Topic: [ANN] Spondoolies-Tech - carrier grade, data center ready mining rigs - page 503. (Read 1260354 times)

KnC were the first to have a high end asic (28nm), and were taking pre-orders in June 2013, with deliveries starting in september.  they took huge pre-orders.. and continued selling from stock after deliveries arrived.  they had the benefit of being one of the first large scale companies who got most things right, and they were early enough to have very good margins.  they were selling at $17/GH.  Compare that to Spondoolies who are selling the SP30 at less than $1/GH !   the costs arent significantly different so they had a huge margin advantage.  Spondoolies is operating with MUCH slimmer margins than KnC was operating at when it launched the jupiter (and even neptune)

then they delivered more or less on time with something that was more or less what people thought they were getting, so they got a lot of goodwill (and plenty of cash).   When it came time for them to do pre-orders for neptune, they had significant goodwill and a rising bitcoin price meant people were eager to place big ticket pre-orders.   for neptune, customer pre-orders helped them underwrite their production costs... but if they didnt have pre-orders they wouldve still been able to build a pretty sizeable private mine.. just maybe not as big as it is now.

Come on now, SP-T has given us much more than promises. I have been running their SP10's for months now, they were delivered on time and in Great working order. They have supported the SP10 with several firmware updates and community support. WE, BTC miners and the manufacturers building for US, are pushing the envelope so no surprise we fall short, Hell I can not even dunk...

Anyway pre-order is DEAD!..  WE need to share in the rewards as WE are always left with the check.

IMNSHO of course..

It is about time, hell my S3's are almost a week old 

Go check the S3 thread.
The 30% of the S3 underperform to less than 400Ghs.

Ask myself also, I bought 20 of them.

What did BitMain do? Delivered on time and refunded difference in performance? Oh maybe you expect perfection, um yeah I used to believe in Santy Claus too..

Are you kidding us???

Knc did not require preorders to build their huge datafarms?

Be serious man.

Most guys here bitching never had any SP miner neither ever preordered one.

Hence , STFU until we have detailed reply from SP Tech.

the reality is there are several reasons they cant bulk order all the parts they need, long in advance of when they need them.

1.  the board needs to be tested before the right parts can be ordered.. which means asics need to be back from the fab.  sure, some parts can be 'risk ordered'... ie, hope theyre the right ones.  but since board tweaks, and most likely, part substitutions happen during the 'bring up' phase, you cant place huge orders for parts that you dont definitely know you want.   Some parts can be ordered in advance (eg Power Supplies), which you definitely know you want, however...

2.  cashflow.   the companies that finance their NRE and production via pre-orders do NOT have an excess of spare cash to tie up ordering huge amounts of parts in advance.  cashflow has to be finely balanced.   Most parts suppliers in bitcoinland require cash in advance and credit facilities arent offered to bitcoin companies (because theyre too new... no 3 year audited history.. and also because, quite frankly, bitcoin companies dont pass compliance/credit checks of the parts suppliers so they expect cash in advance).

Also, the companies who have already produced asics in a previous generation (kncminer, bitfury etc).. have already amassed huge cash piles, both of dollars, and bitcoins... and have the firepower needed to do their next asic without requiring huge pre-orders from punters.    Also, some companies are raising external money from VCs or investors.  Some may even IPO..!    The irony is that the only way that customers can guarantee a supply of bitcoin miners is to pre-order them... because the companies that dont need pre-orders and can already afford to pay for their own NRE and production are the companies that can afford to build their own private mines and not ever need the hassle of taking customer money and all the associated customer support overheads.  an asic company that doesnt have a customer support department is a tiny fraction of the size of one that has lots of customers!

Your statement show that I'm not the only one thinking that securing components from time is better than waiting for chips and then buying them from stock.

if youre talking about sp10 versus sp30.. theyre completely different products.   theres little similarity.   the sp10 uses large amounts of small chips, kindof like the antminer/bitfury/asicminer whereas the sp30 uses larger more powerful chips.   has a huge knockon effect on board design (higher power requirement, cooling etc).

Also, since the SP10 was only ever sold from stock (never pre-ordered nor pre-announced) so we didnt know whether its performance on arrival was as simulated as that was never shared with us.  SP had the luxury of delivering an in-stock product, where you know what it does before you sell it so everyone gets what they expected and is extremely happy(!).. whereas the SP30 was a pre-order scenario with high expectations (and risk) from everyone concerned.

Also, as you know... pre-orders as a business model are pretty much over now.  too many punters (AND asic companies) have got burned or scammed and the punters are as much to blame as the asic companies... (many punters play arbitrage games with their preorders, and cancel orders when the bitcoin price drops and becomes more attractive than the miner they ordered.  its a tough market for asic companies to deliver on expectations in the pre-order game, and its tough for customers to trust asic companies.  ergo, the pre-order market is pretty much over.

please explain what you mean (and who?) .. im not getting your inference.

Thank you for another insight on why are pre-orders needed for a new company that already invested in 2 mask sets and on parts for their gen1 miners.

If SP has got asics back that arent running at the same power consumption as they expected from their simulations, they certainly wont be the first asic company to have befallen this problem.  actually the problem is endemic and they cant all be doing it wrong !  perhaps there's something about sha-256 asic designs that cause them to somehow require much higher power consumption than the asic simulations indicate (extreme toggle rates etc).. and it seems theyre not alone in this category (cointerra, bfl, kncminer, asicminer etc).  in fact, i dont know anyone who hasnt significantly underestimated their power consumption from simulation to reality (yes, even the mighty bitfury labelled each chip as 5 GH and when they arrived, they did 2.5 GH).

the knock on effect of the asics requiring more power is that in order to run the asics at the same power and thermal envelope to fit in the box that youve designed, you have to under-volt them, and when running at less voltage than they intended the knockon effect is you get less hash rate than you expected (clockspeed is proportional to voltage).  And due to the pre-order process, you dont find out until just before you ship, which means youre guaranteed to disappoint pre-order customers.

Also, as has happened with others, there just arent enough margins to give everyone more hardware to compensate.  Its not like these things have 100% margin so you cant just double up the supply.  Those days are long gone (avalon maybe even kncminer had great margins, the first time around... but the more recent asic companies have operated on much slimmer margins... and their costs are high because every part theyve ordered has to be on a 'rush' schedule which means everything costs a lot more than if you could give the suppliers the usual 12 weeks to source the parts (an eternity in bitcoinland)

SP is using twin Emerson power supplies in the SP30 box.  Each psu is specced at 1,000 watts for 100-200 volts input, and 1,200 watts at 200+ volts input (europe/israel are 220-240 volts and most data-centers in the world can do 208volts).  SP seem confident they will be able to run them at over their quoted spec (usa domestic power is 120 volts, asia is mostly 100volt etc).  the psus probably have more 'give' in them at higher input voltages so i dont expect the europeans or data centers will have an issue but there's less headroom when running on usa domestic power.

http://www.artesyn.com/power/power-supplies/websheet/401/DS1200

Our thoughts are with SP... hope they get their problems sorted quickly and that they pull magic rabbits out of the hat... All this amidst rocketfire and UN peer pressure.

Just saying i expect delivery as well but I will say this if SP fails  preorders will be officially dead i.e it will be darn near impossible to get pre-orders out of
this community every again or at least in the near term 2-3 years imo.  Which I supposed could be a good thing for our sanity long term.

No need to quote my full post.

Ok a maximum of 2 weeks seems reasonable considering the latest news and it's still on time for their August batch so I'm happy!

Couple days (From YOUR quote) is not within 2 weeks...  Think before you speak please...  I don't doubt they will be here before the 9th, but AFTER the news today you made that post.  Bitcoinarama says what?

I find hard to believe that each chip will pull double the wattage, but we will see.


How many W are you using per month?


But I like/want bigger miners, not ants. I want big ass Hulk miners!


Considering the latest news and the fact that they need to plan more things than before I am expecting my July unit to be in my hands before or on 9 August yes 


YOU will be the one that is disappointed. 9 August!

I can't wait for Roadstress to review his unit Friday or Monday since is he so confident he will have his in a couple of days.  By then we will have official updated specs from SP and an in hand unit that Roadstress will hopefully give a full right up about.