The scam is that public investors were not allowed to participate at the same risk/reward level that the scammers were able to participate at. If the public was involved then this would be a good fair distributed coin which everyone could support.





Factom was one of the first to perform this scam so I will give them a break.


For the public, you need to learn more about what's going on with a crowd sale. Don't get tricked into buying from NEWS stories that are actually not NEWS but "magazine/blog articles". If there are private early investors or early contributions who then hold an "auction", the coin is a scam. It will be better to wait until it hits an exchange to invest.

Do not allow these same scammers to keep running this scam with other good quality projects.

Again, no Factoids were sold at a better price than the sale price, including the early investors sale.
Koinify had nothing to do with the pre-sale, nor the early contributors funds. Also Koinify have stopped doing crowdsales as they are working on a new product.
We believe there is a lack of information from the comments above. All the info on how the sale was going to happen and details about distribution of Factoids was ready available on the sale site.

All of the Factoids will be in the Genesis Block all at once including sale tokens, the pre-sale tokens and the early contributors tokens.

The total number of early Factoids that will be in circulation is also public and has been posted in previous discussion on this thread.
Also early investors as well as early contributors and token sale contributors will have the same opportunity to use their Factoids with the Beta Wallet once released. Nobody will receive Factoids before anybody else.
They will also be able to trade them once exchanges start supporting Factoids. Saying that early investors or contributors who were assigned a number of Factoids will have more incentive for
the price to go up is wrong because even token sale contributors will have the exact same incentive.

Last but not least Factom is not the first project to hold a pre-sale, do your research beforehand.

That's not what a scam is. You're abusing the definition of it. A scam is not any business model you disagree with.

It's getting really annoying how people just use the word on anything and anybody in the Bitcoin community, because it has lost all meaning. Now what the fuck do we call it when someone pulls an actual scam, like Butterfly Labs? A mega scam? An uber scam?

That's stupid. Scams are black and white things. You're either telling the truth or you're not. I can't kind of lie to you, because lying is an intended thing--an unintended lie is called a "mistake."

Factom Sale Purchasers
50%
Available for purchase by the public during the sale.

Early Purchasers
20%
Reserved for early purchasers prior to public sale.

Early Contributors
30%
Reserved for core team and key contributors.



To make this not a scam, all of these should be combined into 1 group.

I'm not sure what the early contributors did (this information is hidden) but lets just say one person did 100 BTC worth of work or marketing before the crowdsale. This would be considered 100 BTC added into the 2,278.7 BTC crowdsale. Crowdsale would now say they raised 2,278.7 + 100 BTC.

The early contributor who did 100 BTC of work will receive the exact same amount of factoids as a crowd sale investor who invested 100 BTC.



The private early purchases should have never happened. It should have been public the whole time. Then publicly raised funds could have been used to pay early contributors instead of giving them a percentage of factoids. Of course they could then buy into the crowdsale with those funds if they wanted to own some factoids.

Things get really confusing when you think early purchasers bought factoids but what happened to that money? Was it not enough to cover early contributor costs? This is alarming.




This whole thing is a big mess. If factoids drop below crowd sale price and remain there for months, I think it's over for Koinify. No one will trust them again. Did Koinify also do Augur? The pages look really similar.

People will start saying "Why buy a Koinify crowdsale when you can get it 50% off after it launches on an exchange".

I don't understand how assigning our earnings in BTC or USD instead of Factoids would make selling more costly for us. Seeing as how the price of Factoids was pegged (via the crowdsale) at the time of assignment, it seems equivalent, to me. Once their value becomes variable and determined by the free market, an Early Contributor's Factoids go up and down in value just the same as someone who bought them in the crowdsale.

As an Early Contributor, I don't think I have anything to feel bad about. For one, I'm telling you I'm an Early Contributor, which is pretty transparent. Secondly, the amount of Factoids given to us is actually not very comparable to the value of our time investment--our hope is that the value goes up. Lastly, I don't see the effective difference between paying us in Factoids and paying us in crowdsale funds--you're getting Factoids for money, and we're getting them for work. Why is that bad?

Also, even if your arguments are correct, "scam" is still an exaggeration to the point of untruth. "Bad deal" would be more accurate. "Scam" would only be accurate if there were never going to be any working Factoids, or if Koinify gave them all the crowdsale funds without achieving any milestones or working product.

This early contributor reward is pretty horrible at creating a bubble and might be even worse than early investors. Since none of this is public, I would have to call this a scam.

In the spirit of "Honesty to Record-Keeping", records should be kept public on all early contributions and any raised funds. The early contributors should feel bad. Crowd sale buyers work hard for their money that they invest into Factom. Their money takes time to earn just like the early contributors contributions take time. Crowd sale funds, if done properly, could have been used to accomplish early contributor tasks.

The distinction between "early contributions", "pre-crowd sale buyers" and "crowd sale buyers" is what creates the bubble. In the case of Factom there are early contributors and pre-buyers pumping the bubble full of crowd sale buyers.

It would create less of a bubble if the early contributor rewards and early pre-sale investors were assigned a BTC or USD value. They could then by combined into the crowd sale and given out at the same rate as everyone else. This way anyone wanting to sell would be selling at a loss. There would not be sellers wanting out.

I see this Koinify website also ran GEMZ which was one of the biggest flops around. GEMZ crowd sale purchasers are down ~40% and have been bag holding for the last 6 months.

Because there are cheaper factoids than crowd sale price available, I can only imagine Factom will be similar to GEMZ. Down and bag holding until that miracle happens.




The term "crowd sale" is what deceived me. I thought that meant 100% of all premined/genesis coins where available to purchase through the crowd sale. Next time I will do more research when someone says "crowd sale".

Koinify should some responsibility too. In NEWS articles it should say crowd sale for __% of coins.




When I bought Factom I honestly thought I was buying into a sale that all coins were being created from.

But I thought Factoids weren't live yet, actually. I'm getting some as an Early Contributor, and I didn't get any, yet. The Factoids we're all getting don't come from the wallets of the early buyers--all Factoids are going to be initially assigned in the genesis block. When you buy Factoids, your bitcoins go to Koinify, which holds them until development milestones are achieved. Your bitcoins don't go to the early buyers.

I was deceived by Factoms marketing and NEWS stories. It wasn't until I did research that I realized there was a pre-sale prior to the crowd sale.

I like you.  Thank you for saving me the time of having to type this.

The public could have put forth the funds. The Private investors have the choice to be public investors. This would have made Factom a 1COS2COSX. A better coin than it is now.

Due to the Bubble that the 1COP2COS model creates, the early investors definitely took way less risk. The early investors are smart. There is a reason they want to get in early at a cheaper valuation.



To minimize the bubble I will also be calling out Factom to have what Andreas Antonopoulos calls real time audit tracking. All funds raised from the crowdsale and pre-crowdsale should be tracked and available to the public in real time links to transactions on the blockchain. This will ensure there was no "self buy" scam to create an even bigger bubble. The public wants to know that Factom didn't buy there own Factom or give any away for free.

I think you're being too liberal with your use of the word "scam." "Scam" is supposed to mean outright theft via deception--the victim always loses in a scam, 100% of the time. In this case, it's possible for the main crowdsale buyers to win if the price of Factoids goes up. A scam is like when you sell someone shit that isn't what you said it was, or tell them to cash a check for you and send you the money via Western Union.

It's probably true that the early buyers got a better deal (although I've not bought Factoids ever, so I can't verify), but they also took more risk. The system was not working at all, back then. It could have turned out to be a broken idea. Someone had to put forth the development funds to take it out of the realm of vaporware.

The personal names are irrelevant to me. Nothing you did was illegal, it was just sneaky. The worst thing you did was create a bubble as the early investors pump up the price with public buyers.

You can read more about this scam here: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/1cop2cos-the-pre-crowdsaleearly-saleseed-investor-scam-aka-the-bubble-scam-1158161


The Factom crowd sale was a 1COP2COS (1st coin offering private limited, 2nd coin offering public sell).

Since Factom was one of the first to perform this 1COP2COS scam I will give you guys a break. The effects of this model were not tested yet. But from now on out I will be calling out all crowdsales if they try to perfom a 1COP2COS




An important thing to note about this scam is they rely on the argument that the early funds were required. This argument does not justify a private limited coin offering. Initial funds should be raised through the public. This would give the same private investors the ability to invest into the project.

If these same private investors are not willing to invest with the public then it proves this is an over valued bubble that no one should be investing in.



If the smart investors who know about this technology aren't willing to invest with the public then you should take their advice and not invest with the public either. Don't end up a bag holder wishing on shooting stars while the early investors are cashed out with lots of profits and moving on to the next project.

I have gone into more details about this type of scam a.k.a. The Bubble Scam here: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/1cop2cos-the-pre-crowdsaleearly-saleseed-investor-scam-aka-the-bubble-scam-1158161


Factom could remedy the situation if their token isn't live yet. They could just combine the pre-crowdsale and crowdsale funds into 1 pool. Then issue the tokens as if it was 1 big legit public crowdsale. This would turn Factom into a 1COSX and a great project.

The smart and prudent early investors probably signed contracts to ensure their ability to profits from the 1COP2COS bubble.

Augur = Over hyped - quality project - no users - wait until listed on an exchange to buy in.