[ANN] Spondoolies-Tech - carrier grade, data center ready mining rigs - page 363.

Guy Corem

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Spondoolies, Beam & DAGlabs

Quote from: hdbuck on September 13, 2014, 04:31:16 AM

These competition points raised by Sptech could be valid, but i think he forgot about a major factor that may undermine the whole industrials at this point: btc price..
Whatever cheap electricity or manufacturing costs you could get, peofitability will be driven by btc price obviously. And with it stabilisîng or tanking even more, some rushers might get squeezed and go bankrupt.
Interesting times ahead.

Under current BTC value, the bounty is $1.2BN until the next block incentive halve.
For sake of argument (only

), let's assume you're able to develop 0.2 $/GHs or 0.1 $/GHs (or below

) hardware.
How does the math look like ?

jimmothy

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Quote from: Bicknellski on September 13, 2014, 05:05:05 AM

I wouldn't be betting against what Guy is putting out here. There is certainly a deepening divide in the quality and if you are required to go develop or find a

Quote

1) Team or access to team with years of circuit design experience in advance nodes.

Who has that team or access to that team?

BFL? Pfft
Bitmain?
Bitfury?
KnC?
Avalon? Really you'd trust them given their last few offerings chip wise. Nope.

Who is left that is actually not struggling with current tech?

How am I (or Guy) supposed to know without knowing every member of every team and each of their experience in advanced nodes?

Is Israel the only country with people who have experience in advanced nodes?

Not sure what you mean by struggling. Is bitmain selling out batch after batch of S3's considered struggling?

Quote

You seem to ignore the actual product that SPTech has shipped is exceptionally well engineered. Go ask the competition about it. Some of the people I have talked with WISH they had the team SPTech has.

It's a nice product and efficient chip (even though they advertised much better) but I'm not going to share my magic crystal ball readings about their future potential.

I'm just wondering why a company who has hardware development problems of their own is suggesting all companies from China will all of the sudden stop being competitive. All evidence would suggest the contrary.

Biffa

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Quote from: bobsmoke on September 13, 2014, 05:37:00 AM

Hello All,

How did the SP upgrade to 2.3.43 went?
Did anyone have had to manual power cycle the machines?

thx

Mine went seamlessly, and then to 2.3.46 as well. Haven't seen it make any difference though

bobsmoke

sr. member

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Hello All,

How did the SP upgrade to 2.3.43 went?
Did anyone have had to manual power cycle the machines?

thx

Bicknellski

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Activity: 924

Merit: 1000

Quote from: jimmothy on September 13, 2014, 04:58:26 AM

Who is high on your list? The russian self taught asic designer? One of the several scammy american companies? Or the superior in every way israeli manufacturer who still needs to take preorders on way overpriced hardware?

1. Did you miss the announcement of avalons 28nm? (The 3rd chinese company to successfully make a 28nm chip)
2. Are you sure absolutely nobody in china can get electricity below $0.03/kwh? Is there a reason the farms need to be built in china?

What kind of NDA let's you spread rumors/speculation but doesn't let you disclose the source? Maybe it's because these sources don't want to be held accountable for spreading lies?

I wouldn't be betting against what Guy is putting out here. There is certainly a deepening divide in the quality and if you are required to go develop or find a

Quote from: hdbuck on September 13, 2014, 04:31:16 AM

These competition points raised by Sptech could be valid, but i think he forgot about a major factor that may undermine the whole industrials at this point: btc price..
Whatever cheap electricity or manufacturing costs you could get, profitability will be driven by btc price obviously. And with it stabilisîng or tanking even more, some rushers might get squeezed and go bankrupt.
Interesting times ahead.

Exactly. The whole economy this is based on could collapse.

jimmothy

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Quote from: Guy Corem on September 13, 2014, 12:50:42 AM

Quote from: windpath on September 12, 2014, 03:30:56 PM

Quote from: Guy Corem on September 12, 2014, 02:52:53 PM

I have respect to AM and Bitmain past achievements, but they're not high on my list. I don't believe China will be able to compete in 2015

Can you elaborate as to why?

I'm under NDA with various parties, so I can't give concrete information.

In general, to win in 2015 you'll need in descending order of importance:
1) Team or access to team with years of circuit design experience in advance nodes.
2) Access to cheap electricity - sub 0.03 $/KWh or less
3) Cheap production

From what I was able to learn, the Chinese teams (including some publically unknown) has only (3) above.
Some of them are rushing to bleeding edge nodes (TSMC 16 or Samsung/GF 14) but it's not enough.

Who is high on your list? The russian self taught asic designer? One of the several scammy american companies? Or the superior in every way israeli manufacturer who still needs to take preorders on way overpriced hardware?

1. Did you miss the announcement of avalons 28nm? (The 3rd chinese company to successfully make a 28nm chip)
2. Are you sure absolutely nobody in china can get electricity below $0.03/kwh? Is there a reason the farms need to be built in china?

What kind of NDA let's you spread rumors/speculation but doesn't let you disclose the source? Maybe it's because these sources don't want to be held accountable for spreading lies?

hdbuck

legendary

Activity: 1260

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These competition points raised by Sptech could be valid, but i think he forgot about a major factor that may undermine the whole industrials at this point: btc price..
Whatever cheap electricity or manufacturing costs you could get, peofitability will be driven by btc price obviously. And with it stabilisîng or tanking even more, some rushers might get squeezed and go bankrupt.
Interesting times ahead.

Searing

copper member

Activity: 2898

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Clueless!

Quote from: Guy Corem on September 13, 2014, 02:38:25 AM

My reply is regarding 2015, which will be all about mega industrial farms or franchise / JV type deployments.
Access to multi MW low cost electricity will be the limiting factor. China lacks cheap electricity and free MWs.

No issue with IP protection, manufacturing is done at Taiwan (TSMC) at least for us.

Yeah what I figured also at 15c/kwh (the ave rate in the usa) I'm blown out of home mining as will be most of us in the states I imagine....price of equip vs the 15c/kwh price
no frigging way....I guess there is some cheap elec oregon way and elsewhere...but with sp and others still dumping equip and all the people 'mistakenly imho' thinking they can ROI with cloud hashing....best maybe i get out of the way for a couple months and wait and see if any chance with a spondoolies product down the road ..but with my elec costs am not too hopeful...on new equipment anyway..good spondoolies is trying but they have costs and price point they need to meet..just too weird here even for bitcoin imho lately

anyway spondoolies is prob doing just fine w/o me (sad can't pull off home mining anymore..math is a cruel bitch on ROI/etc etc)

Searing

Collider

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Quote from: OgNasty on September 13, 2014, 02:41:45 AM

No love for the little guy anymore?

You may be reading this wrong.

As economy of scale works in favour of bigger installations, come next year we will see an even higher percentage of mining in big data centers.

Spondoolies is pushing for their next generation product and while the exact method of sale is still unclear, it will very likely be in the form of managed GH / shares of a mining venture / all-inclusive service.

Edit: I see spondoolies was faster than me Wink

Guy Corem

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Spondoolies, Beam & DAGlabs

Quote from: OgNasty on September 13, 2014, 02:41:45 AM

No love for the little guy anymore?

Always. It depends on our relative advantage.
In 2015, it might be in a form of a mining facility "bond".

OgNasty

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Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform

Quote from: Guy Corem on September 13, 2014, 02:38:25 AM

My reply is regarding 2015, which will be all about mega industrial farms or franchise / JV type deployments.
Access to multi MW low cost electricity will be the limiting factor. China lacks cheap electricity and free MWs.

No issue with IP protection, manufacturing is done at Taiwan (TSMC) at least for us.

No love for the little guy anymore?

Guy Corem

donator

Activity: 1414

Merit: 1051

Spondoolies, Beam & DAGlabs

Quote from: User705 on September 13, 2014, 02:22:35 AM

number 2 is pretty irrelevant for miner manufacturing. Question regarding number 1. How strong is IP protection since you still have to get the chips made over there anyways?

My reply is regarding 2015, which will be all about mega industrial farms or franchise / JV type deployments.
Access to multi MW low cost electricity will be the limiting factor. China lacks cheap electricity and free MWs.

No issue with IP protection, manufacturing is done at Taiwan (TSMC) at least for us.

User705

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First 100% Liquid Stablecoin Backed by Gold

Quote from: Guy Corem on September 13, 2014, 12:50:42 AM

Quote from: windpath on September 12, 2014, 03:30:56 PM

Quote from: Guy Corem on September 12, 2014, 02:52:53 PM

I have respect to AM and Bitmain past achievements, but they're not high on my list. I don't believe China will be able to compete in 2015

Can you elaborate as to why?

I'm under NDA with various parties, so I can't give concrete information.

In general, to win in 2015 you'll need in descending order of importance:
1) Team or access to team with years of circuit design experience in advance nodes.
2) Access to cheap electricity - sub 0.03 $/KWh or less
3) Cheap production

From what I was able to learn, the Chinese teams (including some publically unknown) has only (3) above.
Some of them are rushing to bleeding edge nodes (TSMC 16 or Samsung/GF 14) but it's not enough.

number 2 is pretty irrelevant for miner manufacturing. Question regarding number 1. How strong is IP protection since you still have to get the chips made over there anyways?

-ck

legendary

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Ruu \o/

Quote from: Master One on September 13, 2014, 01:29:43 AM

That alone should be THE reason to prefer SP over Antminer!

To be fair, bitmain are a close second, putting their code up when requested, but it's a fork and not really mergeable with the mainline cgminer code as is; they expect us to make it mergeable but then when Kano did that with the S1 code they never bothered to get back in sync with the mainline code. This ends up being worse for both parties but there is cooperation unlike with a lot of companies.

Spondoolies on the other hand are following and staying in sync with the mainline cgminer code which is the reference for how it should be done and they should be lauded for it. Other companies have done this in the past and after a while given up and done whatever they wanted and ignored us even though their hardware is absolutely dependent on our software - in the end they have missed out on guidance from the very people who wrote the software, and features and bugfixes in newer cgminer versions.

Master One

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That alone should be THE reason to prefer SP over Antminer!

-ck

legendary

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Ruu \o/

Quote from: zvisha on September 13, 2014, 01:07:25 AM

Quote from: Master One on September 12, 2014, 11:52:03 PM

Because it's a major discussion in the S3 Thread:

Is Spondoolies-Tech using the latest version of cgminer (v4.6.0) in all their products?

We pull latest cgminer from github every time we build.

Spondoolies is the ONLY company remaining that is in sync with the mainline cgminer code and always push upstream any driver changes.

zvisha

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Quote from: Master One on September 12, 2014, 11:52:03 PM

Because it's a major discussion in the S3 Thread:

Is Spondoolies-Tech using the latest version of cgminer (v4.6.0) in all their products?

We pull latest cgminer from github every time we build.

Guy Corem

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Spondoolies, Beam & DAGlabs

Quote from: windpath on September 12, 2014, 03:30:56 PM

Quote from: Guy Corem on September 12, 2014, 02:52:53 PM

I have respect to AM and Bitmain past achievements, but they're not high on my list. I don't believe China will be able to compete in 2015

Can you elaborate as to why?

I'm under NDA with various parties, so I can't give concrete information.

In general, to win in 2015 you'll need in descending order of importance:
1) Team or access to team with years of circuit design experience in advance nodes.
2) Access to cheap electricity - sub 0.03 $/KWh or less
3) Cheap production

From what I was able to learn, the Chinese teams (including some publically unknown) has only (3) above.
Some of them are rushing to bleeding edge nodes (TSMC 16 or Samsung/GF 14) but it's not enough.

Master One

full member

Activity: 238

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Wanna buy a Tesla? Visit TeslaBargain.com first!

Because it's a major discussion in the S3 Thread:

Is Spondoolies-Tech using the latest version of cgminer (v4.6.0) in all their products?

Biodom

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Merit: 4331

Quote from: pmorici on September 12, 2014, 10:47:00 PM

Does anyone know if the 4 power inputs on the SP20 are independent? ie: can I use multiple separate PSUs w/o causing a problem? I looked on the product page but didn't see anything in the specs either way.

Guy (Spondoolies-tech) already posted about it:

you can use 2X600W PSU
or 4X300W PSU according to him (perhaps he was joking about the latter one) with the only caveat that PCIE connector has to be rated for ~300W (ATX)-this is actually in bold red in TOS for Sp-20. This information is typically not readily available, but can be had from manufacturers on request.
Seasonic X-1050 and EVGA 1300 have this type of connectors. First-according to Guy, second-according to the post on the KNC forum that I cited beforehand.

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