Topic: [ANN] KRAKEN.COM - Exchange with USD EUR GBP JPY CAD BTC LTC XRP NMC XDG STR ETH - page 205. (Read 628818 times)

Yes, good question. We are still discussing how to handle the dark pool volume. However it gets reported, it would definitely be done with a delay though. 

I have this case using the dark pool.

-I create a margin long limit order like:  BUY 50 XBT/EUR.d  LIMIT 200,  with conditional close LIMIT 202
-The order doesn't appear in the order book (dark pool) and gets filled slowly.
-Now, each time the order gets filled, a conditional close limit 200 order gets created until the buy order got filled completely.

Question:
Are these automatically created conditional close orders going to be invisible as well ( dark pool )  ?
This question arises, because the limit for a dark pool order is 50BTC.


EDIT:
I just realized that dark pool operates on a separate order book, so a 50BTC dark pool order would have to get filled at once, as the current minimum has been set to 50BTC.
So I assume a conditional close order would have to appear on the very same dark pool order book and thus would not appear to the public as well.

I believe LakeBTC offers a dark pool, and their minimum order is also 50 BTC. Remember that the dark pool is a separate market with a separate hidden order book. It's not intended as a market for bots to run on. The sole purpose of the market is as place where people can place large orders discretely. If you allow small order size, then people can now probe the hidden book with small orders to try and figure out where the orders are, so it undermines the privacy somewhat. One use case for the dark pool might be where someone puts up 10,000 BTC to sell and has previously arranged with someone else to put up a matching sell order to take it. Both parties want this to happen in private and are willing to pay an extra 0.1% fee for the privacy.

But there is a different product that is also useful, even more useful to some, and offered by some other exchanges - namely hidden orders that go to the lit pool (i.e. the normal visible order book). This type of order would be useful for dealing with the bots on the lit pool and here I agree that it does make sense to allow for smaller orders. This is something we are also looking at offering, but we consider it to be a separate product. So, stay tuned, and maybe you will be able to place hidden orders to the lit pool if that feature appeals to you.  

Not when the orders are limited to 50, but when i place an order over 2BTC, i really wouldn't care about the premium, just to protect me from the bots.
Anyway, i believe the Kraken offer to be sound.

Well, it costs an additional fee of 0.1%, so I guess that will keep people from placing dark orders. Also, the volume will probably lower than in the normal order book. So, even without a minimum limit to dark orders I do not think dark orders will be the dominant order type.

Since there is an additional fee, I don't think most user will place hidden orders. Only when it's necessary.
I looked for the minimum from bitfinex... but it seems their limit is 500BTC ?!

I'm sure those hidden orders will be displayed at the last trades, so also in the traded volume.

Wouldnt that lead to most offers being placed in the "dark"?

And will those trades show up in the volume?

Yes this a good reason. But as far as I know, other exchanges have no special minimum limit for dark orders.

Because you can add the argument:
Also for small orders it could get difficult to get filled, when there are alot of bots active.
Some aggressive bots are written that way, that they will always overbid you 0.01€ or simular. By making your order a dark order, these bots would not know about your order and would not overbid you.

So I think there should not be a limit, because both arguments have the same "value"

Yes, the minimum is 50 BTC. It could be lowered some (say maybe to 25 BTC) if we get enough requests for that. The idea behind it is to be able to place large orders without others knowing, since if other traders know about your large buy/sell interest, this might cause the market to move against you and make it harder to fill your order. So it's intended specifically as a service for placing large orders.

xD

Thanks, that answers my question

Another question about dark orders:
The Minimum limit is 50btc for this, right? Will you lower this limit some day? If so, to what minimum could that be?

Hi Serpens,
I'll try to answer these questions now before you edit this post one more time

Ok, so your dark pool orders will not be visible (to yourself) in the order book, they will only be visible in your account. And yet they will exist in the (invisible-to-clients) dark pool order book, which is not the normal order book!  

Also, you CAN create dark pool orders via API. The code is xxbtzeur.d.

Let me (or Dargo) get back to you about (b), the minimal order size

I read about the new "dark pool" feature.
Will there be a new orderbook for dark orders or are they added to the normal orderbook ? I guess the second is right, but in the email it was not clear
And in the email you wrote "the only one who is able to see the dark order is you". I created a dark buy order of 50BTC at a low price, but it was not visible for me in the orderbook.

edit:
and will Bots be able to create dark orders via API ?
a thread about dark pool:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1087121.msg0;topicseen#new


And another topic:
The minimum amount of an normal order is 0.01BTC, even via API, right? How is it possible that sometimes there are alot of orders lower than that? It was like 0.001BTC every 5 cents.  So it could not be partially filled orders.  Is there a way to place orders lower than 0.01BTC ?
If wanted I can take a screenshot next time I see it.

I will not be able to make it, but want to say how much I appreciate the opportunity. Thumbs up!

Hi All,

Our CEO, Jesse Powell, is doing a google hangout session tomorrow (Thurs 11AM PDT (UTC -7)). The title of the session is "Features, Functionality & Trader Focused Products." You will be able to view it on youtube if you miss the session.

http://www.reddit.com/r/BitcoinMarkets/comments/39b6rq/hangout_w_jesse_powell_of_kraken_features/

Edit: the session is tomorrow, not today.

What do you speak about? Creating an exchange? There are very much already and its hard to get high volumes so that you can earn enough from it. The chinese no fee exchanges will take it away from you.

If you speak about leverage trading... if you ask that way then you will lose everything practically the first day. If you want to you need to start with a very small amount, lets say $20. Then learn how to read charts and indicators and you will be very happe that you did not start with a big amount of money.

congratulations ! how much money does this business make ? I am planning to get into it and am wondering if its a good business

Glad to hear you are enjoying the service and thanks for pointing out this new feature! You can now go to History > Export in your account to get csv exports of your trading or ledger history. The basic steps are to choose the time period you want data for and you can choose the type of data you want. You then submit a request for the export. You may not get the export right away, because the request is put in a que to ensure that our system doesn't get overloaded with too many requests at once.

Thanks - the order here shouldn't matter, so this does appear to be an inconsistency and we'll look into it. Regarding the other issue where the system is requiring more margin than seems necessary, I discussed this with one of our devs and we agreed that we might be able to allow it in the way you suggest. It will be a little while yet before anything is done though, because we are looking at possibly allowing hedging soon and need to consider how this will impact things.


Yes, this is a feature that we've had quite a few requests for. I don't think a definite decision has been made on it, but I don't see why we wouldn't offer it as an option, so I expect it will be put on the "to do" list soon.

To clarify, we don't have 20:1 leverage yet, but plan this sometime in the next few weeks.