Topic: [ANN] NeuCoin - Easy to use, free to try, focused on micropayments - Official - page 89. (Read 196191 times)

Let's imagine this is wildly successful.

What is the revenue model?

Which "company" gets the revenues?

In my twisted psychopath opinion, the ONLY way to legitimately make revenues for the founders is a pump.

Giving away coins, minting 100 billion coins, puts downward pressure on the price constantly.

You know who else has 100 billion coins, all mined out?

Dogecoin.  It went viral.  Is used for micropayments!  Is taken in hundreds of places.  Benefits from massive grassroots marketing, and is worth 1/10th of the Neucoin presale price.  The Dogecoin price is the future of the Neucoin price, optimistically.  So no legitimate revenue there.  90% losses at best.

What is the revenue model that continues to pay employees, besides dumping more coins into an already saturated market?

And as to the 2% a month rule, those guys paid 25% of what the dumb public money paid.  Nothing stopped them from buying more in the presale, and dumping those into the inevitable pump.

What company runs "Neucoin" if Althouse was just a contractor?

The entire matrix of companies and foundations is set up for a quick, clean escape for the meat bags who will need to go to jail for tax evasion, securities fraud, and money laundering.  Hi DanK and Sandrine and sock puppets!

Dank gave the order to set up sock-puppets to attack the messengers.

I have the honor of being target #1 because I ask the questions that Dank does not want to address.

Also, I pay my whores in cash, not Neucoins.

Where is the actual business plan that shows the revenue model?

Who holds the keys to the Seychells straw man corporation you slime bag?  Why anonymity if you are not planning to commit crimes?

Answer that.  But you won't, because that's the key to the whole scam.  There is no revenue model besides a pump and dump.  Yours is just fancy.

Hi DanK, sure you don't.

Okay, so the coin's creators are trying to make money, and the coins will grow with proof-of-stake mining. I don't have a problem with that.

The French need to get in on this action:

https://bitcoinmagazine.com/21864/south-korean-law-enforcement-launch-investigations-altcoin-pump-dump-schemes/

neucoin Project,
ok, copy and paste, I love it.

Pretty clear most of that,(putting Althouse aside) I have read the wiki.
ok, couple of things from "Role of Founders and Project Team" paragraph,

"Upon creating the decentralized crypto currency,..."
I thought neucoin was not decentralized for another 5 years? When foundations are expected to own less than 50 %. It's not decentralized at creation is it? I thought neucoin were saying "ultimately decentralized" these days?

and,
"200 million sale-restricted coins are retained by the founders and other members of the NeuCoin Project team in exchange for contributing over $1,000,000 of unpaid work from March 2014 through the time of launch in the summer of 2015 (value of $.005 per coin)."
It's a tough sum to work out. For simplicity, if neucoin stayed at approx 1c all year, how much $ value will have been paid? Around $4m is it? For $1m work.?

and,
"The foundations have set aside an additional 300 million sale-restricted coins (plus PoS awards earned on these coins) to release to the founders over the three years following launch as compensation for their providing an additional $2.25 million of unpaid work (value of $.0075 per coin)."
Again, a tough sum. For simplicity, if neucoin stayed at approx 1c for three years, (and voting mech conditions were met) how much $ value will have been paid? Around $12m is it? For $2.25m of work?
Don't forget what Dart said, " I'm concerned as to why you plan to pay the founders after the launch at the value of $0.0075 per coin. Before creation I understand getting it at $0.005. But to get paid at a value under presale prices after launch seems wrong to me."
And being "paid at launch" for work 2-3yrs away has a multiplying effect. The $0.0075 valuation has no meaning or relevance? (in effect you are paid neucoin at $0.0015 ish at yr3. I havn't done the math.)

And, last bit,
" Note that if the foundations fail to institute the voting mechanism described below within one year of launch, the founders forfeit their rights to receive the remaining 200 million coins."
Does that include the stake rewards from day 1 on those 200m neucoin?
(thats a lot to be voting on x3 but..)
Also, is the voting mechanism going to be email based or crypto based? If not known, is email likely? Is email within the conditions of reward? Is the voting mech part of the reason behind 1 address per myneucoin?

(the council hire / fire and 3yr /1yr bit is confusing. can you check if you think it is clear, I'll look again?) And that's it.

So, just a few clarifications here please, and we are all good? hopefully we can then do the freemium verification process?

Oh btw, Dart did ask a while ago "Will the expected expenditures for the year be released at launch?"  So,..
 
If anyone is worried about Dart. He was seen, but not heard on neucoin forum, a few hours ago.
Is he clearing his desk?

I'll add another one:
-Does it hide behind strawperson and anonymous off-shores to evade tax and responsibility?

Indeed, skimming through the previous pages will bring up answers for all these points and none of them is looking good for nokoin.
In case of doubts, there's always good old Google

Until the muppets can bring up real, new facts for the issues above, I'll just keep hitting the ignore button

Have fun trolling, DanK

"at least $1.2 million"

$300,000

$600,000

$600,000


$300,000 + $600,000 + $600,000 = $1.5 million

vs

"at least $1.2 million"


Can you elaborate?

Really. So let's listen to Dank:

^
Would help if you emphasize the sentences that are not copy-pasted from known places/sources.

A vast majority, maybe everything, seems to be old information from wiki, articles and co.

Much noise has recently been posted about “Althouse” on this thread. Althouse is simply a software development company that has employed some members of the NeuCoin team prior to launch of the cryptocurrency. It has been doing contract work for the NeuCoin Foundations that will largely finish by the time of launch. It has no power or control over the NeuCoin Project. There are numerous other legal entities that have likewise done contract work for the NeuCoin Project, such as web design agencies, law firms, PR and marketing agencies, jurisdictional consultants, and a game development studio.

The key NeuCoin entities from the time of launch are the NeuCoin Code Foundation, the NeuCoin Utility Foundation and the NeuCoin Growth Foundation, as well as their wholly-owned subsidiaries. More information about all these entities will be provided upon NeuCoin’s launch. For now, see below. Much more content can be found at http://www.neucoin.org/en/wiki/.

NeuCoin Foundations

NeuCoin’s core development, consumer marketing, and projects to increase the coin’s utility will be handled by three independent non-profit foundations based in the Isle of Man – the Code, Growth and Utility foundations. Three separate foundations with distinct functions and resources were created rather than a single one, with the object of making this support of the cryptocurrency even more decentralized. This structure also affords NeuCoin greater flexibility and adaptability to navigate the international regulatory environment for cryptocurrencies that is still evolving.

Although the three foundations are independent of each other, they all share the same mission – to maximize the long-term value of NeuCoin. Each one is overseen by independent Council Members, who are aided by Advisors with experience in cryptocurrencies, consumer marketing, economics, finance and regulatory matters.
All foundations are ultimately controlled by NeuCoin holders (1 NeuCoin = 1 vote), who have the power to hire, fire and set compensation for the foundations’ Council Members, and have a right of approval on annual budgets, spending priorities and other matters.

Funding and Expenditures

By the time of launch, NeuCoin’s three non-profit foundations will be funded with 2.4 billion NeuCoins and at least $1.2 million (enough fiat currency to cover their first year cash expenditures).
Each year, the foundations’ goal is to sell sufficient NeuCoin tokens through private sales or exchanges to fund the following year’s cash needs. However, when NeuCoin prices rise, the foundations may sell additional coins, with the excess cash obtained kept as a “rainy day” reserve. When prices fall, fewer (or zero) coins will be sold. 

Over time, the NeuCoin foundations must continuously determine what the optimal use of their NeuCoin assets are - optimal from the perspective of maximizing the value of NeuCoin. The Growth foundation must always assess whether NeuCoin’s long-term value would be maximized by giving more coins away to consumers, or selling more coins and using the funds for consumer marketing. The Utility foundation must always assess whether NeuCoin’s long-term value would be maximized by awarding more coins (ideally with sales restrictions) to service providers that make NeuCoin more useful, or by selling more coins and using the proceeds to directly fund projects. The prevailing price and demand for NeuCoin will always have a large bearing on this decision calculus.

During the first few years after launch, the number of NeuCoin tokens held by the foundations is expected to increase, because the extremely high PoS awards during the early years should be considerably higher than the foundations’ expenses. Foundation coin holdings are projected to peak around year five, then decline slowly and ultimately stabilize at under 10% of the total supply.
Direct Democracy and Accountability

Each foundation will be managed by an Executive Director and overseen by Council Members whose compensation packages are tightly linked to the growth in the market capitalization of NeuCoin. Furthermore, each foundation has an “Enforcer,” whose oversight role is to ensure that the Council Members are following the objectives and rules of the foundation and the results of coin holder votes as discussed below.
The initial Council Members were recruited and appointed by NeuCoin’s founders and will serve for an initial term of three years. In the first year, the Council Members will be primarily composed of members of the NeuCoin Project team (however not founders). By the end of year one, the foundations will each recruit two independent Council Members and some of the NeuCoin Project team Council Members will resign from the Councils. After the first term, Council Members will stand for re-election for consecutive three year terms.

Within a year after launch, NeuCoin holders will effectively take full control of the NeuCoin foundations. Using a voting mechanism currently under development by the NeuCoin Code Foundation, NeuCoin holders will be able to “vote their coins” (1 NeuCoin = 1 vote). With a majority vote, coin holders will be able to:
Remove Council Members and Enforcers
Change the compensation of Council Members and Enforcers
Change the Foundation Rules
Change the Budget
Force the Council Members and Enforcers to take any action that a majority of coin holders believes will increase the value of NeuCoin
Note that the NeuCoin Code Foundation, with the support of the founding team, is committed to launching the voting mechanism as soon as possible after the creation of the cryptocurrency. The founding team faces severe financial penalties if the voting mechanism isn’t operational within a year for any reason.

Role of Founders and Project Team 

Upon creating the decentralized cryptocurrency, the NeuCoin Project’s four founders are donating NeuCoin’s source code and the 2.8 billion pre-mined coins to the NeuCoin foundations. 200 million sale-restricted coins are retained by the founders and other members of the NeuCoin Project team in exchange for contributing over $1,000,000 of unpaid work from March 2014 through the time of launch in the summer of 2015 (value of $.005 per coin).
While the founders led the NeuCoin Project during its development phase, they are relinquishing control of the decentralized cryptocurrency upon its launch and will not serve as Council Members or Enforcers of any of the foundations or their subsidiaries or affiliates. However, the founders have committed to continue working for the NeuCoin Project for three years after launch, providing marketing, business and technology development services. The foundations have set aside an additional 300 million sale-restricted coins (plus PoS awards earned on these coins) to release to the founders over the three years following launch as compensation for their providing an additional $2.25 million of unpaid work (value of $.0075 per coin). Note that if the foundations fail to institute the voting mechanism described below within one year of launch, the founders forfeit their rights to receive the remaining 200 million coins.

NeuCoin Code Foundation

The Code foundation’s mission is to maximize NeuCoin’s long-term value through stewardship of the source code. Its main goals for the code are:
Security
Decentralization
Scalability
Development and maintenance of NeuCoin’s voting mechanism
Besides core code development, other activities of the Code foundation are:
Building a community of developers
Distributing bounties to community members in proportion to their contributions
Continuing to refine NeuCoin’s technical white paper and advocate its PoS design to the cryptocurrency community
Operating nodes if necessary
Initial funding:
400 million NeuCoins
$300,000

NeuCoin Growth Foundation

The Growth foundation’s mission is to maximize the long-term value of NeuCoin by attempting to grow the largest possible base of users. It will deploy its endowment of NeuCoins in three primary ways:
Distributing small amounts of NeuCoin tokens for free to two types of audiences:
“Freemium” service users. Key success metric is that recipients, on average, find NeuCoin useful enough that when their free coins run out, they buy more
Existing Bitcoin and altcoin users during NeuCoin’s early utility growth period. Key success metric is that recipients, on average, find NeuCoin attractive enough that on top of the free tokens they received, they buy more     
Awarding free NeuCoin tokens to people and companies who refer new users to NeuCoin:
Existing user referral program
Celebrities, key bloggers and and other major endorsers
Marketing partners who accept payment for their services in the form of resale-restricted NeuCoin
Game publishers, premium content providers and other distribution partners, as user acquisition bounties
Selling NeuCoin tokens through exchanges and uses the proceeds for:
Marketing campaigns targeted at consumers who would appreciate NeuCoin’s benefits
Developing onboarding websites, such as GetNeuCoin.com, consumer education materials, tutorials, etc.
Developing viral and social applications and experiences that promote the growth of the user base
Initial funding:
1 billion NeuCoins
$600,000

NeuCoin Utility Foundation

The Utility foundation works to maximize the value of NeuCoin by making NeuCoin both “as easy to use” as possible, and “more useful than traditional currencies” for specific applications. It uses its resources in two ways:
Awards NeuCoin tokens to service providers serving other cryptocurrencies in exchange for integrating NeuCoin into their platforms:
Exchanges are top priority
Payment processors and third-party wallets are second priority
Gambling sites, remittance services, discount shopping services and other high-value cryptocurrency service providers over time
Directly funds projects when there are no established players to simply plug into:
MyNeuCoin, the consumer-friendly online wallet
Proof-of-stake mining service in form of simple “growth account” and “vault” for sale restricted coins
Micropayment platforms for tipping and premium content in relevant verticals like music, video, games, blogs, photo, editorial, adult, social media platforms, etc
Discount buying services
Other applications, platforms or services that increase the utility and ease of use of NeuCoin
Initial funding:
1 billion NeuCoins
$600,000

Kuato, I would like to expand, give a short account of why I'm worried.

"Rizz, I am glad that you can accept the possibility that the Neucoin team will in fact honor their 2%/month sales restrictions. You may be doubtful of it while I am highly confident of it, but that's a very reasonable difference of opinion."

I can except that possibility, quite easily.
If a structured, verifiable system was in place, I would be "happy" with that.
But there are other financial concerns that need clarifying, also.

There are other ways neucoin tokens can be gained by the "team". (Term used loosely) Other ways the system COULD be open to abuse.
Freemium distribution to businesses.
Freemium distribution to the masses.
We know these rewards will be given to "team" and others in varying proportion. (I believe that is accepted fact?)
But we know not how many. This could be a hard figure to exact, but some calculated estimates is surely critical and proper?
(this is a business for the masses, not some garage basement throw together?)
How many coins is jango LIKELY to receive for example?
How can these rewards be verified?
How can rewards in general be verified?
If it takes 2bn neucoin to get jango running, is that ok?

It's too vague without figures.
How much do the team really stand to make? We don't know.
Even if I DID trust them, This should all be verifiable? Just to be sure, everyone can chill. (on that subject)


I can think of other ways the team could get coins, undeclared, but let's stick to these obvious ones first. (If clear details existed, maybe my other possibilities wouldn't exist?)

Launch was "delayed", good. Because none of these details had been provided then, or yet, as promised. Launch was abandoned 2 days before possible go live, where was this info then? (and all the rest)
If neucoin is not built on blind faith, which has been denied, why are these details not forth coming. As promised? Will it all come in one mad untimely scramble "at" launch? Bit crap that.
Launch was planned for months ago, originally. Fair enough some tech problems, but info on the whole structure of neucoin can't still being written? With neucoin it's always coming, later, get back to you, hope this helps.


Other financial facts really need addressing, the $2.25m cash claim. never addressed by neucoin even after edit by coin telegraph.
ect. ect.

Loads of other important stuff to be announced, or is being asked.

One step at a time.
soon?

It's even possible that Sandrine is a pseudonym of Donald Trump - the probability is just extremly small.

The best we can do here is judge based on known and observable facts:
- Neucon pump marketing: Storming many forums, posting only happy events, buttering up the project by promising easy free coins
- Bold claims without backup: Whitepaper, marketing, deadlines
- Not answering displeasing questions in general
- Not answering technical questions or strategical questions with a certain depth
- Engaging an army of sockpuppets
- Banning unpleasent users and calling critics trolls

That's my current perception of Neucon and team and it's gonna take a lot of work to change that.

PS: I don't know if they are scammers, but the behavior makes me believe that the possibility of them being is way more likely than not. Maybe it's all just way over their heads and they don't have the balls to admit it. Who knows for sure, but in the meantime I would highly advise everybody to stay away from Paycon.

Kuato
"Rizz, I am glad that you can accept the possibility that the Neucoin team will in fact honor their 2%/month sales restrictions. You may be doubtful of it while I am highly confident of it, but that's a very reasonable difference of opinion."

Good, as you said just earlier, "I really hope that Neucoin has some way of proving that they can enforce these sales restrictions." That's the whole point. WHY NOT TELL US.
It has been promised. (along with all the other info I highlight)

"I am curious if other critics also accept the *possibility* that the Neucoin team are not scammers/frauds/cheats"

I never said they weren't scammers. I would listen to substance about why they are not, but all awkward questions pretty much go unexplained, doesn't help. Any explanations about anything are only released in untimely, unprofessional, knee jerk responses. I highlight the failings of the superstar team, of which there appear to be many. That is where my worries start, regardless the big scam accusations.

I cant be bothered with the link at the moment, sorry.

" I agree that the communication from Neucoin since the presale has been mediocre, but I guess I don't find this to be a very important indicator of future success."

ok thats your opinion, but I am opposite. It's been worse than mediocre, primevalsoup would not be banned if it were that good imo.
And everything else I have written of. If you have read a lot of my posts you would know there have been many incidences, very unprofessional.
To me it is sold on this angle.

" I assume they have been swamped getting the product out the door."

I thought Sandrines role was to interface with the investors/PR.

"I don't think anyone will care about the delays or mediocre communication from presale to launch if they deliver a good service, and more than that, they successfully market it."

ok, can they market it? They cannot communicate or run a forum. I will care if there is underhand activities going on. primevalsoup might care.

"Listen, if they deliver a bad product and follow up with bad marketing, the coin will fail. People will trash it here as they should and I won't defend it (I will have sold and will never come back to this thread)."

But if it is as bad as it looks from here, people should have the opportunity to read about it, DD. I've seen almost nothing except bad marketing so far. You will have gone, sold out to some other poor sod?



Yeah Jonald, I may summarize at some point, (busy here now, eh) but it's all here on the thread if anyone was really interested in learning all the different concerns, and why they have come about. DD.

Not exactly.  There's been a laundry list of concerns, all contained in the thread.  Maybe Rizz can post a summary.

Rizz, I am glad that you can accept the possibility that the Neucoin team will in fact honor their 2%/month sales restrictions. You may be doubtful of it while I am highly confident of it, but that's a very reasonable difference of opinion.

I am curious if other critics also accept the *possibility* that the Neucoin team are not scammers/frauds/cheats. What do you say Scam Confirmed, Jonald, Real Malatesta, Tibanne?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xO1kKemcwYk 
go to :50
 

Also, I have to say that this was a good critical post. I agree that the communication from Neucoin since the presale has been mediocre, but I guess I don't find this to be a very important indicator of future success. I assume they have been swamped getting the product out the door. Obviously it took them longer than they expected.

I don't think anyone will care about the delays or mediocre communication from presale to launch if they deliver a good service, and more than that, they successfully market it.

Listen, if they deliver a bad product and follow up with bad marketing, the coin will fail. People will trash it here as they should and I won't defend it (I will have sold and will never come back to this thread).

Kauto, Gekko s' been done. I thought you wanted to talk neucoin? If you wanted to start a crusade against offensive language, maybe you shouldn't have used it yourself. you should have thought that through?

Kauto, you say
"I myself think the beta looks promising"

Funny, thats all James has to say on the beta test to date, after months of excitement.

James,
"the beta version is promising."

I expected more lavish praise from James. And the mods.
Not a peep from Dart, 7 days AWOL.
(don't think Baby has access to the test, he didn't buy presale)
M3ndi3 left her mod role. (one of neucoin's best assets)
Whateveryousayman never posts.

M3ndi3 left due to lack of clear explanations. (I think)
Is Dart gone too?
I think he is upset?
I think he maybe upset because of the FAILING'S OF THE TEAM to avoid the type of situation highlighted below?

Sandrine said, April 22,
"Hi @primevalsoup! First, let me apologize for not having answered right away to your message posted three days ago. It is indeed true that I haven't been as responsive as I used to be, and I'll be sure to get back to faster response time. Please be sure it's not laziness on my part (or the rest of the team, who's concentrating on the presale and the July launch) or dismissal of important questions. Anyways, three days to get an answer to your very relevant questions is indeed a long time, I'm sorry for this."
http://forum.neucoin.org/t/questions-about-escrow/539/7

But the responses never did get better. Over 4 months of promise, silence, apologize, repeat.

Newbie asks, May 15, (in this now defunkt(?) ,igonred topic about distribution to other crypto holders)
".....you are going to suggest that as a investor that i wouldn't have ANY type of say? What happened to Decentralization and customer service! "
http://forum.neucoin.org/t/a-fraction-3-5-of-neucoin-s-3-billion-coin-premine-would-be-distributed-to-existing-holders-of-select-digital-currencies/583/6

Dart says, in reply
"Often investors don't get a say unless they own at least 1% Did you buy 1 million coins?"

primevalsoup did buy 1m neucoin
primevalsoup was promised updates.
primevalsoup now banned.

If you scroll down to primevalsoup s' 1st posts,(link) then skim your way back up from there,  I think you will see he is a polite, seemingly ideal investor, ignored, promised to, ignored ect until he finally determines that such a badly run outfit is likely a scam as his worries could have been so easily addressed, but were not, consistently, over maybe 6 months.
http://forum.neucoin.org/users/primevalsoup/activity

The team, so badly run they end up banning their best public investor. (others previously)

Kuato, do you agree the teams' professional failings in basic customer care led to this ban by pushing primevalsoup s' patience to his limit?
Do you think this ban was really unforeseeable to a professional team? (even though I was posting about how primevalsoup was getting upset about Baby mod answering his questions back on June 20. And his troubles before that. And his troubles since.)


Ok kuato, you ask
"What if they don't sell more than the 2% per month of their holdings that they are allowed to sell? Why can't you guys even accept that this is a possibility?"

I CAN accept that possibility, but where are the details of how it will be structured. details, promised. they must surely exist somewhere, why not publish. Then the facts would be known. no more doubt.

Ditto on all the other neucoin promised details. We can see that a lack of info is good for nobody.

I just realized something important.

All troll attacks are based on the hypothesis that the Neucoin insiders and/or angels are NOT going to abide by the sales restrictions on their Neucoins.

Is that true trolls?

If the Neucoin insiders and angels only sell 2% of their Neucoins per month as is their obligation, would you still call them thieves, fraudsters, scammers, whatever?

I think most presale buyers believed that these people who have reputations would not lie/trick/steal their way around their sales restrictions.

You trolls don't believe it.

I really hope that Neucoin has some way of proving that they can enforce these sales restrictions. If they can, you trolls are going to have to come up with an entirely new angle. You're going to have to attack the project itself.

Unlike trustless decentralized cryptocurrency ecosystems NoKoin is



NoKoin is completely built on trust, its network is entirely controlled by only two central entities

http://i.imgur.com/jvo1jBw.jpg

aka four people (including mysterious Jonathan Gnassia from mysterious Althouse Development) representing the interests of a strategy made by a man who has a shady track record of ripping people off.




What makes more sense than to question the people behind this deeply centralized project and the apparent obvious intentions and motives presented by them?

Why?

Why do you care?

Are you buddies with Dan?  Why do you care if we attack him?

Why do you even care if we attack neucoin?

If this project was EVER going to be a success, surely it can handle 5 or 6 "trolls"... right?

Oh, I'm so sorry I made you cry... But obviously, you are not able to understand how business works in those days. The way you are arguing against ANY due diligence basically shows that you rather support scammers than legit businesses.

It IS - from a legal point - relevant WHICH companies are behind a project. Especially, when the public is asked for investments.

You want to see my LinkedIn-profile? Well, first of all: Where's yours? Second: The case of Sandrine perfectly shows how irrelevant those profiles are for she left out the single one relecvant company regarding NeuCoin: Althouse.

And it is just patethic when you judge someone - Gekko - by what he wrote instead of what he did....