Topic: [ANN] Spondoolies-Tech - carrier grade, data center ready mining rigs - page 545. (Read 1260368 times)

I get in now why he (Zvisha) is so giddy and jocular now.
Perhaps, we will see that magic number (~$100/mo) afterall....(deals in China/SE Asia)?

Well,

tell it loud and clear that SP30s are just for petahash or larger operations with access to 0.02 cents power.

One of the best hosted solution that I know of for just a few units is 90 EUR/kW/month or around 300 USD/month; hosting at home is not feasible for most of us, I pay around 0.34 USD cents per kWh at home!

And while operating costs are a constant, mining revenues are not.

spiccioli

Some people complain SP10 is a bit on the loud side

Ok Zvisha, please answer the question I posed for Guy earlier. Please present the case for Sept. SP30 customers recovering the cost of their purchase. Identify any assumptions you make about network difficulty or other factors and provide a reasonable rationale for them.

I know you are a rational man, now is your chance to show us how the Sept SP30 is likely to recover its cost.

I replaced my mattress with SP10s. Keeps me warm at night.

I know that you are kidding...not hosted-0.12/kwh residential, hosted-best price is $99/kwh/mo, still $240-250/mo, slightly less if a long contract
Anyway, i am comfortable to wait and see how it will turn out.

I am talking science to you but you are just trying to hypnotise me by repeating "it will never ROI". If you don't start talking sense I will have to stop answering.

Why hosted? A real man keeps his miner in his house and uses it for a pillow.  

Before we worry about end of life recovery of operating costs, we need to worry about recovering the capital costs.

It is very unlikely that the September SP30 will ever pay for itself before it operates in the red.

Where this number of $100/mo originated from? This is completely unrealistic anywhere, but in central WA.
$0.12/kwh (with delivery; cheap in Texas)X24hrX30.5 (average days in a mo)X2.4 (isn't SP-30 2.4kw minimum?)=$211/mo. In CA-$500/mo.
Miner itself is not free either. If you point me to how I can reliably host SP-30 for $100/mo for 6mo-1 year, I will probably order another one  

Excellent. Send me 9 btc now, and when the price doubles, I'll send you 6 btc.

Just for the sake of my love to math (and this is the last post I will write in the subject of ROI):

Let's assume fixed BTC price for ease of math. We don't really know where it will be in 1 year.

In order for the SP30 to become non-profitable, it has to mine less then 100$ a month.
Today it would mine about 2000$ per month.
That means the difficulty rose by factor of 20.
That means that the network difficulty is around 2400PH, so someone have manufactured over 2300PH of miners.
Lets assume, for fun sake, that our competitor starts using today 16nm technology to make 10TH miners for 2000$  and he is building data-centers (let's say the data-centers are build for free, and there are no cooling expenses, because this competitor is a polar bear with his own construction company).
He will have to create ~230,000 of those 10TH miners and it will cost him (just the miners!) 460 million$. Let's assume the bear is taking a loan of 480M$ from the penguins for 5% annual interest.

And if SP30 6TH mines makes 100$ a month, this 10TH polar bear miner makes 180$ per month.
Let's assume electricity costs of 100$ per this miner (that covers DC IT, power etc` - really efficient bear that is) - this means each miner makes 80$ profit per month till autumn 2015, when we have the split. Each miner made ~1000$, didn't even ROI. Now miner makes just 90$ and doesn't cover the maintenance. Now the penguins are coming for the bear and saying like "Yo, bear, where is our dough?" and the bear is like "What are you talking about? That was other bear, guys, I am a tourist" and they are like "You have a T-shirt from the BTC conference, that is you, give us your private key". And he is like "I am sorry, I didn't compute the ROI of the 260,000 that I build, let's work out some deal" and they are like "no deal for you bear, get the f**k from Iceland"

Now I have to go to sleep, please upgrade to latest FW 1.4.8, the best FW for SP10 miner ever made.

i have now closed the p2pool nodes for Israel and Iceland. no point maintaining them if moderators delete threads relating to it.

apologies (on behalf of BCTalk) to those who were mining on them or had them as failover.

This

What is your experence of the hash rates reported by the Cgminer API for the SP10 miner?
What could the explaination be when a SP10 miner display 1418 GH/s in the web interface, but connecting to the Cgminer API, the response is 1320 GH/s ("MHS 5s" and "MHS av" around 1320000 all the time).

While I think in the foreseable future it will be somethink like electricity price + ~20% as the lowest possible margin for new hardware investments,
the assertion presented by Roadstress is technically viable and could become reality.

Anyway, exciting times!

This is where you are wrong again. I think that in the future mining will not be economically sustainable and it will run on the red sustained by companies/parties that have an interest in the blockchain security/other features. Just like every website owner has to pay for a webserver which isn't directly economically sustainable, but indirectly, the same can apply to bitcoin mining. I imagine that BitPay affords to pay 100k/year for electricity just to run X number of Th/s or Ph/s without buying the hardware and even if the miners are running on red.

Mining is economical.

Every rig I own earns back money, all my previous rigs reached ROI.

Aslong as current miners make back electricity + X, it is economical, even if new hardware cost was 10 times what it is now, and only stupid people would buy new hardware.
They would still have it running in the hope of achieving ROI, and therefore supporting the network.

Spondoolies prices their hardware somewhere between supply & demand and projected ROI.

Do you know what hardware prices will be in September? How can you claim that it will not reach ROI or is overpriced?
Do you know that every business wants to gain a profit from its sales?

If not enough people buy in at this price, it will naturally be lowered.

If you are upset about hardware prices, go bug BFL, AM (especially for previous devices), BlackArrow, Cointerra, HashFast. After that you can come back and whine how you want lower prices.

In ever decreasing amounts asymptotically approaching 0. And you are likely to compound your losses by the cost of operating your equipment at a loss.

Perhaps you don't care about losses.

But mining needs to be economically sustainable if the network is going to survive.

With low enough power costs and high enough efficiency miners can produce/earn Bitcoin until the "end of time".

If I think my miner returns 6 Bitcoin (after hosting...) vs 9 spent Bitcoin and the Bitcoin price has doubled during mining, I would consider it a positive ROI.
If my miner returns 24 Bitcoin (after hosting...) vs 9 spent Bitcoin and the Bitcoin price has halved during mining, I would consider it a positive ROI.

If the difficulty gets so high i can´t pay the powerbill for the miner, and this continues until the miner is non operatable, I shall consider it as a loss if I haven´t mined enough dollar / bitcoin equivalent back with this device, and i will sell the server PSUs.

Hint: I am not buying a September sp30.
       I don´t think it has no chance of ROI
       I don´t think (pure voodoo projected) ROI is the factor for pricing. It is supply and demand. If the market decides it is going to purchase all September production for 20k / sp30, spondoolies should price it as such.