Author

Topic: [ANN] NiceHash.com - sell & buy hash rate cloud mining service / multipool - page 341. (Read 794124 times)

sr. member
Activity: 457
Merit: 273
Hi, I recently joined.  Looks like it mined for a while but then went to all zeroes after first payment?  My bfgminer shows like it is still connected and trying to work but no accepted shares. 17vNQiv5zTQ7sAhKMqmCiZzYg1FWozDG4x

Maybee your miner wasn't able to reconnect after a connection failure ... make sure you have properly configured backup pools, stable internet connection, etc. ... PM if you have some other issues.
legendary
Activity: 2212
Merit: 1031
Hi, I recently joined.  Looks like it mined for a while but then went to all zeroes after first payment?  My bfgminer shows like it is still connected and trying to work but no accepted shares. 17vNQiv5zTQ7sAhKMqmCiZzYg1FWozDG4x

I will try a restart of my miner but this issue needs fixed...

Thanks
sr. member
Activity: 457
Merit: 273
Yeah, we're aware of it. This is also what phzi was talking about a couple of posts back. The issue is with the stratum protocol, which currently doesn't support changing the extranonce1. Therefore currently the only option is to disconnect a rig in reconnect it to new order. We'll see if we'll find a technical solution for this.
It's possible to fix =).  Multi-pools have had this issue in the past.

Hmm, stratum protocol actually doesn't support changing extranonce1 without disconnect, so I'd be very glad if you know how multi-pools solved this. And than again, NiceHash doesn't operate as a multi-pool behind the scenes, it's a quite different approach. But if you have some hint or a link please post it.
hero member
Activity: 700
Merit: 500
Yeah, we're aware of it. This is also what phzi was talking about a couple of posts back. The issue is with the stratum protocol, which currently doesn't support changing the extranonce1. Therefore currently the only option is to disconnect a rig in reconnect it to new order. We'll see if we'll find a technical solution for this.
It's possible to fix =).  Multi-pools have had this issue in the past.

However, another, organizational solution is already being implemented - will make sure orders don't switch too fast. There will be a minimum order time frame (not too long though, allowing for the buyers still to be flexible) and the possibility for order hash limit. This will allow more concurrent orders, less order switching and will make hash power providers to stay on single order for longer time. Will not be perfect, there will still be some disconnects form time to time. But at the end of the day we have to make some trade-offs between optimizations for sellers&buyers (we want to make a ~100% fair game for sellers&buyers). Stay tuned!
Sounds like a good plan.

---

I was just replying to your comment that everybody should switch from cgminer to sgminer - that's valid for GPUs only.

bfgminer has scaleability issues on Windows. Can't run more than a couple of instances, can't run more than ~20 miners. But that's another story, it's not a problem with nicehash.

I said everyone should stop using outdated mining software, and gave an example in sgminer.  Yes, sgminer is opencl only.  bfgminer would be an appropriate solution for miners with other hardware.  I have no doubt that there are scalability issues on Windows... I also have no idea why anyone would run windows on a dedicated mining rig.  And if you're using gridseeds, then a Pi is probably a better host platform solution.


---

Looks like the stratum is completely offline right now? - my miners all just fell back to a failover pool.

Nicehash.com not loading now either.
member
Activity: 74
Merit: 10
thanks to your fast answer.

Take your time to find the best solution to buyer and seller.
sr. member
Activity: 457
Merit: 273
But if you can solve the only problem that's will be perfect Smiley
When your pool switch to job there is a disconnection with the stratum server, if you can remove this disconnection Smiley
During 5-20 secondes rigs don't mining in order to reconenct the stratum server.

Yeah, we're aware of it. This is also what phzi was talking about a couple of posts back. The issue is with the stratum protocol, which currently doesn't support changing the extranonce1. Therefore currently the only option is to disconnect a rig in reconnect it to new order. We'll see if we'll find a technical solution for this. However, another, organizational solution is already being implemented - will make sure orders don't switch too fast. There will be a minimum order time frame (not too long though, allowing for the buyers still to be flexible) and the possibility for order hash limit. This will allow more concurrent orders, less order switching and will make hash power providers to stay on single order for longer time. Will not be perfect, there will still be some disconnects form time to time. But at the end of the day we have to make some trade-offs between optimizations for sellers&buyers (we want to make a ~100% fair game for sellers&buyers). Stay tuned!
member
Activity: 74
Merit: 10
Hi,

Your pool/concept is very amazing.

I put all my miner on it (~10Mhs).

But if you can solve the only problem that's will be perfect Smiley
When your pool switch to job there is a disconnection with the stratum server, if you can remove this disconnection Smiley
During 5-20 secondes rigs don't mining in order to reconenct the stratum server.
sr. member
Activity: 457
Merit: 273
Just to clarify: sgminer for Gridseed will not happen:
https://github.com/veox/sgminer/issues/154

Huh, didn't realize that Wink That's quite sad. Not nice to be a GridSeed user these days, latest cgminer is not an option since it's declared as "non-scrypt" and sgminer is not an option since it's declared as "opencl-only" Sad That leaves only two options: encourage luke-jr to incorporate GridSeed support into latest BFGminer or fork cgminer-3.7.2+upstream patches with GridSeed support and create "gsgminer" Wink

p.s.: there are already NiceHash supported options for GridSeed users, see here: https://www.nicehash.com/index.jsp?p=faq#faqs0
legendary
Activity: 3654
Merit: 8909
https://bpip.org
Anyway, the correct path would be to adopt newer software. The absolute correct path would be for the GridSeed community to step together and build modular approach for GridSeed support in sgminer/bfgminer so that it would be easy for veox/luke-jr to include support for GridSeeds in upstream versions. Not sure how to accomplish that though, community/gridseed users should step together for this.

Just to clarify: sgminer for Gridseed will not happen:
https://github.com/veox/sgminer/issues/154
legendary
Activity: 3654
Merit: 8909
https://bpip.org
sgminer doesn't support Gridseed
You can use bfgminer on gridseeds.  At least bfgminer is actively maintained with scrypt support.

I was just replying to your comment that everybody should switch from cgminer to sgminer - that's valid for GPUs only.

bfgminer has scaleability issues on Windows. Can't run more than a couple of instances, can't run more than ~20 miners. But that's another story, it's not a problem with nicehash.
sr. member
Activity: 457
Merit: 273
can anyone (kenshirothefist: *poke*) summarize the problem with cgminer 3.7.2 and NiceHash's scrypt pool, point out the breaking commit (between cgminer 3.1.1 and 3.7.2) or the fix (in sgminer) relating to it?

btw, great job on this service so far! it's great to see some innovative new pool ideas this year Grin
cgminer 3.7.2 has many many bugs that have since been patched in newer versions and branches such as sgminer.  There's really no good reason to be using an old version of cgminer anymore - switch to sgminer.

sgminer doesn't support Gridseed

Well, what we're seeing here with this cgminer-3.7.2 is similar to WinXP story ... to many users of too old software, and when support ends it's "Houston, we've got problems" Wink

Anyway, the correct path would be to adopt newer software. The absolute correct path would be for the GridSeed community to step together and build modular approach for GridSeed support in sgminer/bfgminer so that it would be easy for veox/luke-jr to include support for GridSeeds in upstream versions. Not sure how to accomplish that though, community/gridseed users should step together for this.

See FAQ "Which miners are supported?" https://www.nicehash.com/index.jsp?p=faq#faqs0 (BFGMiner is supported)

And if you really want to use cgminer, cgminer-3.1.1 (this version doesn't yet introduce the xnonce2 bug) is also supported (https://github.com/gridseed), but I really don't recommend to use these old versions.
hero member
Activity: 700
Merit: 500
sgminer doesn't support Gridseed
You can use bfgminer on gridseeds.  At least bfgminer is actively maintained with scrypt support.
sr. member
Activity: 457
Merit: 273
can anyone (kenshirothefist: *poke*) summarize the problem with cgminer 3.7.2 and NiceHash's scrypt pool, point out the breaking commit (between cgminer 3.1.1 and 3.7.2) or the fix (in sgminer) relating to it?

The bug we're talking about it related to correct handling of extra nonce 2 (extranonce2, xnonce2) size. In cgminer 3.7.2 xnonce is fixed to 4 ... however by stratum protocol this should be "dynamic/resizable". Well, actually you should ask ckolivas for details regarding that ... I'm not sure in which exact version this was patched but if you can find out I'll be very glad if you'd share the info here.
legendary
Activity: 3654
Merit: 8909
https://bpip.org
can anyone (kenshirothefist: *poke*) summarize the problem with cgminer 3.7.2 and NiceHash's scrypt pool, point out the breaking commit (between cgminer 3.1.1 and 3.7.2) or the fix (in sgminer) relating to it?

btw, great job on this service so far! it's great to see some innovative new pool ideas this year Grin
cgminer 3.7.2 has many many bugs that have since been patched in newer versions and branches such as sgminer.  There's really no good reason to be using an old version of cgminer anymore - switch to sgminer.

sgminer doesn't support Gridseed
hero member
Activity: 700
Merit: 500
can anyone (kenshirothefist: *poke*) summarize the problem with cgminer 3.7.2 and NiceHash's scrypt pool, point out the breaking commit (between cgminer 3.1.1 and 3.7.2) or the fix (in sgminer) relating to it?

btw, great job on this service so far! it's great to see some innovative new pool ideas this year Grin
cgminer 3.7.2 has many many bugs that have since been patched in newer versions and branches such as sgminer.  There's really no good reason to be using an old version of cgminer anymore - switch to sgminer.

---

Everytime the pool switches jobs, it seems to disconnect all my miners briefly.  Lost mining time appears to be 1-5 seconds everytime, but any work that was performed immediately prior is lost as well.  And sometimes when there are a bunch of small jobs, or several new jobs are posted in short succession, this is a pretty significant loss of hashrate.  It's super obvious for me, because the R9 290 fans spin up slightly when the GPU isn't under load (noise change is very noticeable).  With NiceHash, I hear the rig in my living room drop for a a few seconds several times in a minute sometimes.

I see this regularly on my consoles:
Code:
[21:50:14] Stratum connection to NiceHash interrupted
[21:50:15] NiceHash difficulty changed to 512

Code:
[21:50:14] Stratum connection to NiceHash interrupted
[21:50:14] NiceHash stratum share submission failure
[21:50:15] NiceHash difficulty changed to 512
[21:50:19] Network diff set to 84.7M
[21:50:19] New block detected on network before pool notification
[21:50:19] NiceHash communication resumed, submitting work
[21:50:20] Rejected 01529678 Diff 49.5K/512 GPU 1 NiceHash (Job not found.)

Code:
[22:08:30] Stratum connection to NiceHash interrupted
[22:08:31] NiceHash stratum share submission failure
[22:08:31] NiceHash difficulty changed to 32
[22:08:32] NiceHash difficulty changed to 64
[22:08:32] Network diff set to 10.4M
[22:08:32] Stratum from NiceHash detected new block
[22:08:32] Stratum from NiceHash requested work restart
[22:08:36] NiceHash communication resumed, submitting work
[22:08:36] Rejected cf84d7c0 Diff 316/32 GPU 4 NiceHash (Job not found.)
Code:
[22:08:30] Stratum connection to NiceHash interrupted
[22:08:30] Lost 2 shares due to stratum disconnect on NiceHash
[22:08:31] NiceHash stratum share submission failure
[22:08:31] NiceHash difficulty changed to 32
[22:08:32] NiceHash difficulty changed to 64
[22:08:32] Network diff set to 10.4M
[22:08:32] Stratum from NiceHash detected new block
[22:08:32] Stratum from NiceHash requested work restart
[22:08:36] NiceHash communication resumed, submitting work
[22:08:36] Rejected 04c785be Diff 54/32 GPU 3 NiceHash (Job not found.)
[22:08:36] Rejected 06e87f69 Diff 37/32 GPU 0 NiceHash (Job not found.)
Code:
[22:08:30] Stratum connection to NiceHash interrupted
[22:08:30] Lost 1 shares due to stratum disconnect on NiceHash
[22:08:30] NiceHash stratum share submission failure
[22:08:31] NiceHash difficulty changed to 32
[22:08:32] NiceHash difficulty changed to 64
[22:08:32] Network diff set to 10.4M
[22:08:32] Stratum from NiceHash detected new block
[22:08:32] Stratum from NiceHash requested work restart
[22:08:35] NiceHash communication resumed, submitting work
[22:08:36] Rejected 02350f7d Diff 116/32 GPU 2 NiceHash (Job not found.)
[22:08:36] Rejected 07b180d4 Diff 33/32 GPU 4 NiceHash (Job not found.)

There's no reason for the stratum server to be disconnecting miners like this when switching jobs.  Please fix.

Also, the server has been dropping me to down to low-diff on reconnects sometimes, even thought I have p=5.0;d=512 set as my password.

---

Edit: just observed 3 connection drops within 20 seconds.
member
Activity: 61
Merit: 10
can anyone (kenshirothefist: *poke*) summarize the problem with cgminer 3.7.2 and NiceHash's scrypt pool, point out the breaking commit (between cgminer 3.1.1 and 3.7.2) or the fix (in sgminer) relating to it?

btw, great job on this service so far! it's great to see some innovative new pool ideas this year Grin
newbie
Activity: 26
Merit: 0
Man, this pool (or hashrate exchange) is amazing! Especially the part where you can set both your minimum prize and diff as just your password.
Also, Since the last update my reject rates dropped to 0.5% from 5-7% earlier, keep up the good work!
hero member
Activity: 700
Merit: 500
phzi, are you reading my mind? Wink That's exactly what we've been working on recently. We've implemented the first version of reject scheme and now you should see a lot less rejects. We've updated our stale shares detection about 15 minutes ago. Please check the reject rate in the past 10 minutes and let me know if it is any better (also check your graphs stats on NiceHash).
Heh, awesome.  Reject rates seem to have dropped into much more acceptable territory!  Nice work.  I will monitor for the next 24hr and try to remember to post again.

Yeah, this issue was due to "partly-bad" end-point pools ... It's easy to detect when pool is really bad or really good, the tricky part is to detect when pool is "swapping". We also improved this - let me know if you still see "not responding" messages.

Thanks for your feedback!
Thanks for listening.  Looking forward to seeing this pool grow.
sr. member
Activity: 457
Merit: 273
We'll make sure it's a 100% fair game for sellers and buyers. Currently we've already resolved all the issues regarding general validation of the shares and this is already implemented. Provider is paid for all valid work it produces (even if some of this valid work is rejected by the buyers pool, because pool is not operating correctly).
Be nice if it was true...  So far it certainly doesn't seem that way.  You want fair?  Then you need to implement a straight forward reject scheme such as, "shares submitted >1200ms after validity will be rejected".

phzi, are you reading my mind? Wink That's exactly what we've been working on recently. We've implemented the first version of reject scheme and now you should see a lot less rejects. We've updated our stale shares detection about 15 minutes ago. Please check the reject rate in the past 10 minutes and let me know if it is any better (also check your graphs stats on NiceHash).

One more question:
The pool regularly stops accepting hashes for up to 10 seconds at a time:
Code:
[17:22:13] stratum.nicehash.com not responding!
<...>
[17:22:22] Work available from pools, resuming.

I presume this happens on job switches due to an inefficiency in the stratum implementation?  Regularly losing 10 seconds of work sucks quite badly, and is costing rigs here an extra percent or so of potential profit.

Yeah, this issue was due to "partly-bad" end-point pools ... It's easy to detect when pool is really bad or really good, the tricky part is to detect when pool is "swapping". We also improved this - let me know if you still see "not responding" messages.

Thanks for your feedback!
hero member
Activity: 700
Merit: 500
You can lower your share diff with "d=128" or whatever you want as password, so you submit shares more often you know.
I fail to understand how this is relevant to anything?  Share difficulty affects ONLY variance.  It has NOTHING to do with reject rates (a miner at 2048 diff vs 64 diff will be discover an identical number of valid shares, statistically speaking).

You're partly right about this. Please, take a look at FAQ (you probably already did) "How exactly does pay-per-valid-share and get-paid-per-valid share work?" - https://www.nicehash.com/index.jsp?p=faq#faqg2
Appreciate the link.  I did read everything on the site, and this entire thread before I directed any hashing power here, however.

We'll make sure it's a 100% fair game for sellers and buyers. Currently we've already resolved all the issues regarding general validation of the shares and this is already implemented. Provider is paid for all valid work it produces (even if some of this valid work is rejected by the buyers pool, because pool is not operating correctly).
Be nice if it was true...  So far it certainly doesn't seem that way.  You want fair?  Then you need to implement a straight forward reject scheme such as, "shares submitted >1200ms after validity will be rejected".  If you base rejects on the last block found, then you will never have a fair system, because that fairness will be completely destroyed when low-diff coins are mined.  Otherwise, the highest BTC/MH job won't actually yield the highest BTC/MH, rendering this pool's entire work prioritization scheme broken.  If the pool it putting enough hashrate on a job to orphan it's own blocks (I saw at least a dozen shares from my rigs that were valid blocks get rejected in under 2 minutes at one point!), then the pool is not operating optimally or IMO even within acceptable operating tolerances.

What we're currently working on is better validation of stale shares. When a buy order is set to a pool that produces excessive stale shares on the provider side, provider is actually not being paid for those stale shares. However, even without intelligent stale shares detection we're not talking about 50% rejects but more like 5-10% worst-case scenarios.
Try 10% minimum.  With properly tuned rigs that average <1% on most constant coin pools, and <3% on multi-pools, over the last 24hr I am getting >10% rejects here.  And for several periods where there were high-diff coins getting mined... it was > 40% rejects for several minutes!!!

But this is the exact same reject rate that a provider would have to "swallow" if you would be mining on any other pool or multipool which is hitting high-profitability fast-switching low-diff coins. But since our service is about renting (valid) hash power, buyer should pay for all the valid work that he gets, even if these are stale shares (buyer is the one that chooses a pool that produces stale shares) - therefore we'll improve this.
It is the amount that the person mining has to "swallow" when mining at a multi-pool, definitely!  The person MINING at the pool must swallow, being key.  The buyer is the person mining at a pool in this case, and they should be swallowing the cost of rejects due to their pool choice.  NOT the miner.  Otherwise, you need to allow miners to exclude jobs, or only select the jobs they want.

Anyway - stale shares validation is currently being tested - will let you know when it's fully implemented.
Glad to hear this is still being worked on.  I will definitely keep an eye and a few MH here for monitoring purposes.

---

Overall tho, I have to warn the majority of miners to be careful of this pool for now.  Due to the "we penalize only the miner for rejects" scheme, even with a properly tuned rig at low intensity you will see > 10% rejects at NiceHash.com.  I provided a large portion of his pool's hashing power (around 10%) for over 24 hours, and my with response tuned miners (low intensity, tuned down even), reject rate has been >11% on average.  This is completely unacceptable and needs to be fixed.  I would have made more mining at WafflePool for the same period, once you account for the reject rate.

NiceHash badly needs to adjust their reject scheme to at least partially penalize the buyer for choosing a high-reject pool or coin before this can possibly be a viable system.  Penalizing the hash provider based on the buyer's decision to mine a low-diff shit coin is absolutely ridiculous.  It would make significantly more sense to charge based on average reject rate, vs 0% reject rate.

---

I think your definition of "valid" hashpower needs to change if this model is to remain viable.  And I say this not because I wish to attack this site, but rather because I would like to see it succeed.

---

One more question:
The pool regularly stops accepting hashes for up to 10 seconds at a time:
Code:
[17:22:13] stratum.nicehash.com not responding!
<...>
[17:22:22] Work available from pools, resuming.

I presume this happens on job switches due to an inefficiency in the stratum implementation?  Regularly losing 10 seconds of work sucks quite badly, and is costing rigs here an extra percent or so of potential profit.
Jump to: